Torture, the gift that keeps on giving...

[Yurt]

Bully,

Next time you call someone a dolt, make sure you know what you talking and posting about first. From one of your source:

The Act also required relevant agencies to promulgate and enforce regulations to implement CAT, subject to the understandings, declarations, and reservations made by the Senate resolution of ratification.34 In doing so, however, Congress required that, “to the maximum extent consistent” with Convention obligations, these regulations exclude from their protection those aliens described in section 241(b)(3)(B) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA).35 Section 241(b)(3)(B) acts as an exception to the general U.S. prohibition on the removal of otherwise deportable aliens to countries where they would face persecution. An alien may be removed despite the prospect of likely persecution if the alien:

(1) assisted in Nazi persecution or engaged in genocide;
(2) ordered, incited, assisted, or otherwise participated in the
persecution of an individual because of the individual’s race,
religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or
political opinion;
(3) having been convicted of a particularly serious crime, is a
danger to the community of the United States;
(4) is strongly suspected to have committed a serious
nonpolitical crime outside the United States prior to arrival; or
(5) is believed, on the basis of serious grounds, to be a danger to
the security of the United States.36 Aliens who have engaged in terrorist activity, including those who have provided material support to terrorist organizations, are considered a security threat covered under section 241(b)(3)(B), and are thus removable and excludable from entry into the United States despite facing prospective persecution abroad.37

Terrorist activity does not include material support if the Secretary of State or Attorney General, following consultation with the other, concludes in his sole, unreviewable discretion that the definition of “terrorist activity” does not apply.38

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/crs/rl32276.pdf


Come on Bully, now what? Are you going to continue to name call? Or answer the question, especially in light of the foregoing?

 

[manu1959]

LAUGH MY FUCKING ASS OFF! (this was too ridiculous for LMFAO)

Another lib who believes that this is like a police problem, yes haul em into court, better yet the Hague, very effective court there.

People remember, libs loathe the military and anything to do with it, their objections are not based on principle but blind hatred towards the military and in a roundabout way America.

Hey the info is of dubious value, Bully said so.

lets send the liberal police to iraq

teddy, johnny, billary, barbara and the rest can go over and arrest them all and take them to the hauge

 

[OCA]

Hey Bully are you speaking of the Hague?(I ask again) That place where Milosevic has been getting railroaded for about a decade now with no end in sight. That court is about as worthless as tits on a boar.

 

[Annie]

Hey Bully are you speaking of the Hague?(I ask again) That place where Milosevic has been getting railroaded for about a decade now with no end in sight. That court is about as worthless as tits on a boar.

Milosevic railroaded? Now it maybe that the court has been a laughingstock, since he has been able to manipulate it so, but railroaded????

 

[OCA]

Milosevic railroaded? Now it maybe that the court has been a laughingstock, since he has been able to manipulate it so, but railroaded????

Ok maybe i'm prejudiced being from that area but the genocide and ethnic cleansing charges are way overblown. Lets look at the facts(i'm very interested in this case, close to Greece and all):

The Albanian majority and the Serbian minority in Kosovo had been getting along just fine until the fall of communism in Albania. Albania is poor, no natural resources, Kosovo has natural resources, Albanian militias, MUSLIM MILITIAS WITH KNOWN TIES TO AL QAEDA cook up an abuse by Serbians story and say they are protecting Albanians in Kosovo when before the conflict started there is no documented atrocities reported on the ground in many decades. Meanwhile Milosevic has criminal Albanians crossing the border and raping, killing and stealing from ethnic Serbians. So what is he supposed to do, just sit back and take it. No, he says screw it and expels all Albanians, if they resisted they were killed since many had already joined up with their brothers from the homeland and partook of the massacre. Was he right? I don't know, don't know if he had a choice. But anyway the media jumped on "ethnic cleansing" and that was all she wrote.

My point is what if the illegal mexicans entering the country were coming in, burning villages here and then escaping back across the border? I think we would take some action, no? I mean granted their action might have been a bit harsh but you need to know this region, the Balkans, retribution and conflict are harsh.

 

[Annie]

Ok maybe i'm prejudiced being from that area but the genocide and ethnic cleansing charges are way overblown. Lets look at the facts(i'm very interested in this case, close to Greece and all):

The Albanian majority and the Serbian minority in Kosovo had been getting along just fine until the fall of communism in Albania. Albania is poor, no natural resources, Kosovo has natural resources, Albanian militias, MUSLIM MILITIAS WITH KNOWN TIES TO AL QAEDA cook up an abuse by Serbians story and say they are protecting Albanians in Kosovo when before the conflict started there is no documented atrocities reported on the ground in many decades. Meanwhile Milosevic has criminal Albanians crossing the border and raping, killing and stealing from ethnic Serbians. So what is he supposed to do, just sit back and take it. No, he says screw it and expels all Albanians, if they resisted they were killed since many had already joined up with their brothers from the homeland and partook of the massacre. Was he right? I don't know, don't know if he had a choice. But anyway the media jumped on "ethnic cleansing" and that was all she wrote.

My point is what if the illegal mexicans entering the country were coming in, burning villages here and then escaping back across the border? I think we would take some action, no? I mean granted their action might have been a bit harsh but you need to know this region, the Balkans, retribution and conflict are harsh.

Yeah it's a bad neighborhood. Proven in WWI and WWII, only Tito seemed to be able to control it, then of course the USSR kept a lid on it afterwards. As far as the railroading? No way. Here is a CNN piece that goes into it a bit, but has the added bonus of refering to President Clinton, (gagging), in the same way that they do Bush. First President, then either Mr. or just Clinton. Actually I think Bush tends to get more Mr.

Sorry, I forgot the link: http://www.cnn.com/US/9905/27/milosevic.us.reax.01/

 

[Merlin1047]

Then you hunt them down, find them and bring them before the court...

BRING THEM BEFORE THE COURT??? Have you lost your mind completely?

You hunt them down and kill the bastards. Then you bury them amongst pig entrails with a pork by-product hot dog shoved up their asses.

But the bottom line of your argument is the same as usual. It's just another opportunity to bash the Republican administration. Your outrage would hardly be so enthusiastic if this were done under a kerry administration. Franky, your credibility is shot. You are totally incapable of any objectivity. I doubt very much that you even care about ragheads being tortured except in the context that this presents another opportunity to spit a little more venom at George Bush. You're pretty predictable, not to mention monotonous.

 

[Avatar4321]

Fascism, the new catch word for leftists today, if they can use the word enough and get it into today's lexicon then maybe they can get somewhere, sure can't do it debating the issues.

The left is continuing the scream about fascism yet they are the ones vanalizing signs with swasticas. Ironic no?

 

[Avatar4321]

You'd sell your soul for less.

Bully please. you whine about not having serious discussions with the right and they you say ridiculous stuff like this. do you really think you are persuading anything here?

This is the problem i have with leftists like you. you say stuff, fail to provide any evidence and then insult people when they dont fawn all over your "Superior Intellect" That isnt persuasive. Its not persuasive to the American people. You arent going to convince anyone you are right by insulting them. Stop taking yourself so seriously and learn to laugh a bit.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Bully - I think you obviously got in over your head here but I would still love an answer to my last question: What Would You Do?

The rule of law, and I'm not the one in over my head here. You're in way over your depth, and don't even realize it. Your willing support of an administration so lost in its delusion of eliminating the evil "out there" that it cannot even see the evil festering in its breast, is truly appalling. It speaks of a certain unwillingness to look beyond the rhetoric, a certain intellectual laziness, a willingness to let others lead without question. This is the easy way out, it is decptively simplistic in nature, but that is what all potential despots desire...A maleable, unquestioning base of support that thinks no further than necessary to function on a day to day basis. It was this mentality that led us to the horrors that started with Kristalnacht and led to Dachau, Bergen-Belsen, Auschwitz.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Hey Bully are you speaking of the Hague?(I ask again) That place where Milosevic has been getting railroaded for about a decade now with no end in sight. That court is about as worthless as tits on a boar.

Your opinion is duly noted...And dismissed.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Bully please. you whine about not having serious discussions with the right and they you say ridiculous stuff like this. do you really think you are persuading anything here?

This is the problem i have with leftists like you. you say stuff, fail to provide any evidence and then insult people when they dont fawn all over your "Superior Intellect" That isnt persuasive. Its not persuasive to the American people. You arent going to convince anyone you are right by insulting them. Stop taking yourself so seriously and learn to laugh a bit.

I've provided evidence. It's not my fault you are unwilling to see it. After all, none are so blind as those who are unwilling to see.

 

[manu1959]

<center><h1><a href=http://www.newyorker.com/printable/?fact/050214fa_fact6>Outsourcing Torure</a></h1></center>

/crs/rl32276.pdf[/url]

what is torure? and why are we outsourcing it?

 

[Avatar4321]

The rule of law, and I'm not the one in over my head here. You're in way over your depth, and don't even realize it. Your willing support of an administration so lost in its delusion of eliminating the evil "out there" that it cannot even see the evil festering in its breast, is truly appalling. It speaks of a certain unwillingness to look beyond the rhetoric, a certain intellectual laziness, a willingness to let others lead without question. This is the easy way out, it is decptively simplistic in nature, but that is what all potential despots desire...A maleable, unquestioning base of support that thinks no further than necessary to function on a day to day basis. It was this mentality that led us to the horrors that started with Kristalnacht and led to Dachau, Bergen-Belsen, Auschwitz.

Thats almost funny Bully. Since when has the left ever cared about the Rule of Law?

 

[manu1959]

bully you are in way over your depth, and don't even realize it. Your willing support of an administration so lost in its delusion that there is no evil out there other than the bush family that it cannot even see the evil festering in its own wake of denial, it is truly appalling. It speaks of a certain unwillingness to look beyond the rhetoric, a certain intellectual laziness, a willingness to let others lead without question. This is the easy way out, it is decptively simplistic in nature, but that is what all potential despots desire...A maleable, unquestioning base of support that thinks no further than necessary to function on a day to day basis. It was this mentality that led us to the horrors that started with Kristalnacht and led to Dachau, Bergen-Belsen, Auschwitz.

 

[Avatar4321]

I've provided evidence. It's not my fault you are unwilling to see it. After all, none are so blind as those who are unwilling to see.

Bully I understand you like to quote others, but in order to it to qualify as evidence the people you quote cant pull things out of their butt and pretend as if its supported.

Name one person who has been tortured Bully. Tell us what has been done to him.

Oh and as for being blind. Im not the one siding with people who are using swasticas towards people i hate am i? Oh thats rights, its alright to use nazi tactics when its hate towards the President and conservatives. I forgot.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Bully I understand you like to quote others, but in order to it to qualify as evidence the people you quote cant pull things out of their butt and pretend as if its supported.

Name one person who has been tortured Bully. Tell us what has been done to him.

Oh and as for being blind. Im not the one siding with people who are using swasticas towards people i hate am i? Oh thats rights, its alright to use nazi tactics when its hate towards the President and conservatives. I forgot.

Read the ICRC report, read the Teguba Report.

You're not arguing now...You're babbling.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Read the ICRC report, read the Teguba Report.

You're not arguing now...You're babbling.

NONE of this crap applies to ununiformed terrorists. Get bent, nubbin'.

 

[Yurt]

Dear Bully,

I normally refrain from repeating myself, however, you have left little choice in the matter. I used to think that people were being smartass when they said you were a hit and run poster. I am now the wiser.

All your replies were intended to incite and in fact satisfied your liberal rant for the hour.

Here again, is part of my post, which refutes your "theory" that we have even a "moral' obligation to this, for as clearly spelled out, there are exceptions to this rule of deporting to countries known to commit torture, thus, your entire premise if flawed and without merit.

these regulations exclude from their protection those aliens described in section 241(b)(3)(B) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA).35 Section 241(b)(3)(B) acts as an exception to the general U.S. prohibition on the removal of otherwise deportable aliens to countries where they would face persecution. An alien may be removed despite the prospect of likely persecution if the alien:

(1) assisted in Nazi persecution or engaged in genocide;
(2) ordered, incited, assisted, or otherwise participated in the
persecution of an individual because of the individual’s race,
religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or
political opinion;
(3) having been convicted of a particularly serious crime, is a
danger to the community of the United States;

*****waits for shoe from the lib******* hope your aim is better that the guy in portland.....

 

[Johnney]

<blockquote><center><b>Article 1</b></center>

1. For the purposes of this Convention, <b>torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person</b> for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. - UN Convention Against Torture</blockquote>

the end justifies the means