Turkey In Iraq

Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by Annie, Jul 28, 2006.

  1. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    Canavar warned of such, the first makes reference to the possibility, the second, the reality:


    http://counterterrorismblog.org/2006/07/possible_turkish_intervention.php#trackbacks

    http://inbrief.threatswatch.org/2006/07/turkish-troops-cross-iraq-bord/

     
  2. ekrem
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    ekrem VIP Member

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    Turkey did not yet march into Iraq.
    This news you posted comes of the legitimate right of hot pursuit.

    So Turkey hunts Terrorists in Turkey, they flew over the boarder and Turkey pursuits them. This is different from marching in to Iraq.

    Talabani as Kurd and President of Iraq the same time, said that agreements beetween Turkey and Saddam's Iraq regarding crossing the boarder is not valid anymore.
    But this does not matter, as Turkey has aggreements from 1925 between UK and Turkey, which are still valid, that Turkey can cross boarder for fighting Terrorism upto 60 kms.
    Actually this treaty is two-sided. So if Turkey would harbour Terrorists, and they wuld make Terror in Iraq and flee into Turkey, Iraq would have the same right of following them up to 60 Kms.

    But that is not the point, as Turkey does not export terrorism to Iraq, but Turkey is the only country who imports terrorism from Iraq.

    The PKK has about 10 Terrorcamps in Northern Iraq. Plus a recruit center called Mahmour camp.
    [​IMG]


    But PKK has one big camp, which is also their logistics and training centre. This camp is called Kandil and lies on the mountain called the same Name. This mountain has raisings up to over 3000 meters and is more mountain range then a single mountain.

    All other camps, except Kandil and Mahmour recruit camp lie in this range of 60 km from Turkish boarder. So they feel safe there.
    Except Kandil and Mahmour, all others are in Turkish artillery range and being "hot pursuited". These small camps near the Turkish boarder are more a final logistical spring board for the terrorists before they infiltrate Turkey. Nothing big and usually there are no Terrorists except they are on their way to infiltrate Turkey.


    This is a graphic (Too big to post here), where you can see, that Kandil mountains are from bird view 85 Km away and from entering with ground forces 120 Km.
    http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/basbug/ops9kd-1.jpg
    So actually, they feel safe there from
    - American none-action
    - North-Iraqi Kurdish toleration
    - and Turkish none-access to this area


    Turkey is at present in operations against PKK inside Turkey. Hunting Terrorists which infiltrated Turkey. The unit of 200 Turkish soldiers which entered Iraq, mentioned in the first post, comes from this hot pursuit beginning on Turkish territory.

    Also a major development is, that Iran has opened its Airspace for Turkish Helicopters and fighter planes. In Iran there are 2 PKK-camps near the Iranian towns of Hoy and Mirgever and Turkey has stationed troops there. With backing by Iran, actually Anti-Terrorism with Iran functions while it does not with USA.
    So Turkey is cleaning at present Turkish territory itself from PKK and Iran territory the same time, with assistance of Iranian air force.

    Turkish Army in Iranian territories against the PKK
    http://www.turkishweekly.net/news.php?id=35166

    This cleaning will not last long as the major presence of PKK is in North-Iraq. And we will avoid fighting PKK in 3 countries (Turkey, Iran, Iraq) the same time, which is a logistical and administrative (because 3 States) unfavourable situation.

    On 30 August Turkey's moderate chief of general staff Hilmi Özkök goes into old-age pension. And the new designated General Staff which comes into position you in America would call such a profile of a man a Neo-Con, who is determined to put into this Terrorism an end.
    It is the Bush doctrine, takeing the fight to the enemy. And this designated man expressed his will of doing this for some time now.

    For example:
    http://www.byegm.gov.tr/YAYINLARIMIZ/CHR/ING2001/09/01x09x27.HTM# 0

    also he says in reliance to the Mid-East:
    http://www.turkpulse.com/turkey35.htm

    This designated Chief of general Staff is at present Army-General (commander) and has direct command over these units:

    * 4 Field armies,
    * 10 Army corps,
    * 2 Mechanized infantry divisions,
    * 2 Mechanized infantry division headquarters (tactical),
    * 1 Infantery division and 1 training division,
    * 14 Mechanized infantry brigades,
    * 14 Armored brigades,
    * 12 Infantry/regional security brigades,
    * 5 Commando brigades,
    * 5 Training brigades.

    And when you keep reading my posts in this forum, then you can remeber in my Thread "High preparations"
    http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31094
    that under his command some months ago he moved the Army Headquarters from Ankara to Southeast town of Sirnak and he took direct controll of the Turkish 2nd Army in this boarder region which are now toghther with the additional special commandos from West-Turkey deployed there at about over 200.000 Soldiers.

    So we will make action. And USA has time till August 31 to prevent Turkey from makeing action simply by takeing US-Action against PKK in North-Iraq.

    As I said, Kandil mountains are 120 Km away from Turkey. so we would march about 150 km deep into Iraq, as some Terrorists will flee and we will follow them till noone is left.
    All this 150 km from Turkish boarder must be secured for logistic and security reasons. And this 150 Km will be a huge puffer-zone, like Israel intends to do in Lebanon and of course it will be a no-go area for none-Turkish army people.

    In these days, Turkish media reports, that Kurds are airing "The other Iraq" spots on Fox-News again. Mentioning of peacefull North-Iraq and soon.
    We will see if this North-Iraq proves to come true to be peacefull.

    And according to Michael rubin, former Pentagon employee and now at AEI, local Kurdish government of North-Iraq is even selling PKK-Terrorists weapons:

    Former Pentagon employee Rubin: Barzani selling arms to PKK
    http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/4779052.asp?gid=74

    I think Turkish intelligence is exactly knowing what it is all about.
     
  3. dilloduck
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    dilloduck Diamond Member

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    I have been noticing the commercials on TV portraying the Kurds as peaceful and grateful people. I thought they were a bit odd but apparently its propaganda to prepare us for what's to come. I hear nothing else on the news regarding the approaching deadline of Turkeys' incursion into northern Iraq and I am unsure of who it is that adamantly defends the PKK or why they do it.
     
  4. ekrem
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    ekrem VIP Member

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    The "Other Iraq" spots: It is nothing more than propaganda. Not a investment promotion or even Tourist promotion as it is being said in the spots.
    Your state department gives warnings in reliance to this region which is unmistakably to understand.
    When you look to these spots, the Spot is all about the word Kurdistan, Kurdistan and again Kurdistan for itself. You know, the "other Iraq".
    Propaganda.


    "The Kurdistan Regional Government has hired Republican lobby firm Russo Marsh & Rogers to get 'free media' to promote the interests of the Kurds in the post-Saddam Hussein Iraq," reports O'Dwyer's
    http://www.prwatch.org/node/3821

    The selling of brand Kurdistan
    http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemID=19468




    The last day President Bush and our Primeminister had some telephone conversations.Where Bush promised more aggressive action against PKK. Their relationship is very cool. And actually, we are sick of hearing of how USA is "intensifying" its actions against PKK. We hear this now for years. And nothing happens.

    Our Foreign Minister and Condoleeza Rice met beetween 4-7 July in Washington, where they presented a document which shortly states "Strategic Vision", to improve bilateral tides.
    http://www.turkishembassy.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=572&Itemid=275
    Our and your Foreign minister have warm relationship, and all which is being done in state-diplomacy between Turkey and USA is being done between the 2 of them. Here in Turkey we think, that Rice is one of the few friends Turkey has in current Government of USA.
    Also Matt Bryza talked of "more concrete steps against PKK shortly".

    But i do no not believe that USA will take a more "aggressive" stance on PKK.

    We think, that those who adamantly defend the PKK are obviuosly located in Centcom/Pentagon. And Turkey has no friends there anymore. Whilst i think that State department with Condoleeza Rice thinks strategically that Turkey could be needed in Mid-East in near future.
    So we will see in August who will dominate US policy on Turkey, the Pentagon or Condoleeza Rice.

    I hope good relations will win, rather than a "will never heal"-crash in relations with Pentagon dominateing policy on toleration against PKK, and the same time Yasar Büyükanit becoming Chief of Genral Staff in August here in Turkey.
    Whatever the constellations will be in Washington, be it pro Turkey or against Turkey, PKK-damocles-sword played by some parts of foreign powers over Turkish lives will end.
    The Turkish people never give a tolerance to a Superpower which gives tolerance to an organization that kills their people and children. If the USA is a superpower, the USA should have the power to prevent the terrorists to establish terror bases and infiltrateing Turkey from "liberated, democratic, lighthouse in the darkness"- IRAQ. If the US is not a Superpower, Turkey has enough power to protect its people and children from PKK terrorism and it will. The countdown started.
     
  5. dilloduck
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    dilloduck Diamond Member

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    Why would the CENTCOM/Pentagon "protect" the PKK.
    ( Is your tone threatening or just because you are afraid of what might happen ) ?
     
  6. ekrem
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    ekrem VIP Member

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    No, I am not threatening and I am in no position to do so.
    Regarding Centcom/Pentagon:
    http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4155/is_20050321/ai_n13462862

    -----------

    There is the possibility that this operation could bring Turkey and the US into a confrontation or even a war. Of course it would not be good to have a confrontation with the USA - the world superpower - but it is certain that such an confrontation would also not be good for the USA. Because the Turkish Armed Forces also have extensive experience in the region and indepth knowledge about conditions in the region in times of war.

    Our government has failed in putting an end of Turks getting killed by terrorism. Government is acknowledging this by theirselves:
    http://www.ntvmsnbc.com/news/379917.asp

    Our government can not be a standbyer anymore to these Terrorist attacks. They anyway have problems regarding the next elections, and if they do not act, they will have big big problems in next elections.
    These days, Anti-Terror law packages passed through parliament, extending influence of Turkish army on many aspects of Turkey's daily life.
    So government has now given the issue, because it is not able to end this, to the Turkish Armed forces.
    The signs of this can be seen now, and it’s about a tendency towards meeting all the requests of the military who wants to fight these Terrorists on an extended legal law basis and wants to end this fight in Kandil mountain.

    Turkey has no other choice then reacting so. Putting its armed forces behing foreign policy and especially the elimination of PKK presence in North-Iraq.
    Terrorist attacks occuring in a shorter frequency, more and more people die. And as we see for over 3 years now, Diplomacy with USA also does not stop Turks getting killed by Terrorists who infiltrate Turkey from Iraq.

    For example, has the USA prevented any weapons or bullets being brought to the PKK? Any prevention on logistical, training activities by PKK in North-Iraq? Not even a single bag of supplies from PKK was seized?
    Whilst USA was bombing Ansar-Al-Islam in North-Iraq, PKK-Terrorists watched the show of F-16s killing other terrorists from the first bank. Carefree, of course.


     
  7. onedomino
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    onedomino SCE to AUX

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    We should shutdown the US airbase in Turkey and fund the Kurdish rebels. Turkey could hardly be less supportive of US foreign policy. There are also Kurdish rebels in Iran. Not only should we fund the Iranian Kurds, we should also arm them. The Kurdish problem stems from the drunken English cartographer that drew the boundry lines for Middle East countries around 1900. Whoever drew the boundry lines did not give a damn about ethnicity and left the Kurds out in the cold...big time.
     
  8. theHawk
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    theHawk Registered Conservative

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    Yup, old mistakes still being delt with.
     
  9. ekrem
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    ekrem VIP Member

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    Kandil is 120 km from Turkish boarder. Iraqi officials comfirmed, that since last week we moved there reconnaissance units.

    http://www.menewsline.com/stories/2006/august/08_01_3.html
     
  10. OCA
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    OCA Senior Member

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    Exactly. The Turks are running a big game on the world about the supposed Kurdish problem and how their borders are being trespassed upon by the PKK. What about Cyprus's border? Seems to me Turkey should stay the hell out and fix its old problems before starting new ones.

    BTW I think the U.N. should take Northern Iraq and some of Southern Turkey and make it into Kurdistan, they did it for the Jews why not the Kurds?

    And LMFAO! at those trying to portray the PKK as terrorists......as if they don't have legitimate beefs.
     
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