Unrest reported in Libya

[L.K.Eder]

The plot thickens

Qatar admits sending hundreds of troops to support Libya rebels

Qatari chief-of-staff reveals extent of involvment, saying troops were responsible for training, communications and strategy

The revelation came as Qatar hosted a conference on the post-Gaddafi era that was attended by the leader of Libya's ruling National Transitional Council, Mustafa Abdel-Jalil, who described the Qataris as having planned the battles that paved the way for victory.

Qatari special forces are reported to have provided infantry training to Libyan fighters in the western Nafusa mountains and in eastern Libya. Qatar's military even brought Libyan rebels back to Doha for exercises. And in the final assault on Gaddafi's Bab al-Aziziya compound in Tripoli in late August, Qatari special forces were seen on the frontline. Qatar also gave $400m to the rebels, helped them export oil from Benghazi and set up a TV station in Doha.

Libyan gratitude is clear. The maroon and white flag of Qatar is often flown at celebrations and Algeria Square in central Tripoli has been renamed Qatar Square in honour of the country's support in toppling Gaddafi. Some, however, express concern at the emirate's support for Islamist elements such as the 17 February Martyrs Brigade, one of the most influential rebel formations, led by Abdel-Hakim Belhaj.

Qatar admits sending hundreds of troops to support Libya rebels | World news | The Guardian

qatari influence by money and military was not a secret.

 

[alexa]

The plot thickens

Qatar admits sending hundreds of troops to support Libya rebels

Qatari chief-of-staff reveals extent of involvment, saying troops were responsible for training, communications and strategy

The revelation came as Qatar hosted a conference on the post-Gaddafi era that was attended by the leader of Libya's ruling National Transitional Council, Mustafa Abdel-Jalil, who described the Qataris as having planned the battles that paved the way for victory.

Qatari special forces are reported to have provided infantry training to Libyan fighters in the western Nafusa mountains and in eastern Libya. Qatar's military even brought Libyan rebels back to Doha for exercises. And in the final assault on Gaddafi's Bab al-Aziziya compound in Tripoli in late August, Qatari special forces were seen on the frontline. Qatar also gave $400m to the rebels, helped them export oil from Benghazi and set up a TV station in Doha.

Libyan gratitude is clear. The maroon and white flag of Qatar is often flown at celebrations and Algeria Square in central Tripoli has been renamed Qatar Square in honour of the country's support in toppling Gaddafi. Some, however, express concern at the emirate's support for Islamist elements such as the 17 February Martyrs Brigade, one of the most influential rebel formations, led by Abdel-Hakim Belhaj.

Qatar admits sending hundreds of troops to support Libya rebels | World news | The Guardian

qatari influence by money and military was not a secret.

I don't remember hearing anything about it and we were told Res 1973 was about trying to protect civilians and was about a no fly zone and definitely not about going in on the ground.

So tell me the non secret I missed We were told we doing a no fly zone because Gaddafi was committing genocide and had decided on his troops raping as an act of war.

 

[L.K.Eder]

The plot thickens




Qatar admits sending hundreds of troops to support Libya rebels | World news | The Guardian

qatari influence by money and military was not a secret.

I don't remember hearing anything about it and we were told Res 1973 was about trying to protect civilians and was about a no fly zone and definitely not about going in on the ground.

So tell me the non secret I missed We were told we doing a no fly zone because Gaddafi was committing genocide and had decided on his troops raping as an act of war.

qatar was in it from the beginning.

the extent regarding troops on the ground was a "secret".

rebels were trained by qatar, egypt, the us etc.

 

[alexa]

qatari influence by money and military was not a secret.

I don't remember hearing anything about it and we were told Res 1973 was about trying to protect civilians and was about a no fly zone and definitely not about going in on the ground.

So tell me the non secret I missed We were told we doing a no fly zone because Gaddafi was committing genocide and had decided on his troops raping as an act of war.

qatar was in it from the beginning.

the extent regarding troops on the ground was a "secret".

rebels were trained by qatar, egypt, the us etc.

I must have missed that. I heard the Arab States were going to be involved and that they then didn't get involved. The first line of the article was

Qatar has admitted for the first time that it sent hundreds of troops to support the Libyan rebels who overthrew Muammar Gaddafi's regime.

Weren't troops on the ground always supposed to be a no no by everyone?

Edit: I do though remember hearing hush, hush, that we had sent in one or two people to advise them and give them some training

 

[L.K.Eder]

I don't remember hearing anything about it and we were told Res 1973 was about trying to protect civilians and was about a no fly zone and definitely not about going in on the ground.

So tell me the non secret I missed We were told we doing a no fly zone because Gaddafi was committing genocide and had decided on his troops raping as an act of war.

qatar was in it from the beginning.

the extent regarding troops on the ground was a "secret".

rebels were trained by qatar, egypt, the us etc.

I must have missed that. I heard the Arab States were going to be involved and that they then didn't get involved. The first line of the article was

Qatar has admitted for the first time that it sent hundreds of troops to support the Libyan rebels who overthrew Muammar Gaddafi's regime.

Weren't troops on the ground always supposed to be a no no by everyone?

Edit: I do though remember hearing hush, hush, that we had sent in one or two people to advise them and give them some training

just for starters:
qatar was the second country after france to recognize the rebels "government".

Qatar Recognizes Libyan Rebel Council - WSJ.com

and al jazeera is from qatar.

they documented this and qatar's involvement extensively.

granted, the boots on the ground were kind of a secret.

 

[alexa]

qatar was in it from the beginning.

the extent regarding troops on the ground was a "secret".

rebels were trained by qatar, egypt, the us etc.

I must have missed that. I heard the Arab States were going to be involved and that they then didn't get involved. The first line of the article was

Qatar has admitted for the first time that it sent hundreds of troops to support the Libyan rebels who overthrew Muammar Gaddafi's regime.

Weren't troops on the ground always supposed to be a no no by everyone?

Edit: I do though remember hearing hush, hush, that we had sent in one or two people to advise them and give them some training

just for starters:
qatar was the second country after france to recognize the rebels "government".

Qatar Recognizes Libyan Rebel Council - WSJ.com

and al jazeera is from qatar.

they documented this and qatar's involvement extensively.

granted, the boots on the ground were kind of a secret.

Fair enough, I obviously wasn't listening to Al Jazzera on this. There is a lot about this that I think we need yet to know. In fact I was reading an article which was pushing this as the West's reaction to the recession today and I am sure I was reading that at Al Jazeera.

Edit: To be honest your link just says

Qatar's Foreign Ministry has officially recognized the Benghazi-based Interim Transitional National Council as the "sole legitimate representative of the Libyan people," making the small Gulf Arab nation the first country in the Middle East to formally switch its alliance away from Col. Moammar Gadhafi to the Libyan opposition, according to Qatari officials.

Since the antigovernment protests in Tunisia back in December, Qatar has been leading the region in its support for a wave of popular uprisings, through its government-financed al-Jazeera news channel and through humanitarian and other

Most countries were recognising the rebels. This gives me no hint that they are on the ground, organising things and even leading on the front line. I don't think I heard anything to suggest they had such a significant and major part in it before. I had been thinking it was just the West.

 

[L.K.Eder]

I must have missed that. I heard the Arab States were going to be involved and that they then didn't get involved. The first line of the article was

Weren't troops on the ground always supposed to be a no no by everyone?

Edit: I do though remember hearing hush, hush, that we had sent in one or two people to advise them and give them some training

just for starters:
qatar was the second country after france to recognize the rebels "government".

Qatar Recognizes Libyan Rebel Council - WSJ.com

and al jazeera is from qatar.

they documented this and qatar's involvement extensively.

granted, the boots on the ground were kind of a secret.

Fair enough, I obviously wasn't listening to Al Jazzera on this. There is a lot about this that I think we need yet to know. In fact I was reading an article which was pushing this as the West's reaction to the recession today and I am sure I was reading that at Al Jazeera.

Edit: To be honest your link just says

Qatar's Foreign Ministry has officially recognized the Benghazi-based Interim Transitional National Council as the "sole legitimate representative of the Libyan people," making the small Gulf Arab nation the first country in the Middle East to formally switch its alliance away from Col. Moammar Gadhafi to the Libyan opposition, according to Qatari officials.

Since the antigovernment protests in Tunisia back in December, Qatar has been leading the region in its support for a wave of popular uprisings, through its government-financed al-Jazeera news channel and through humanitarian and other

Most countries were recognising the rebels. This gives me no hint that they are on the ground, organising things and even leading on the front line. I don't think I heard anything to suggest they had such a significant and major part in it before. I had been thinking it was just the West.

that was just for starters.

they were very open in their support.

they were 2nd in recognizing. in march!

they followed up with setting up a tv station, treating wounded rebels in qatar, and training rebels.

qatar sent fighter jets

Qatar Sending Fighter Jets to Help Enforce Libya No-Fly Zone - Defense News

but, to repeat.

the extent of troops on the ground was not reported

 

[alexa]

just for starters:
qatar was the second country after france to recognize the rebels "government".

Qatar Recognizes Libyan Rebel Council - WSJ.com

and al jazeera is from qatar.

they documented this and qatar's involvement extensively.

granted, the boots on the ground were kind of a secret.

Fair enough, I obviously wasn't listening to Al Jazzera on this. There is a lot about this that I think we need yet to know. In fact I was reading an article which was pushing this as the West's reaction to the recession today and I am sure I was reading that at Al Jazeera.

Edit: To be honest your link just says

Qatar's Foreign Ministry has officially recognized the Benghazi-based Interim Transitional National Council as the "sole legitimate representative of the Libyan people," making the small Gulf Arab nation the first country in the Middle East to formally switch its alliance away from Col. Moammar Gadhafi to the Libyan opposition, according to Qatari officials.

Since the antigovernment protests in Tunisia back in December, Qatar has been leading the region in its support for a wave of popular uprisings, through its government-financed al-Jazeera news channel and through humanitarian and other

Most countries were recognising the rebels. This gives me no hint that they are on the ground, organising things and even leading on the front line. I don't think I heard anything to suggest they had such a significant and major part in it before. I had been thinking it was just the West.

that was just for starters.

they were very open in their support.

they were 2nd in recognizing. in march!

they followed up with setting up a tv station, treating wounded rebels in qatar, and training rebels.

qatar sent fighter jets

Qatar Sending Fighter Jets to Help Enforce Libya No-Fly Zone - Defense News

but, to repeat.

the extent of troops on the ground was not reported

OK I should have known about the planes. I still thought no troops were allowed. I think it's right that none were allowed by Re 1973.

It is going to be interesting seeing how this eventually pan's out.

The independent carried an article early on saying Amnesty/HRW said there was no evidence of genocide or Gaddafi's troops using rape as a war tactic. I cannot help being interested in what the real reason for this was but now I am off to sleep

 

[High_Gravity]

The plot thickens

Qatar admits sending hundreds of troops to support Libya rebels

Qatari chief-of-staff reveals extent of involvment, saying troops were responsible for training, communications and strategy

The revelation came as Qatar hosted a conference on the post-Gaddafi era that was attended by the leader of Libya's ruling National Transitional Council, Mustafa Abdel-Jalil, who described the Qataris as having planned the battles that paved the way for victory.

Qatari special forces are reported to have provided infantry training to Libyan fighters in the western Nafusa mountains and in eastern Libya. Qatar's military even brought Libyan rebels back to Doha for exercises. And in the final assault on Gaddafi's Bab al-Aziziya compound in Tripoli in late August, Qatari special forces were seen on the frontline. Qatar also gave $400m to the rebels, helped them export oil from Benghazi and set up a TV station in Doha.

Libyan gratitude is clear. The maroon and white flag of Qatar is often flown at celebrations and Algeria Square in central Tripoli has been renamed Qatar Square in honour of the country's support in toppling Gaddafi. Some, however, express concern at the emirate's support for Islamist elements such as the 17 February Martyrs Brigade, one of the most influential rebel formations, led by Abdel-Hakim Belhaj.

Qatar admits sending hundreds of troops to support Libya rebels | World news | The Guardian

Thats nothing new, the Arab league hated Gaddafi and wanted him gone. Bahrain and Oman also helped arm the rebels and Egypt was flowing weapons over the border to them, several Arab countries also sent fighter jets.

 

[High_Gravity]

Fair enough, I obviously wasn't listening to Al Jazzera on this. There is a lot about this that I think we need yet to know. In fact I was reading an article which was pushing this as the West's reaction to the recession today and I am sure I was reading that at Al Jazeera.

Edit: To be honest your link just says

Most countries were recognising the rebels. This gives me no hint that they are on the ground, organising things and even leading on the front line. I don't think I heard anything to suggest they had such a significant and major part in it before. I had been thinking it was just the West.

that was just for starters.

they were very open in their support.

they were 2nd in recognizing. in march!

they followed up with setting up a tv station, treating wounded rebels in qatar, and training rebels.

qatar sent fighter jets

Qatar Sending Fighter Jets to Help Enforce Libya No-Fly Zone - Defense News

but, to repeat.

the extent of troops on the ground was not reported

OK I should have known about the planes. I still thought no troops were allowed. I think it's right that none were allowed by Re 1973.

It is going to be interesting seeing how this eventually pan's out.

The independent carried an article early on saying Amnesty/HRW said there was no evidence of genocide or Gaddafi's troops using rape as a war tactic. I cannot help being interested in what the real reason for this was but now I am off to sleep

Most of the work on the ground was still done by Libyans, it would take more than few hundred Qatari troops to overthrow Gaddafi.

 

[alexa]

The plot thickens

Qatar admits sending hundreds of troops to support Libya rebels

Qatari chief-of-staff reveals extent of involvment, saying troops were responsible for training, communications and strategy

The revelation came as Qatar hosted a conference on the post-Gaddafi era that was attended by the leader of Libya's ruling National Transitional Council, Mustafa Abdel-Jalil, who described the Qataris as having planned the battles that paved the way for victory.

Qatari special forces are reported to have provided infantry training to Libyan fighters in the western Nafusa mountains and in eastern Libya. Qatar's military even brought Libyan rebels back to Doha for exercises. And in the final assault on Gaddafi's Bab al-Aziziya compound in Tripoli in late August, Qatari special forces were seen on the frontline. Qatar also gave $400m to the rebels, helped them export oil from Benghazi and set up a TV station in Doha.

Libyan gratitude is clear. The maroon and white flag of Qatar is often flown at celebrations and Algeria Square in central Tripoli has been renamed Qatar Square in honour of the country's support in toppling Gaddafi. Some, however, express concern at the emirate's support for Islamist elements such as the 17 February Martyrs Brigade, one of the most influential rebel formations, led by Abdel-Hakim Belhaj.

Qatar admits sending hundreds of troops to support Libya rebels | World news | The Guardian

Thats nothing new, the Arab league hated Gaddafi and wanted him gone. Bahrain and Oman also helped arm the rebels and Egypt was flowing weapons over the border to them, several Arab countries also sent fighter jets.

I have to imagine that this wasn't all caused by me not paying attention because I was at times very interested and watching for quite long spells on News 24. I suspect our media have been making a low profile of this.

The Arab League were supposed to be in agreement with NATO doing a no fly zone and were going to be a part of it...but then where are their planes was all I heard. Several times I heard questions or comments about how they had not followed up on their intention to join in the 'no fly' zone and yes, I knew Gaddafi was not liked, not one of the Old Boys so to speak.

I also know there are several resources and reasons why people might want to oust Gaddafi and change the situation. I just can't get away from the fact that the British Public were fed that we were going into prevent genocide and rape when it seems we were going in to help his neighbours overthrow him while taking some goodies for ourselves.

Most of the work on the ground was still done by Libyans, it would take more than few hundred Qatari troops to overthrow Gaddafi.

The UN resolution was for a no fly zone to protect civilians, no ground force. I doubt if anyone would deny that the no fly zone did not in any way stick to it's remit. From the very earlies they were after Gaddafi and his family and god knows what else we do not know about.

Qater, an outside country was according to itself responsible for training, communications and strategy and sent in front line fighters. I think that coupled with NATO's ruling of the skys and bombing of the the Governments positions and any seen movement probably did not leave a great deal for the rebels to do on their own.

 

[High_Gravity]

The plot thickens




Qatar admits sending hundreds of troops to support Libya rebels | World news | The Guardian

Thats nothing new, the Arab league hated Gaddafi and wanted him gone. Bahrain and Oman also helped arm the rebels and Egypt was flowing weapons over the border to them, several Arab countries also sent fighter jets.

I have to imagine that this wasn't all caused by me not paying attention because I was at times very interested and watching for quite long spells on News 24. I suspect our media have been making a low profile of this.

The Arab League were supposed to be in agreement with NATO doing a no fly zone and were going to be a part of it...but then where are their planes was all I heard. Several times I heard questions or comments about how they had not followed up on their intention to join in the 'no fly' zone and yes, I knew Gaddafi was not liked, not one of the Old Boys so to speak.

I also know there are several resources and reasons why people might want to oust Gaddafi and change the situation. I just can't get away from the fact that the British Public were fed that we were going into prevent genocide and rape when it seems we were going in to help his neighbours overthrow him while taking some goodies for ourselves.

Most of the work on the ground was still done by Libyans, it would take more than few hundred Qatari troops to overthrow Gaddafi.

The UN resolution was for a no fly zone to protect civilians, no ground force. I doubt if anyone would deny that the no fly zone did not in any way stick to it's remit. From the very earlies they were after Gaddafi and his family and god knows what else we do not know about.

Qater, an outside country was according to itself responsible for training, communications and strategy and sent in front line fighters. I think that coupled with NATO's ruling of the skys and bombing of the the Governments positions and any seen movement probably did not leave a great deal for the rebels to do on their own.

I have a feeling the Qataris were not on the front lines, because I have not see any pictures of them unless they were in plaine clothes, its possible they were helping call in NATO Air Strikes from the rear and helping arm and train the rebels, I'm sure we had guys from the CIA and possibly Special Forces down there too but of course I have no proof of that. Either way its a mute point, Gaddafi is dead, his regime is gone and a new government is taking shape in Libya.

 

[alexa]

Thats nothing new, the Arab league hated Gaddafi and wanted him gone. Bahrain and Oman also helped arm the rebels and Egypt was flowing weapons over the border to them, several Arab countries also sent fighter jets.

I have to imagine that this wasn't all caused by me not paying attention because I was at times very interested and watching for quite long spells on News 24. I suspect our media have been making a low profile of this.

The Arab League were supposed to be in agreement with NATO doing a no fly zone and were going to be a part of it...but then where are their planes was all I heard. Several times I heard questions or comments about how they had not followed up on their intention to join in the 'no fly' zone and yes, I knew Gaddafi was not liked, not one of the Old Boys so to speak.

I also know there are several resources and reasons why people might want to oust Gaddafi and change the situation. I just can't get away from the fact that the British Public were fed that we were going into prevent genocide and rape when it seems we were going in to help his neighbours overthrow him while taking some goodies for ourselves.

Most of the work on the ground was still done by Libyans, it would take more than few hundred Qatari troops to overthrow Gaddafi.

The UN resolution was for a no fly zone to protect civilians, no ground force. I doubt if anyone would deny that the no fly zone did not in any way stick to it's remit. From the very earlies they were after Gaddafi and his family and god knows what else we do not know about.

Qater, an outside country was according to itself responsible for training, communications and strategy and sent in front line fighters. I think that coupled with NATO's ruling of the skys and bombing of the the Governments positions and any seen movement probably did not leave a great deal for the rebels to do on their own.

I have a feeling the Qataris were not on the front lines, because I have not see any pictures of them unless they were in plaine clothes,

maybe they were in plain clothes but there were repeated rumours and some sightings of them according to this article

There were repeated rumours about and occasional sightings of Qatari special forces in Libya during the war. Until now, however, there had been no official confirmation of actions that were not explicitly authorised by the UN.

The Qatari chief-of-staff, Major-General Hamad bin Ali al-Atiya, said: "We were among them and the numbers of Qataris on the ground were hundreds in every region. Training and communications had been in Qatari hands. Qatar … supervised the rebels' plans because they are civilians and did not have enough military experience," AFP quoted him as saying. "We acted as the link between the rebels and Nato forces."

its possible they were helping call in NATO Air Strikes from the rear and helping arm and train the rebels,

They apparently did send most of their air force to help Nato but not only that...

The Qatari chief-of-staff, Major-General Hamad bin Ali al-Atiya, said: "We were among them and the numbers of Qataris on the ground were hundreds in every region. Training and communications had been in Qatari hands. Qatar … supervised the rebels' plans because they are civilians and did not have enough military experience," AFP quoted him as saying. "We acted as the link between the rebels and Nato forces."

Qatari special forces are reported to have provided infantry training to Libyan fighters in the western Nafusa mountains and in eastern Libya. Qatar's military even brought Libyan rebels back to Doha for exercises. And in the final assault on Gaddafi's Bab al-Aziziya compound in Tripoli in late August, Qatari special forces were seen on the frontline. Qatar also gave $400m to the rebels, helped them export oil from Benghazi and set up a TV station in Doha.

Qatar admits sending hundreds of troops to support Libya rebels | World news | The Guardian

Look what they say, not hundreds but hundreds in every region and in Tripoli, no doubt in plain clothes, they are seen on the front line. (by those who know how to spy them of course)

I'm sure we had guys from the CIA and possibly Special Forces down there too but of course I have no proof of that. Either way its a mute point,

Yes it was mentioned in a secretive way every now and then that one or two of our people had dropped in for a cup of tea and to offer assistance - there must have been a heck of a lot of people on the ground.

Gaddafi is dead, his regime is gone and a new government is taking shape in Libya

That is true and we will judge them on how they are. We cannot change the past. However I want to find out what was going on here and because someone is dead and new people installed does not lesson the desire for the truth.

 

[High_Gravity]

I have to imagine that this wasn't all caused by me not paying attention because I was at times very interested and watching for quite long spells on News 24. I suspect our media have been making a low profile of this.

The Arab League were supposed to be in agreement with NATO doing a no fly zone and were going to be a part of it...but then where are their planes was all I heard. Several times I heard questions or comments about how they had not followed up on their intention to join in the 'no fly' zone and yes, I knew Gaddafi was not liked, not one of the Old Boys so to speak.

I also know there are several resources and reasons why people might want to oust Gaddafi and change the situation. I just can't get away from the fact that the British Public were fed that we were going into prevent genocide and rape when it seems we were going in to help his neighbours overthrow him while taking some goodies for ourselves.



The UN resolution was for a no fly zone to protect civilians, no ground force. I doubt if anyone would deny that the no fly zone did not in any way stick to it's remit. From the very earlies they were after Gaddafi and his family and god knows what else we do not know about.

Qater, an outside country was according to itself responsible for training, communications and strategy and sent in front line fighters. I think that coupled with NATO's ruling of the skys and bombing of the the Governments positions and any seen movement probably did not leave a great deal for the rebels to do on their own.

maybe they were in plain clothes but there were repeated rumours and some sightings of them according to this article





They apparently did send most of their air force to help Nato but not only that...

Qatar admits sending hundreds of troops to support Libya rebels | World news | The Guardian

Look what they say, not hundreds but hundreds in every region and in Tripoli, no doubt in plain clothes, they are seen on the front line. (by those who know how to spy them of course)



Yes it was mentioned in a secretive way every now and then that one or two of our people had dropped in for a cup of tea and to offer assistance - there must have been a heck of a lot of people on the ground.

Gaddafi is dead, his regime is gone and a new government is taking shape in Libya

That is true and we will judge them on how they are. We cannot change the past. However I want to find out what was going on here and because someone is dead and new people installed does not lesson the desire for the truth.

Well I don't know if this war was started for access to Libyan oil because the international community already had it, Gaddafi gave up his WMD's and renounced terrorism in 2004, the US and the West had dropped the sanctions on Libya, re-established diplomatic relations and got the oil companies back over there, access to Libyan oil and assets were there with Gaddafi, so I don't think this was all about that.

 

[alexa]

maybe they were in plain clothes but there were repeated rumours and some sightings of them according to this article





They apparently did send most of their air force to help Nato but not only that...

Qatar admits sending hundreds of troops to support Libya rebels | World news | The Guardian

Look what they say, not hundreds but hundreds in every region and in Tripoli, no doubt in plain clothes, they are seen on the front line. (by those who know how to spy them of course)



Yes it was mentioned in a secretive way every now and then that one or two of our people had dropped in for a cup of tea and to offer assistance - there must have been a heck of a lot of people on the ground.



That is true and we will judge them on how they are. We cannot change the past. However I want to find out what was going on here and because someone is dead and new people installed does not lesson the desire for the truth.

Well I don't know if this war was started for access to Libyan oil because the international community already had it, Gaddafi gave up his WMD's and renounced terrorism in 2004, the US and the West had dropped the sanctions on Libya, re-established diplomatic relations and got the oil companies back over there, access to Libyan oil and assets were there with Gaddafi, so I don't think this was all about that.

Exactly so why choose him rather than Syria or Bahrain. He was even locking up economic migrants and sending them back home so that they couldn't risk their lives getting to Italy. Whatever you think of Gaddafi, he must have felt totally betrayed. I have heard people suggesting firstly, it will be a very hard job to get the UN to say yes to a no fly zone again and second, hold on to your nukes!!

No, it was clearly something else. The situation was used opportunistically for some other reason. Sure France is supposed to have got a massive deal on the oil and who knows maybe that was enough to woo France, the first to offer to help. Then there are other things which I haven't looked into properly, the possibility of him demanding Libyian oil be paid for in Gold for instance and then there is something about getting one's hand on Libya's vast reserves of water and some other things concerning his relations with Africa.

And then of course Qator has a US base I read last night

The Arab League wanted him gone, the possibility of him changing the way gold was sold was a fear for the west and others and lots of people possibly wanted to get their hands on Libya's water that is before even looking at the African connection. I believe there is much more going on here than meets the eye, but right now I need to start getting ready for people coming to dinner.

 

[High_Gravity]

Well I don't know if this war was started for access to Libyan oil because the international community already had it, Gaddafi gave up his WMD's and renounced terrorism in 2004, the US and the West had dropped the sanctions on Libya, re-established diplomatic relations and got the oil companies back over there, access to Libyan oil and assets were there with Gaddafi, so I don't think this was all about that.

Exactly so why choose him rather than Syria or Bahrain. He was even locking up economic migrants and sending them back home so that they couldn't risk their lives getting to Italy. Whatever you think of Gaddafi, he must have felt totally betrayed. I have heard people suggesting firstly, it will be a very hard job to get the UN to say yes to a no fly zone again and second, hold on to your nukes!!

No, it was clearly something else. The situation was used opportunistically for some other reason. Sure France is supposed to have got a massive deal on the oil and who knows maybe that was enough to woo France, the first to offer to help. Then there are other things which I haven't looked into properly, the possibility of him demanding Libyian oil be paid for in Gold for instance and then there is something about getting one's hand on Libya's vast reserves of water and some other things concerning his relations with Africa.

And then of course Qator has a US base I read last night

The Arab League wanted him gone, the possibility of him changing the way gold was sold was a fear for the west and others and lots of people possibly wanted to get their hands on Libya's water that is before even looking at the African connection. I believe there is much more going on here than meets the eye, but right now I need to start getting ready for people coming to dinner.

Qatar has a huge US Air base there, a friend of mine deployed there last year. After we invaded Iraq in 2003 we moved most of our troops from Saudi soil to Qatar. I am sure Gaddafi did feel betrayed, he met with Barack Obama and shook his hand a few years ago, as well as took pictures with Tony Blair and Condoleeza Rice. All in all I just hope the Libyans do the right thing, I would hate to look back at this in a few years as a big regret.

 

[High_Gravity]

Exactly so why choose him rather than Syria or Bahrain.

The Saudis do not want the Bahraini Regime to fall, they believe if Bahrain fell into Shite hands it would fall into Irans lap, and cause problems with the Shite population in Saudi Arabia, as far as Syria is concerned the Arab League doesn't really want Bashar gone, plus there isn't a big fighting force on the ground that is actively fighting Assads forces and siezing towns, as they were in Libya. Bombing the shit out of Syria won't accomplish much if there is not a force on the ground to topple the regime, the Arabs that helped in Libya will NOT be there in Syria, bet on that.

 

[High_Gravity]

Gaddafi Son Saif Al-Islam Headed To Mali, Official Says

DAKAR, Senegal — Moammar Gadhafi's intelligence chief, who is wanted by Interpol, fled to Mali overnight after making his way across Niger where he has been hiding for several days in the country's northern desert, an adviser to the president of Niger said Thursday.

The official, speaking on the condition of anonymity due to the sensitive nature of the matter, said that Abdullah al-Senoussi entered Mali late Wednesday night via the Kidal region, which shares a border with Niger. He is guarded by a unit of about a dozen people and arrived in a convoy that was piloted by ethnic Tuaregs from Mali.

The official said that Gadhafi's hunted son, Seif al-Islam, is also on his way to Mali and is traveling across the invisible line separating Algeria from Niger. The area, an ungoverned expanse of dunes stretching for hundreds of miles, has been used for years by drug traffickers as well as by an offshoot of al-Qaida.

"Senoussi is in Mali ... he arrived yesterday," said the adviser, an influential elder in the ethnic Tuareg community which overwhelmingly supported Gadhafi and remained loyal to him despite Niger's official stance backing the country's new rulers.

"Seif is going to Mali too. He is right now between Niger and Algeria. He is in the territory at the frontier between the two, heading to Mali," the adviser said. "For the moment, they do not plan to approach the government. They are protected by the Tuaregs ... and they are choosing to stay in the desert."

The region through which they traveled is the traditional home of the Tuaregs, the desert dwellers whose members live in the nations abutting the Sahara desert from Mauritania in the east, through Mali, Niger, Libya and Chad. The group felt a kinship with Gadhafi who elevated the nomadic life by pitching his tent in the courtyards of four-star hotels in Europe.

Hundreds of Malian and Nigerien Tuaregs were recruited by Gadhafi to fight as hired guns in Libya in the final months of the conflict. The video showing how Gadhafi was manhandled after he was caught has deeply offended Tuareg communities throughout Africa.

Starting at dinnertime Wednesday, Tuareg elders met in Agadez to discuss the conflict posed by the arrival of Gadhafi's most trusted collaborators in light of the Niger's government's commitment to hand over anyone wanted by the world court. Both the son and the intelligence chief are wanted by the International Criminal Court which issued warrants for their arrest in May for crimes against humanity committed during the monthslong struggle for power in Libya.

About 30 other regime loyalists, including another Gadhafi son, al-Saadi, fled to Niger in September, but were apprehended by Niger's government and placed under house arrest.

"We are hearing the same reports as you, that Seif is in our zone. But our security forces have not run into him," said Massoudou Hassoumi, the chief of staff of Niger's President Mahamadou Issoufou. "The day that we run into him we will arrest him. He is pursued by the ICC, and we will hand him over in keeping with our international obligations."

In Mali, a tribal elder from the country's north where the fugitives are believed to be hiding, said that he doesn't think Mali will shield them from the ICC.

"People on the ground are saying that Senoussi is there," said the elder who asked not to be named because of the delicate nature of the issue.

"I don't know if Gadhafi's son is there too. It's a small group of vehicles which is to the northeast of Kidal Town. It's possible that they are with other Tuaregs who have returned from Libya," the elder said. "I think they know if they came here that Mali is going to hand them over to the ICC. In fact I think that's why they came here because they want to be safely handed over."

Niger's government, which is heavily dependent on aid, has been put in an impossible spot, forced to choose between its obligations to the international community and its powerful Tuareg community. The problem is similar in Mali, but President Amadou Toumani Toure is at the tail-end of his second term and is not seeking re-election, making him possibly freer to choose a course of action without fear of political repercussions.

Gaddafi Son Saif Al-Islam Headed To Mali, Official Says

 

[alexa]

Another update just come out a few minutes ago.

THE HAGUE Oct 28 (Reuters) - The International Criminal Court prosecutor said on Friday that his office was in "informal contact" with the late Muammar Gaddafi's fugitive son Saif al-Islam over his possible surrender to the war crimes court.

Saif al-Islam went on the run after forces loyal to Libya's new rulers captured and apparently killed his father outside his hometown of Sirte. Saif al-Islam is believed to have fled across Libya's southern border into Niger.

"Through intermediaries, we have informal contact with Saif. The office of the prosecutor has made it clear that if he surrenders to the ICC, he has the right to be heard in court, he is innocent until proven guilty. The judges will decide," prosecutor Luis Moreno-Ocampo said in a statement.

"Additionally, we have learnt through informal channels that there is a group of mercenaries who are offering to move Saif to an African (country) not party to the Rome Statute of the ICC. The Office of the Prosecutor is also exploring the possibility to intercept any plane within the air space of a state party in order to make an arrest," he said.

Countries which are not party to the Rome Statute are not obliged to hand over suspects.

UPDATE 1-ICC prosecutor in contact with Gaddafi's son over surrender | Agricultural Commodities | Reuters

I had noticed earlier that some people were suggesting that his plea to give himself up might be an attempt to distract as he made his escape. This seems to be also in the minds of the ICC

 

[JStone]

Another update just come out a few minutes ago.

THE HAGUE Oct 28 (Reuters) - The International Criminal Court prosecutor said on Friday that his office was in "informal contact" with the late Muammar Gaddafi's fugitive son Saif al-Islam over his possible surrender to the war crimes court.

Saif al-Islam went on the run after forces loyal to Libya's new rulers captured and apparently killed his father outside his hometown of Sirte. Saif al-Islam is believed to have fled across Libya's southern border into Niger.

"Through intermediaries, we have informal contact with Saif. The office of the prosecutor has made it clear that if he surrenders to the ICC, he has the right to be heard in court, he is innocent until proven guilty. The judges will decide," prosecutor Luis Moreno-Ocampo said in a statement.

"Additionally, we have learnt through informal channels that there is a group of mercenaries who are offering to move Saif to an African (country) not party to the Rome Statute of the ICC. The Office of the Prosecutor is also exploring the possibility to intercept any plane within the air space of a state party in order to make an arrest," he said.

Countries which are not party to the Rome Statute are not obliged to hand over suspects.

UPDATE 1-ICC prosecutor in contact with Gaddafi's son over surrender | Agricultural Commodities | Reuters

I had noticed earlier that some people were suggesting that his plea to give himself up might be an attempt to distract as he made his escape. This seems to be also in the minds of the ICC

Arabs are without question the most fucked up people on the planet