Uprising in Egypt Splitting the Conservatives in the US

[NYcarbineer]

I need you to be clear here: is your point if we don't involve ourselves in every evil, we must not involve ourselves in any?

Or, was your post merely the equivalent of flailing around looking for a reponse?

My point was to answer your insistence that:

American cannot allow there to be a holocaust in Israel.

​

You haven't explained why, besides offering a trite poem. If there was to be the start of a holocaust in Israel, would it be a proper response to say "We involved ourselves in Bosnia - we cannot be involved in every evil".

???

When you can explain why it would be America's burden to not "allow" there to be a holocaust in Israel, please be brave enough to put it into a post.

because you asswiped ignorant dumbass, America supports democracy. Israel is a democracy and an ally. God they grow you guys dumb don't they?

Israel is an ally? How much blood has Israel shed in our wars? How much blood has Israel shed fighting alongside American boys?

Israel is not an ally. Israel is a dependent.

 

[M14 Shooter]

My point was to answer your insistence that:

American cannot allow there to be a holocaust in Israel.

​

You haven't explained why, besides offering a trite poem. If there was to be the start of a holocaust in Israel, would it be a proper response to say "We involved ourselves in Bosnia - we cannot be involved in every evil".

???

When you can explain why it would be America's burden to not "allow" there to be a holocaust in Israel, please be brave enough to put it into a post.

because you asswiped ignorant dumbass, America supports democracy. Israel is a democracy and an ally. God they grow you guys dumb don't they?

Israel is an ally? How much blood has Israel shed in our wars? How much blood has Israel shed fighting alongside American boys?

False premise, that this is only relevant standard by which an ally can be judged.
But then, when you're you, you really don't have much choice but to put up straw men.

I laugh at you,. Ha.

 

[NYcarbineer]

because you asswiped ignorant dumbass, America supports democracy. Israel is a democracy and an ally. God they grow you guys dumb don't they?

Israel is an ally? How much blood has Israel shed in our wars? How much blood has Israel shed fighting alongside American boys?

False premise, that this is only relevant standard by which an ally can be judged.
But then, when you're you, you really don't have much choice but to put up straw men.

I laugh at you,. Ha.

Then tell us what makes Israel an ally.

 

[georgephillip]

"The United States has seven major non-NATO allies in the Greater Middle East region. These allies are Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Israel, Kuwait, Pakistan, and Morocco. Israel and Egypt are leading recipients of foreign aid, receiving 2.75 billion[18] and 1.75 billion[19] in 2010.

"United States has invested several hundred billion dollars in re-building Iraq's infrastructure and military in the aftermath of 2003 invasion of Iraq.[20] Turkey is host to approximately 90 B61 nuclear bombs at Incirlik Air Base.[21] Other allies include Qatar, where 3,500 US troops are based.[22]

"The U.S. has built a non-NATO alliance with Pakistan to assist with the War in Afghanistan and jointly combat terror in the subcontinent."

If it's true that Israel has never officially declared her borders, it would be impossible under international law for the US to enter into a legal treaty with her. Without a treaty, I believe, any alliance would be informal at most.

Wiki - Foreign police...

 

[jgarden]

"The United States has seven major non-NATO allies in the Greater Middle East region. These allies are Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Israel, Kuwait, Pakistan, and Morocco. Israel and Egypt are leading recipients of foreign aid, receiving 2.75 billion[18] and 1.75 billion[19] in 2010.

"United States has invested several hundred billion dollars in re-building Iraq's infrastructure and military in the aftermath of 2003 invasion of Iraq.[20] Turkey is host to approximately 90 B61 nuclear bombs at Incirlik Air Base.[21] Other allies include Qatar, where 3,500 US troops are based.[22]

"The U.S. has built a non-NATO alliance with Pakistan to assist with the War in Afghanistan and jointly combat terror in the subcontinent."

If it's true that Israel has never officially declared her borders, it would be impossible under international law for the US to enter into a legal treaty with her. Without a treaty, I believe, any alliance would be informal at most.

Wiki - Foreign police...

America has traditionally aligned itself with repressive dictatorships whose only redeeming features have been that they were anti-communists - and more recently, anti-Muslem fundamentalists.

Unfortunately, American "foreign aid" is often nothing more than a euphemism for the provision of US military weapons used to maintain these unpopular regimes in power.

As in the case of the Shah of Iran, Pakistan's Gen. Pervez Musharraf and Egypt's Hosni Munbarak, all these regimes have a limited lifespan, hastened by their younger generation's demand for change.

Whatever short/middle-term advantages those regimes were able to deliver to the US comes with a longer-term price that can last for generations resulting from the hostility generated by American sponsored dictatorships

 

[FactFinder]

Jeez, how much would we reduce the deficit if we stopped all these overseas ventures? I personally can't see one material benefit to giving Egypt or any foreign country aid. Are we still in Germany, if so why?

 

[jgarden]

because you asswiped ignorant dumbass, America supports democracy. Israel is a democracy and an ally. God they grow you guys dumb don't they?

- asswiped
- ignorant
- dumbass
- dumb

US Message Board portrays "Politics" as an opportunity to "Discuss government policies and candidates..."

"WillowTree" should not confuse "discuss(ion)" with repeated "verbal abuse!"

 

[Barb]

In 2001 it had overwhelming support when we wanted to teach Osama Bin Laden and those responsible a lesson. Even the leader of the Taliban Mullah Mohammed Omar had no idea of the plans for 9/11 or what Osama was doing behind the scenes. Yes he shouldn't have protected him all along, but it's clear to me that the purpose of the war in 2001 was FAR different than the purpose of the war in 2009 and beyond.

Those responsible for 9/11 were either long gone from Afghanistan or dead in 2009, so it's been a pointless war for quite awhile and yet the "anti-war" crowd is still nowhere to be found. Again because they weren't anti-war, they were democrats posing as such.

They weren't anti war. They were anti anything that Bush did.

That is why we are continually hearing "Bush did the same thing" everytime an Obama hypocrisy is pointed out..

What they dont realize is....Bush never said he would do differently. Obama ran on a platform of promising to do differently.

Obama pledged during the campaign to begin withdrawing troops from Iraq within 16 months of taking office. The actual drawdown date was 19 months. So he was three months off.

He pledged to send two additional combat brigades to Afghanistan to fight the insurgency there. He sent about 4 times that amount.

The committed anti-war crowd knew from the start that Obama was not going to end either war immediately - he said as much in his own platform.

The committed Bush crowd knew from the start that they would oppose whatever Obama did, for the sake of opposition.

Additionally, the platform Bush initially ran on was vastly different than what he did in office. He ran against "nation building," remember.

 

[saveliberty]

Don't know how many of you have been in a political office before, I can tell you from experience you rarely make friends and definitely accumulate enemies with every big decision you make. Multiply that 1,000 fold at the international level.

Instead of floating absurd claims, try remembering the massive food distribution we do 365 days a year.

 

[Synthaholic]

"...trite poem."

"First they came…" is a famous statement attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) about the inactivity of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after group. The text of the quotation is usually presented roughly as follows:

First They came... - Pastor Martin Niemoller

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
First they came? - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"...trite poem."

Many times expedience and the constraints of time and space direct us to use a kind of cultural shorthand, a word or phrase- or a poem, an iconic quote, whose meaning and significance everyone understands.

At least when one assumes a level of humanity and education, it is expected that every such person understands.

Then there is you.

The jaw-dropping level of ignorance, of intellectual isolation that you evice in critquing the Niemöller work as 'some trite poem' is astounding, both because you show that you don't understand it, its significance, and that you admit your befuddlement.

"...trite poem."

It means we stand up for our fellow man, for humanity.

The saving grace here is that you are clearly a message-board mannequin, and as such, serve as a reason to post correct information to counter the jujune and empty missives of yours.

You picked the wrong name. Troglodyte would be more appropriate.

In your ham-hands, it becomes a trite poem, because you are using it to try to bolster a flawed argument.

Amazing that you can spend so much time deflecting over a poem, instead of directly answering why "American cannot allow there to be a holocaust in Israel."

Would you like the opportunity to actually defend your ignorant statement, or do you want to retract it?

Of course, you are also free to continue deflecting. And insulting me - it seems to be all you have!

Well, I believe I'll take you up on that suggestion:

First, let me make you feel at home, I’ll speak to you in the language you are most familiar with:

sit-stay-roll over.

Outside of this, and based on the level of understanding that you have shown up to now, explaining this complex discussion to you would be like putting an elevator in an out-house.

It would be a waste of perfectly good electrons.

Then your statement that:

"American cannot allow there to be a holocaust in Israel."
​

shall sit there undefended, as it should be.

In the future, think before you type out these unsupportable brain droppings. Thinking people will call you out on your mindlessness every time.

Dismissed.

 

[sangha]

In your ham-hands, it becomes a trite poem, because you are using it to try to bolster a flawed argument.

Amazing that you can spend so much time deflecting over a poem, instead of directly answering why "American cannot allow there to be a holocaust in Israel."

Would you like the opportunity to actually defend your ignorant statement, or do you want to retract it?

Of course, you are also free to continue deflecting. And insulting me - it seems to be all you have!

Well, I believe I'll take you up on that suggestion:

First, let me make you feel at home, I’ll speak to you in the language you are most familiar with:

sit-stay-roll over.

Outside of this, and based on the level of understanding that you have shown up to now, explaining this complex discussion to you would be like putting an elevator in an out-house.

It would be a waste of perfectly good electrons.

Then your statement that:

"American cannot allow there to be a holocaust in Israel."
​

shall sit there undefended, as it should be.

In the future, think before you type out these unsupportable brain droppings. Thinking people will call you out on your mindlessness every time.

Dismissed.

Did you actually think that PC might defend anything she says? Like with facts and arguments?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

All she can do is cut and paste articles she gloms off the web. When challenged, she will curse and claim that you can't understand the issue. It's what she does

PC is very predictable. She is just too scared to defend her own words

"American cannot allow there to be a holocaust in Israel."

She will never defend her own words. She claimed it had something to do with Israel being democratic, but she never explained why we can allow a holocaust in Sudan, which is also democratic

 

[saveliberty]

Mubarak resigned from the ruling party today. Things are progressing.

 

[Synthaholic]

Well, I believe I'll take you up on that suggestion:

First, let me make you feel at home, I’ll speak to you in the language you are most familiar with:

sit-stay-roll over.

Outside of this, and based on the level of understanding that you have shown up to now, explaining this complex discussion to you would be like putting an elevator in an out-house.

It would be a waste of perfectly good electrons.

Then your statement that:

"American cannot allow there to be a holocaust in Israel."
​

shall sit there undefended, as it should be.

In the future, think before you type out these unsupportable brain droppings. Thinking people will call you out on your mindlessness every time.

Dismissed.

Did you actually think that PC might defend anything she says? Like with facts and arguments?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

All she can do is cut and paste articles she gloms off the web. When challenged, she will curse and claim that you can't understand the issue. It's what she does

PC is very predictable. She is just too scared to defend her own words

"American cannot allow there to be a holocaust in Israel."

She will never defend her own words. She claimed it had something to do with Israel being democratic, but she never explained why we can allow a holocaust in Sudan, which is also democratic

I was really expecting quotes from Ann Coulter, but I guess she couldn't find any.

But I think it was WillowTree who pitched the democracy angle. It was a wild pitch, she hit the batter, and walked in the winning run.

Oh, well.

 

[sangha]

Then your statement that:

"American cannot allow there to be a holocaust in Israel."
​

shall sit there undefended, as it should be.

In the future, think before you type out these unsupportable brain droppings. Thinking people will call you out on your mindlessness every time.

Dismissed.

Did you actually think that PC might defend anything she says? Like with facts and arguments?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

All she can do is cut and paste articles she gloms off the web. When challenged, she will curse and claim that you can't understand the issue. It's what she does

PC is very predictable. She is just too scared to defend her own words

"American cannot allow there to be a holocaust in Israel."

She will never defend her own words. She claimed it had something to do with Israel being democratic, but she never explained why we can allow a holocaust in Sudan, which is also democratic

I was really expecting quotes from Ann Coulter, but I guess she couldn't find any.

But I think it was WillowTree who pitched the democracy angle. It was a wild pitch, she hit the batter, and walked in the winning run.

Oh, well.

It was WT and not PC? My bad

I have trouble telling the wingnut harpies apart from each other. They all sound (whiny) the same to me

 

[saveliberty]

Then your statement that:

"American cannot allow there to be a holocaust in Israel."
​

shall sit there undefended, as it should be.

In the future, think before you type out these unsupportable brain droppings. Thinking people will call you out on your mindlessness every time.

Dismissed.

I have no doubt we would respond swiftly and decisively to a direct attack on Israel.

 

[PoliticalChic]

In your ham-hands, it becomes a trite poem, because you are using it to try to bolster a flawed argument.

Amazing that you can spend so much time deflecting over a poem, instead of directly answering why "American cannot allow there to be a holocaust in Israel."

Would you like the opportunity to actually defend your ignorant statement, or do you want to retract it?

Of course, you are also free to continue deflecting. And insulting me - it seems to be all you have!

Well, I believe I'll take you up on that suggestion:

First, let me make you feel at home, I’ll speak to you in the language you are most familiar with:

sit-stay-roll over.

Outside of this, and based on the level of understanding that you have shown up to now, explaining this complex discussion to you would be like putting an elevator in an out-house.

It would be a waste of perfectly good electrons.

Then your statement that:

"American cannot allow there to be a holocaust in Israel."
​

shall sit there undefended, as it should be.

In the future, think before you type out these unsupportable brain droppings. Thinking people will call you out on your mindlessness every time.

Dismissed.

Do you know any thinking people?

And, if so, don't you feel left out?

 

[georgephillip]

Mubarak resigned from the ruling party today. Things are progressing.

Juan Cole lists ten accomplishments for Egypt's pro-Democracy side:

"1. The hundreds of thousands (the Egyptian Arabic press is saying a million nationwide) of demonstrators showed that they had not been cowed by the vicious attacks of Ministry of Interior goons on Wednesday and Thursday, which killed 7 and wounded over 1,000.

"2. By their determination and steadfastness, they put the Egyptian army in the position of having to protect them from further attacks by the petty criminals and plainclothes secret police deployed by the Interior Ministry. The alternative would have been a bloodbath that could have destabilized the country and would have attracted further international condemnation.

"3. They showed that they still have substantial momentum and that the cosmetic changes made in the government (switching out corrupt businessmen for authoritarian generals as cabinet ministers) have not actually met their demands for reform.

"4. They showed that they are a broad-based, multi-class movement, with working-class Egyptians clearly making up a significant proportion of the crowd in Tahrir Square.

"5. They demonstrated that they are a nation-wide movement, bringing hundreds of thousands out in Alexandria, Suez, Ismailiya, Mansoura, Luxor, Aswan and elsewhere.

"6. They put pressure on the Obama administration to hold Mubarak’s feet to the fire about an early departure.

"7. They so reassured Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan that they are the future of Egypt that he took the risk of calling for Mubarak to step down.

"8. By making a Mubarak departure seem sure, they tempted new presidential candidates into the arena, as with the Secretary General of the Arab League, Amr Moussa, who visited the crowds at Tahrir Square to some acclaim.

"9. The optimism created by crowd actions caused Nobel prize winner Mohamed Elbaradei to make an about-face and affirm that he would be willing to run for president if drafted.

"10. Gave cover to to Ayman Nur of the Tomorrow (Ghad) Party and other leaders of opposition political parties to continue to demand Mubarak’s departure."

Change is coming in Egypt.

Jordan next?

 

[Synthaholic]

Then your statement that:

"American cannot allow there to be a holocaust in Israel."
​

shall sit there undefended, as it should be.

In the future, think before you type out these unsupportable brain droppings. Thinking people will call you out on your mindlessness every time.

Dismissed.

I have no doubt we would respond swiftly and decisively to a direct attack on Israel.

No doubt. I agree.

 

[Synthaholic]

February 3, 2011
An Exit Plan for Mubarak

By TAREK MASOUD

*snip*

This would no doubt disappoint those who want to put Mr. Mubarak on the next plane to Saudi Arabia, but there are two risks associated with his leaving so abruptly. The first is that the demonstrations might diminish or dissipate, leaving Mr. ElBaradei and his coalition trying to negotiate with the military or Vice President Omar Suleiman without the force of the crowds behind them.

The second risk stems from the Egyptian Constitution, which gives the power to dissolve Parliament and call new elections only to an elected president. Mr. Mubarak’s successor, as an acting president, would be specifically prohibited from getting the parliamentary elections under way. A new Parliament is crucial to democratic reform, because only Parliament has the power to defang the Egyptian presidency, stripping it of its dictatorial powers through constitutional amendment. The current Parliament — bought and paid for by Mr. Mubarak’s National Democratic Party — is not fit for that task.


Egypt’s next scheduled presidential election is only months away. If the Constitution isn’t amended before it is held, the notorious Article 76, which makes it difficult for independents like Mr. ElBaradei to get on the ballot, will still be in place. More important, the new president would have the same imperial powers Mr. Mubarak has had — the very powers that the Egyptian public wants taken away.


The constitutionally sanctioned timeline would be this: Mr. Mubarak dissolves Parliament, forcing a new election within 60 days (international observers would be required to make sure the election is fair). Once the new Parliament is seated, Mr. Mubarak resigns, and an acting president, probably the new Parliament’s speaker, takes charge until a new president is elected. The new Parliament would work around the clock to amend the Constitution in ways that would put Mr. Suleiman or any would-be strongman out of a job. The final step is a national referendum on the amendments.

*snip*

Tarek Masoud is an assistant professor of public policy at the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard.

 

[jgarden]

Glenn Beck's Egypt Freakout: How the Uprising Splits U.S. Conservatives - The Daily Beast

Glenn Beck needs to take a long hard look at the kind of "social justice" the pro Mubarak "supporters" (aka hired thugs, plain clothes police) are providing out on the streets to allow one, old, discredited dictator to cling to power.

Even ths US State Department has concluded that this is all nothing more than a government coordinated effort to intimidate the Egyptian people and the foreign press - including assaulting FOXNEWS own reporters.

Let Beck put his consersative theories to the test by replacing his collegues and attempt to "dialogue" with the pro-Mubarak supporters out on the streets of Cairo - and see how long he lasts!

His attempt to connect the Muslim Brotherhood with the "left" in the minds of his television audience has no basis in fact - not that Beck really cares!

Footnote: Extreme fundamentalists, like the Muslim Brotherhood, are no more interested in "social justice" than the current Mubarak regime. Mubarak and the Muslim Brotherhood have far more in common than with the average protester.

Even John McCain, John Boehner and Mitch McConnell approve of Obama's handling of the situation.