Time to crack down on them rich people

[Patrick2]

[irony]

Yaaaa yaaaaa yaaaaaaa - they pay nearly all the taxes, but so what? Just because they go to school longer, work harder, and are smarter, who says they should have more money than the average joe? And what do they ever do for us regular folks - besides give us jobs, provide capital for our society, and support our charities? The government should GET some of their money, and give it to us. Why? Well, because we exist. Here's the way I look at it - if you force a bank to hand over their money, it's robbery. But if the GOVERNMENT does it, it's perfectly OK, because then it's LEGAL. Funny, lots of things are like that - Madoff is going to jail for a zillion years because of running a ponzi scheme, but the government has been running a vastly bigger one for decades - social security - and just like Madoff's scheme, the last ones to put anything in are the ones to get ripped off. Isn't it amazing how all kinds of monstrous shit becomes "OK" when the government does it? It's a friggin miracle! So let's help ourselves to some of that LEGALLY gotten money from rich folks. Hell, it's like manna from heaven!!

[/irony]

 

[editec]

Oh those poor poor billionaires.

They are the whipping boys of the USA.

See their suffering?

They're crying all the way to the bank.

 

[Wiseacre]

Well, let's see, wasn't it Obama that said back in 2009 that raising taxes in a poor economy was a bad idea?

Wasn't it Obama that pushed for and got the reduced payroll taxes? Why? According to him, to stimulate the economy. And isn't he pushing to extend that?

So why is it that now Obama and the Dems want to raise taxes on the very people that provide capital to start new businesses and expand existing ones? Does that not strike you as a bit hypocritical?

The truth is that Obama is playing populistic politics, playing the class warfare card. I understand, it's all he's got left, but by his own words he's deliberately trying to harm the country's economy. What a bunch of BS, he will veto a short term extension of the debt ceiling? Gotta have the ceiling extended through the next election? What could be more politically motivated than that?

 

[Flopper]

A California based company recently moved it's entire manufacturing and support operation offshore. They took a tax write off for the cost of shutting down the US plant and laying off over a hundred workers. Then they took another tax write off for establishing a new plant and hiring workers overseas. They took a tax write off for the cost of the design and development of new equipment to be manufactured overseas. The equipment is being sold to a shell company in a tax haven country, so no taxes at all are being paid on the sale.

I commend those that are smart enough to profit from these tax loopholes and condemn our congress for allowing them to exist. I'm not opposed to rewarding American businesses for investing in America but it's absolutely criminal for our congress to reward businesses for shipping jobs and manufacturing overseas.

 

[Patrick2]

Oh those poor poor billionaires.

They are the whipping boys of the USA.

See their suffering?

They're crying all the way to the bank.

And those 200,000 a year folks - we'll loot them too! Why? cuz we need money, and stealing from rich people isn't really stealing, because, ah, er, uh - they're rich! Also, all moral laws are suspended when people have more than X number of dollars. Know what I mean?

 

[Patrick2]

A California based company recently moved it's entire manufacturing and support operation offshore. They took a tax write off for the cost of shutting down the US plant and laying off over a hundred workers. Then they took another tax write off for establishing a new plant and hiring workers overseas. They took a tax write off for the cost of the design and development of new equipment to be manufactured overseas. The equipment is being sold to a shell company in a tax haven country, so no taxes at all are being paid on the sale.

I commend those that are smart enough to profit from these tax loopholes and condemn our congress for allowing them to exist. I'm not opposed to rewarding American businesses for investing in America but it's absolutely criminal for our congress to reward businesses for shipping jobs and manufacturing overseas.

I generally agree, but the WINNING attitude is to ask why it happens - is it because the US doesn't come with innovative new products and services that only (for a while) our highly-educated work force can produce? Hmmmm - why's that? Oh yeah - the failed government schools.

 

[Flopper]

A California based company recently moved it's entire manufacturing and support operation offshore. They took a tax write off for the cost of shutting down the US plant and laying off over a hundred workers. Then they took another tax write off for establishing a new plant and hiring workers overseas. They took a tax write off for the cost of the design and development of new equipment to be manufactured overseas. The equipment is being sold to a shell company in a tax haven country, so no taxes at all are being paid on the sale.

I commend those that are smart enough to profit from these tax loopholes and condemn our congress for allowing them to exist. I'm not opposed to rewarding American businesses for investing in America but it's absolutely criminal for our congress to reward businesses for shipping jobs and manufacturing overseas.

I generally agree, but the WINNING attitude is to ask why it happens - is it because the US doesn't come with innovative new products and services that only (for a while) our highly-educated work force can produce? Hmmmm - why's that? Oh yeah - the failed government schools.

Although improving American education should be a priority, changing tax law is easier and addresses the problem more directly.

 

[Patrick2]

A California based company recently moved it's entire manufacturing and support operation offshore. They took a tax write off for the cost of shutting down the US plant and laying off over a hundred workers. Then they took another tax write off for establishing a new plant and hiring workers overseas. They took a tax write off for the cost of the design and development of new equipment to be manufactured overseas. The equipment is being sold to a shell company in a tax haven country, so no taxes at all are being paid on the sale.

I commend those that are smart enough to profit from these tax loopholes and condemn our congress for allowing them to exist. I'm not opposed to rewarding American businesses for investing in America but it's absolutely criminal for our congress to reward businesses for shipping jobs and manufacturing overseas.

I generally agree, but the WINNING attitude is to ask why it happens - is it because the US doesn't come with innovative new products and services that only (for a while) our highly-educated work force can produce? Hmmmm - why's that? Oh yeah - the failed government schools.

Although improving American education should be a priority, changing tax law is easier and addresses the problem more directly.

There are a LOT of reasons, most of which get down to liberal social policy: holding back the best and brightest in our society with "affirmative action", irrational anti-corporate attitudes, immigration policy which directs the illiterate into our country instead of the high IQ.

 

[ShackledNation]

A California based company recently moved it's entire manufacturing and support operation offshore. They took a tax write off for the cost of shutting down the US plant and laying off over a hundred workers. Then they took another tax write off for establishing a new plant and hiring workers overseas. They took a tax write off for the cost of the design and development of new equipment to be manufactured overseas. The equipment is being sold to a shell company in a tax haven country, so no taxes at all are being paid on the sale.

I commend those that are smart enough to profit from these tax loopholes and condemn our congress for allowing them to exist. I'm not opposed to rewarding American businesses for investing in America but it's absolutely criminal for our congress to reward businesses for shipping jobs and manufacturing overseas.

The company did not move from California because California has too little regulation. I moved because there was too much regulation, and too many taxes. Also, what company, when, what tax write offs?

 

[MikeK]

Yaaaa yaaaaa yaaaaaaa - they pay nearly all the taxes, but so what?

The reason why a small percentage of the population pays most of the taxes is that small percentage of the population has over the past three decades managed to acquire and hoard more than 95% of the Nation's wealth resources. You need to understand what has happened to our Country's economy since Reaganomics commenced the disassembly of the middle class and inverted the distribution of wealth. "Trickle-down" was in reality a relentless upward flow of capital the ultimate effect of which has been the virtual bankrupting of Middle America.

While most of the federal tax revenues are paid by a small percentage of the population it simply is not enough to sustain government's requirements. The problem is the rate at which the upper income category is presently taxed was adequate when the middle income category was sufficiently affluent to make up the difference. That is no longer the case.

 

[HenryBHough]

Big savings will come when we close all the schools.

Why do that?

Because education is a waste when all are equal in poverty regardless how much they have learned or how hard they have worked.

That's how "equality of outcome" works, so get used to it.

 

[Patrick2]

Yaaaa yaaaaa yaaaaaaa - they pay nearly all the taxes, but so what?

The reason why a small percentage of the population pays most of the taxes is that small percentage of the population has over the past three decades managed to acquire and hoard more than 95% of the Nation's wealth resources.

Citation? And what do you mean - "horde"?

You need to understand what has happened to our Country's economy since Reaganomics commenced the disassembly of the middle class and inverted the distribution of wealth. "Trickle-down" was in reality a relentless upward flow of capital the ultimate effect of which has been the virtual bankrupting of Middle America.

You are making big claims - big claims require big proof - let's hear it. And what is it with this "distribution" idea? It makes it sound like all money comes from some big pile out in the desert, that someone is supposed to "distribute" it, and if someone gets more than someone else, something must be wrong. It takes no account of the fact that some people work hard smart and long, save money, invest money, whereas others do little of that but still expect that money should be "distributed" to them.

While most of the federal tax revenues are paid by a small percentage of the population it simply is not enough to sustain government's requirements.

"Requirements"? Or is it not enough to support all the pork, waste fraud and abuse, and free ride to society's slackers?

 

[Flopper]

A California based company recently moved it's entire manufacturing and support operation offshore. They took a tax write off for the cost of shutting down the US plant and laying off over a hundred workers. Then they took another tax write off for establishing a new plant and hiring workers overseas. They took a tax write off for the cost of the design and development of new equipment to be manufactured overseas. The equipment is being sold to a shell company in a tax haven country, so no taxes at all are being paid on the sale.

I commend those that are smart enough to profit from these tax loopholes and condemn our congress for allowing them to exist. I'm not opposed to rewarding American businesses for investing in America but it's absolutely criminal for our congress to reward businesses for shipping jobs and manufacturing overseas.

The company did not move from California because California has too little regulation. I moved because there was too much regulation, and too many taxes. Also, what company, when, what tax write offs?

The best and brightness are going to take advantage of American tax laws which encourage economic development abroad. If you can ship work overseas and save labor cost plus getting a tax break from Uncle Sam, you would be fool not to do so.

 

[rightwinger]

[irony]

Yaaaa yaaaaa yaaaaaaa - they pay nearly all the taxes, but so what? Just because they go to school longer, work harder, and are smarter, who says they should have more money than the average joe? And what do they ever do for us regular folks - besides give us jobs, provide capital for our society, and support our charities? The government should GET some of their money, and give it to us. Why? Well, because we exist. Here's the way I look at it - if you force a bank to hand over their money, it's robbery. But if the GOVERNMENT does it, it's perfectly OK, because then it's LEGAL. Funny, lots of things are like that - Madoff is going to jail for a zillion years because of running a ponzi scheme, but the government has been running a vastly bigger one for decades - social security - and just like Madoff's scheme, the last ones to put anything in are the ones to get ripped off. Isn't it amazing how all kinds of monstrous shit becomes "OK" when the government does it? It's a friggin miracle! So let's help ourselves to some of that LEGALLY gotten money from rich folks. Hell, it's like manna from heaven!!

[/irony]

It has nothing to do with going up to rich people and saying "you have too much money....give it to poor people"
It has to do with looking at the current policies and procedures that have enabled the wealthy to accumulate a larger and larger share of available wealth and asking " Do we need to keep giving them this advantage?"

 

[MikeK]

Yaaaa yaaaaa yaaaaaaa - they pay nearly all the taxes, but so what? Just because they go to school longer, work harder, and are smarter, who says they should have more money than the average joe?

Intelligence, education and hard work can indeed enhance one's chances of acquiring wealth. But because there is a distinct difference between rational ambition and insatiable greed there is an attending difference between reasonable wealth and excessive wealth. It is important that you acknowledge and contemplate those differences and include the conclusions in your thoughts about our present economic situation.

If you are an "average Joe" it is a serious mistake for you to believe most of the fortunes accumulated by today's uber-rich are the product of superior intelligence, assiduous study and hard work. The fact is most of the redistribution of the Nation's wealth resource was facilitated by slick financial maneuvers and manipulations which, prior to certain deregulations of the banking and finance industries and certain corporate activities, were illegal -- and for good reason.

One such example is the sub-prime mortgage debacle, which has bankrupted and made homeless many millions of average joes while making dozens of mortgage bankers excessively wealthy (in the billions of dollars). Another example has been the practice of bankers using depositors' money to gamble in the stock market resulting in hundreds of bank failures the cost of which ultimately transfers to the taxpayers (you and me) via the FDIC. But some of the gamblers walked away with vast fortunes.

 

[spectrumc01]

How quickly Enron is forgotten.

 

[geauxtohell]

I've yet to hear of one billionaire being taxed into the poor house.

As it stands, anything that thinks they get to live anywhere "rent free" has been sold a tremendous load of bullshit.

It cost money to make this country work. Whether people want to admit it or not.

 

[MikeK]

[irony]

Yaaaa yaaaaa yaaaaaaa - they pay nearly all the taxes, but so what? Just because they go to school longer, work harder, and are smarter, who says they should have more money than the average joe? And what do they ever do for us regular folks - besides give us jobs, provide capital for our society, and support our charities?

Jobs are created by a demand for products and services, not by those who profit from the demand. Without demand the employers would not exist.

The capital (taxes) that our society operates on derives from every citizen whose income is sufficient to qualify for assessment. The size of the assessment occurs in proportion to the size of the income. (I.e., Progressive taxation.)

While it might appear that the rich are more charitable than are "average Joes" the fact is the size of their individual contributions are impressive because they have much larger tax deductions.

 

[Patrick2]

[irony]

Yaaaa yaaaaa yaaaaaaa - they pay nearly all the taxes, but so what? Just because they go to school longer, work harder, and are smarter, who says they should have more money than the average joe? And what do they ever do for us regular folks - besides give us jobs, provide capital for our society, and support our charities?

Jobs are created by a demand for products and services, not by those who profit from the demand. Without demand the employers would not exist.

Actually, it's not that simple. Nobody demanded a cell phone before they existed. Entrepreneurial people conceive of a good or service. People with capital to invest, frequently rich people, take a risk and invest in bringing the product to market. If it succeeds, and production ramps up, people are hired. For some ideas, hundreds of thousands of people might be hired, particularly considering secondary effects of people being hired because of spending of the original jobholders. Now, reread this paragraph and see what the genesis of the jobs was.

The capital (taxes) that our society operates on derives from every citizen whose income is sufficient to qualify for assessment. The size of the assessment occurs in proportion to the size of the income. (I.e., Progressive taxation.)

That's not written in stone and handed down by Moses from Mount Sinai - it might just as well be a flat tax, which might work better for all involved.

While it might appear that the rich are more charitable than are "average Joes" the fact is the size of their individual contributions are impressive because they have much larger tax deductions.

Proof? Citations?

 

[Wiseacre]

[irony]

Yaaaa yaaaaa yaaaaaaa - they pay nearly all the taxes, but so what? Just because they go to school longer, work harder, and are smarter, who says they should have more money than the average joe? And what do they ever do for us regular folks - besides give us jobs, provide capital for our society, and support our charities?

Jobs are created by a demand for products and services, not by those who profit from the demand. Without demand the employers would not exist.
The capital (taxes) that our society operates on derives from every citizen whose income is sufficient to qualify for assessment. The size of the assessment occurs in proportion to the size of the income. (I.e., Progressive taxation.)

While it might appear that the rich are more charitable than are "average Joes" the fact is the size of their individual contributions are impressive because they have much larger tax deductions.

Just commenting on the bold part of your post. Sure, demand is a primary ingredient to growth, it is our biggest issue right now that is holding the economy back. BUT - it's not enough, capital is needed if you're going to start up a new company to meet that demand, or expand an existing business or increase your inventory and workforce. It's not that the economy won't grow at all if you raise taxes on the rich and on capital gains, but that the growth will not be as robust. It disincentivizes investment here from American and foreign investors, and instead makes other countries look more inviting.

For me, that's really the whole deal. It's just not a wise course of action at this time, maybe a couple of years down the road if the economy picks up and employment gets better would be a better time. Like when Clinton raised taxes in '93 and it didn't matter. I think it would matter a lot in 2011.