Trust, But Verify

Discussion in 'Politics' started by PoliticalChic, May 15, 2011.

  1. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    Forcing citizens to buy a federal product...ending the concept of federalism...telling private companies where they can open factories...imposing controls on the internet...


    “Each advance in the powers of government, each surrender of an additional quantum of our freedom, represents a corruption of our basic character, yet there are times when it is the lesser of ineluctable evils. …Once in place, the big government follows its preordained path, and sought to expand.

    If we were ever faced with a choice between individualism and the kind of coddling mama-state Tocqueville dreads, we would draw a line and fight for our freedoms, but we never had the luxury of such a “moment of truth.” The biggest changes were taken in highly charged moments, and presented by national heroes who stigmatized their critics as greedy and uncaring people. Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s famous campaign address in Madison Square Garden in 1936, when he spoke of the boom of the 1920’s and the 1929 crash that led to his election in 1932, is a classic example. “Nine wild years of the golden calf, and three long years of the scourge. Nine frantic years at the ticker, and three hard years in the breadlines…” The New Deal wasn’t merely a rescue operation for the broke, the hungry, and the unemployed; like all our great national enterprises, it was presented as a crusade against evil itself. When Lyndon Johnson proposed the Great Society legislation of the mid 1960’s he evoked similar themes, presenting is program as a moral necessity. Each change was viewed as a single decision, not part of a pattern, and as Tocqueville predicted, we grew accustomed to it.” Ledeen, “Tocqueville on American Character,” p.179-180.

    1) One thing that jumps out is Ledeen’s thinking that “If we were ever faced with a choice between individualism and the kind of coddling mama-state… we would draw a line and fight for our freedoms,…” Of course, that presupposes that we would all recognize the position, see the loss and what it represents. Do we? Will we? 2012 will tell the tale.

    2) In his book, Ledeen points, many times, to Tocqueville’s contention that Americans are a moral people. Moreso than others. And the selection above shows that as well, in that once our leaders frame a question in terms of morality, of good vs. evil, of right vs. wrong, Americans vote for it…even though it costs blood or it costs treasure. The New Deal, World Wars, the Great Society,… …but our elected leaders don’t always tell the truth. And, sadly, many are unable to recognize that.

    3) Our great first-Republican President sagely told us “You may fool all the people some of the time, you can even fool some of the people all of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all the time.”

    Of course, you only have to fool 51% of the people.

    2012 will tell the tale.

    Will Americans accepted the 'change' imposed on us, or will we remind politicians that they rule at our whim?
     
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  2. percysunshine
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    percysunshine Gold Member

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    Fascism sucks. Especially when liberals do it.
     
  3. Wiseacre
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    Wiseacre Retired USAF Chief Supporting Member

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    It's damn hard to take something away from people after you've told them they're entitled to it. I think we're fucked, it's going to take a major shock like a big depression for people to realize there's no free lunch, and no free healthcare either.
     
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  4. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    "It's damn hard to take something away from people after you've told them they're entitled to it."

    True, but have faith in the American people. I believe that an understanding of the difference between a right and an entitlement would help.

    1. "But these new so-called “rights” are about the government — who the Founders saw as the enemy — giving us things: food, health care, education... And when we have a right to be given stuff that previously we had to work for, then there is no reason — none — to go and work for them. The goody bag has no bottom, except bankruptcy and ruin." What Is a Right and How Do We Know? - Bill Whittle - National Review Online

    2. “True” rights are inalienable. They exist whether or not they are recognized, and whether or not the ability or the will to defend them exists.

    True rights do not impose an implicit obligation upon any other person to provide them to us. In fact, rights exist in greatest measure when we are each simply “left alone”.
    If something must be provided to us at the expense of someone else in order for us to have it, then it may be an entitlement, a privilage, or an act of charity – but it is not a “right”.

    The American founders (Jefferson, Mason, et al) arguably devised the best system to date – although it has clearly suffered at the hands of many of it’s caretakers over the years.
    “To secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the consent of the governed.”
    Rights vs entitlement and privilege | Breckshire … World with a View

    3. Moreover, entitlements are always financed by compelling others to pay. Thus, they lead to more and more interference with individual freedom as government grows in size to administer its programs, seizing the fruits of individuals’ actions both to support itself and to fulfill its entitlement guarantees.
    Rights Versus Entitlements | The Freeman | Ideas On Liberty

    4. The human right to affordable restaurant-quality food:

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRaIsqb3DqA]YouTube - Unidine[/ame]
     
  5. The T
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    The T George S. Patton Party Supporting Member

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    And then that would portend the death knell of Liberty itself.

    I'll have NO part of it.
     
  6. The T
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    The T George S. Patton Party Supporting Member

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    ”.

    All that need be done is Exercising...and defending when government imperils the exercise...
     
  7. zzzz
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    zzzz Just a regular American

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    Consent of the governed ...

    All it takes in this country is less than 20% of the governed to select a president!
    Bush 2000: 50,456,002 votes, population of US: 281,421,906
    So who do they represent? 1 out of every 5 people?

    The majority of the PEOPLE of the United States have in effect forfeited their right to elect people to represent them, why? Are they so comfortable or wrapped up in their lives that they just ignore politics? Or do they think that their vote does not really count? Or are we just a bunch of losers who complain and complain but are so lazy or indifferent that we will not do anything but complain? Or is life too busy with work, family and making a living that getting involved is something they just do not have time for.
     
  8. dilloduck
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    dilloduck Diamond Member

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    Simple----our election system is rigged and once someone is elected it's too hard for the people to get them out of there.
     
  9. NYcarbineer
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    NYcarbineer Diamond Member

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    Maybe you should start a movement to lower the voting age to zero.
     
  10. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    "Or is life too busy with work, family and making a living that getting involved is something they just do not have time for."
    I think you hit the nail on the head, Z's.

    And of course, the sought-after ‘American Dream’ is easier to capture if the government does it for us…even though we know that doing it for ourselves is the right course. So, we feel guilty with each concession of our liberty. That’s where the rationalization for our inactions comes in!

    1. First, we claim what can one single vote or protest do. Cynicism. Yet, isn’t it always a small determined group, or even one courageous individual, that transforms?

    2. Then, there is the belief in some big theory, because that saves us the trouble of actually checking the facts, research, analysis…but requires us to ignore the realization that there is data that doesn’t fit….So the MSM does the thinking for vast swaths of Americans.
    But that's changing, too....there's a new media. And the old media has proven to many how disreputable it is.

    3. Lest this sounds too pessimistic...we may be in a very special place....the perfect storm created by an administration that believes it's own hype....
    ...and a public that is actually paying attention.
    That is never a good thing for the Left!

    It may be that the recession, the hardships that so many face, gas prices, meaningless intercessions, broken promises, and the arrogance of this amateur President will be the perfect storm...


    But...there is a warning in the words of Oscar Wilde- "There are only two tragedies in life: one is not getting what one wants, and the other is getting it."

    What will we do with the United States after we take it back?
     

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