Three Simple Questions No One Can Seem to Answer About Gay Marriage

[Peach]

Those that allow it are liberal states, but those who have banned it are both liberal and conservative...hence it is not only conservatives who oppose gay marriage. And just stop with the California is not liberal shit. I mean that argument is so far out of the realm of reality you are not even in the same galaxy let alone solar system.

Back to the questions; whether liberal on many issues, those of certain faiths are dead set against gay equality. It was a Democratic Governor that signed Florida's gay marriage ban, when I was a child. As for CA, you may consider the death penalty "ultra liberal", I do not. CA is more to the left than much of the US, if that will ease your CA fixation. Still, gay rights cuts across political lines/labels when religious beliefs are involved.

Well confuckingratulations Peach...you finally got the fucking point of question #3. It's not a left/right issue even though the left insists on blaming the right.

I wrote this twice, you missed the first time. I know conservative gay Americans also. They own businesses and vote their bank accounts, not personal lives.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

So thus far we have one guy (CCJ) who has basically said "there isn't a legal argument to be made" (I agree), one guy (Sgt) who tried but failed, and Peach who thinks that California, Oregon, and Michigan are not liberal states cuckoo. So far the batting average sucks.

There are 30 States that define marriage as between one man and one woman. Federal Courts have NOT overturned those Constitutions. Further just because the Ninny 9th says something is no reason to assume it will remain true. The 9th is the most overturned court in the Federal system.

Unless the Supreme Court takes a case and rules that gay marriage is some how protected MY argument is not only valid BUT the law of the land in 30 States.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

8th Circuit Court of Appeals and 9th Circuit Court of Appeals have already ruled that Loving v. Virginia applies to same-sex marriage (see OP). Thus far no court has ruled that it doesn't. Next.

Show me what court case give the right to same sex marriage?

Ok Reb...go to the OP...see how the "8th Circuit Court of Appeals" and "9th Circuit Court of Appeals" are highlighted? That means they are links. Try clicking on them

There's a supreme court ruling on gay marriage?

 

[BluePhantom]

My answers would be that the 14th Amendment was never legally ratified, so it means little to me as a constitutionalist.

Well you are not a very good one then. July 9, 1868. Three-fourths of all states ratified the 14th Amendment in keeping with constitutional requirements. Next.

The legal definition of a marriage is the "legal union between one man and one woman as husband and wife." Singer v. Hara, 11Wash.APP. 247, 522 P.2d 1187, 1193

What incredible bullshit. Singer v. Hara went so far as the Washington State Court of Appeals. It applies to Washington alone. The 8th Circuit Court of Appeals and 9th Circuit Court of Appeals overrule Washington state courts. They set superior precedent in Perry v. Schwartzenegger (see OP) Nice try though. Next.

If a person has a Right to do something, they need not go to the government and forfeit that Right by asking for a license. The whole thing don't make a lot of sense to me.

No shit.

The real issue lies in finding out WHY gays want to marry.

Maybe because they have a constitutional right to.

You can find a preacher, Notary, judge, or whatever you like to conduct a ceremony and declare yourself to be married. Where people screw up is believing that if they are married, it obligates employers to hire them and insurance companies to insure them, etc. If you join a church, does it automatically mean you can pray before the class if you are a teacher? No, the Right will not allow you to "impose" your beliefs on society - even if 100 percent of them already believe as you do. Once the Right is reduced to a privilege, Uncle Scam will be putting all manner of limitations on it. THAT is how they justify the separation of church and state... too many people don't know how to differentiate between a Right and a privilege.

Marriage is a legal right. I cited four examples of SCOTUS case law. Next

I think that fairly addresses your questions. You may not agree, but that's the way it looks from my vantage point.

Well considering your vantage point is the same that said on the previous thread that gays want people to accept gay marriage because they want people to participate in their lifestyle, I am not so sure your vantage point is terribly convincing.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Show me what court case give the right to same sex marriage?

Ok Reb...go to the OP...see how the "8th Circuit Court of Appeals" and "9th Circuit Court of Appeals" are highlighted? That means they are links. Try clicking on them

There's a supreme court ruling on gay marriage?

No they are mixing apples and Oranges, the 8th circuit court ruled that marriage is a right. They are claiming the Government can not define what Marriage IS. The 9th ruled against California's amendment and it does not address the 30 States that have in their Constitution the definition of Marriage as between one man and one woman.

 

[BluePhantom]

Show me what court case give the right to same sex marriage?

Ok Reb...go to the OP...see how the "8th Circuit Court of Appeals" and "9th Circuit Court of Appeals" are highlighted? That means they are links. Try clicking on them

There's a supreme court ruling on gay marriage?

You didn't ask for a SCOTUS ruling. You asked what "court case". I gave you two.

 

[BluePhantom]

So thus far we have one guy (CCJ) who has basically said "there isn't a legal argument to be made" (I agree), one guy (Sgt) who tried but failed, and Peach who thinks that California, Oregon, and Michigan are not liberal states cuckoo. So far the batting average sucks.

There are 30 States that define marriage as between one man and one woman. Federal Courts have NOT overturned those Constitutions. Further just because the Ninny 9th says something is no reason to assume it will remain true. The 9th is the most overturned court in the Federal system.

Unless the Supreme Court takes a case and rules that gay marriage is some how protected MY argument is not only valid BUT the law of the land in 30 States.

Wait about three years. Currently, the highest courts that have heard cases on the issue are of the opinion that those states are enforcing unconstitutional law. If you REALLY think Kennedy won't vote in favor of gay rights, you are flat out delusional.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Ok Reb...go to the OP...see how the "8th Circuit Court of Appeals" and "9th Circuit Court of Appeals" are highlighted? That means they are links. Try clicking on them

There's a supreme court ruling on gay marriage?

You didn't ask for a SCOTUS ruling. You asked what "court case". I gave you two.

And neither prove your claim. The Government does in fact have the power authority and ability to DEFINE what Marriage is and has done so in 30 States. The 8th does not define marriage and so is useless in that regard.

The 9th is the most overturned court in the system and its ruling on California has no bearing on the other 30 States with Constitutions that state Marriage is between one man and one woman.

Unless the Supreme Court takes the case and rules specifically on the ability of a State to define Marriage it means nothing and my point stands and is in FACT the law of the land in 30 States.

 

[WorldWatcher]

States have a compelling interest in defining regulating and licensing marriage. As such they are free to define it in such manner as EACH Individual State feels is the best interest of said State, this includes the wishes of the electorate of said State.

The SCOTUS disagreed. If they hadn't, then they would have upheld the Virginia law which they overturned.

The 14th does not somehow convey special privilege to someone based on sexual orientation. If a State Constitution states that marriage is between one man and one woman that simply does not violate the 14th amendment nor does it deny equal access to the law to anyone.

The 14th guarentes equal protection under the law and protects all citizens from discriminatory and invidious laws, when challenged it is the States responsibility to provide a compelling government interest in why a discriminatory law is valid.

Same-sex Civil Marriage will confer no "special privilege" to same-sex couples that are not already available under the various laws to different-sex couples.

The argument that both coloreds and whites were treated equally was also rejected by the SCOTUS. Access to marriage by the individual was not how the court evaluated the law, they looked at how the couple was treated.

Pretty simple concepts.

I agree.


>>>>

 

[Peach]

The 8th Circuit Court of Appeals link leads to the California Prop 8 decision also. Here is a link to ca8:

U.S. Court Court of Appeals - Welcome

 

[BluePhantom]

Ok Reb...go to the OP...see how the "8th Circuit Court of Appeals" and "9th Circuit Court of Appeals" are highlighted? That means they are links. Try clicking on them

There's a supreme court ruling on gay marriage?

No they are mixing apples and Oranges, the 8th circuit court ruled that marriage is a right. They are claiming the Government can not define what Marriage IS. The 9th ruled against California's amendment and it does not address the 30 States that have in their Constitution the definition of Marriage as between one man and one woman.

Oh the 8th did a hell of a lot more than that. They ruled directly that banning gay marriage was a violation of the 14th Amendment as it grants protection and access to the law to one group of individuals and not another. The 9th upheld that opinion directly and in no uncertain terms. I suggest you read the full opinions (the links have been provided in the OP)

 

[bigrebnc1775]

There's a supreme court ruling on gay marriage?

You didn't ask for a SCOTUS ruling. You asked what "court case". I gave you two.

And neither prove your claim. The Government does in fact have the power authority and ability to DEFINE what Marriage is and has done so in 30 States. The 8th does not define marriage and so is useless in that regard.

The 9th is the most overturned court in the system and its ruling on California has no bearing on the other 30 States with Constitutions that state Marriage is between one man and one woman.

Unless the Supreme Court takes the case and rules specifically on the ability of a State to define Marriage it means nothing and my point stands and is in FACT the law of the land in 30 States.

U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals: U.S. Supreme Court again rejects most 9th Circuit decisions - Los Angeles Times

U.S. Supreme Court again rejects most decisions by the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Ok Reb...go to the OP...see how the "8th Circuit Court of Appeals" and "9th Circuit Court of Appeals" are highlighted? That means they are links. Try clicking on them

There's a supreme court ruling on gay marriage?

You didn't ask for a SCOTUS ruling. You asked what "court case". I gave you two.

OH yell the 9th are you kidding that's a kangaroo court at best. No surprise there.But I was thinking along the lines of supreme court rulings since any decision from a court of appeals will not be the law of the land.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

So thus far we have one guy (CCJ) who has basically said "there isn't a legal argument to be made" (I agree), one guy (Sgt) who tried but failed, and Peach who thinks that California, Oregon, and Michigan are not liberal states cuckoo. So far the batting average sucks.

There are 30 States that define marriage as between one man and one woman. Federal Courts have NOT overturned those Constitutions. Further just because the Ninny 9th says something is no reason to assume it will remain true. The 9th is the most overturned court in the Federal system.

Unless the Supreme Court takes a case and rules that gay marriage is some how protected MY argument is not only valid BUT the law of the land in 30 States.

Wait about three years. Currently, the highest courts that have heard cases on the issue are of the opinion that those states are enforcing unconstitutional law. If you REALLY think Kennedy won't vote in favor of gay rights, you are flat out delusional.

True. Kennedy authored both Romer and Lawrence. Indeed, Romer will likely be the template for the ruling striking down laws, amendments, and referenda prohibiting same-sex couples access to marriage law.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

You didn't ask for a SCOTUS ruling. You asked what "court case". I gave you two.

And neither prove your claim. The Government does in fact have the power authority and ability to DEFINE what Marriage is and has done so in 30 States. The 8th does not define marriage and so is useless in that regard.

The 9th is the most overturned court in the system and its ruling on California has no bearing on the other 30 States with Constitutions that state Marriage is between one man and one woman.

Unless the Supreme Court takes the case and rules specifically on the ability of a State to define Marriage it means nothing and my point stands and is in FACT the law of the land in 30 States.

U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals: U.S. Supreme Court again rejects most 9th Circuit decisions - Los Angeles Times

U.S. Supreme Court again rejects most decisions by the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

That’s more a consequence of ideology than judicial error.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

There are 30 States that define marriage as between one man and one woman. Federal Courts have NOT overturned those Constitutions. Further just because the Ninny 9th says something is no reason to assume it will remain true. The 9th is the most overturned court in the Federal system.

Unless the Supreme Court takes a case and rules that gay marriage is some how protected MY argument is not only valid BUT the law of the land in 30 States.

Wait about three years. Currently, the highest courts that have heard cases on the issue are of the opinion that those states are enforcing unconstitutional law. If you REALLY think Kennedy won't vote in favor of gay rights, you are flat out delusional.

True. Kennedy authored both Romer and Lawrence. Indeed, Romer will likely be the template for the ruling striking down laws, amendments, and referenda prohibiting same-sex couples access to marriage law.

Kennedy is 75 he could be dead before this goes to the supreme court.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

And neither prove your claim. The Government does in fact have the power authority and ability to DEFINE what Marriage is and has done so in 30 States. The 8th does not define marriage and so is useless in that regard.

The 9th is the most overturned court in the system and its ruling on California has no bearing on the other 30 States with Constitutions that state Marriage is between one man and one woman.

Unless the Supreme Court takes the case and rules specifically on the ability of a State to define Marriage it means nothing and my point stands and is in FACT the law of the land in 30 States.

U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals: U.S. Supreme Court again rejects most 9th Circuit decisions - Los Angeles Times

U.S. Supreme Court again rejects most decisions by the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

That’s more a consequence of ideology than judicial error.

Translation: legislating from the bench

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So thus far we have one guy (CCJ) who has basically said "there isn't a legal argument to be made" (I agree), one guy (Sgt) who tried but failed, and Peach who thinks that California, Oregon, and Michigan are not liberal states cuckoo. So far the batting average sucks.

There are 30 States that define marriage as between one man and one woman. Federal Courts have NOT overturned those Constitutions. Further just because the Ninny 9th says something is no reason to assume it will remain true. The 9th is the most overturned court in the Federal system.

Unless the Supreme Court takes a case and rules that gay marriage is some how protected MY argument is not only valid BUT the law of the land in 30 States.

Wait about three years. Currently, the highest courts that have heard cases on the issue are of the opinion that those states are enforcing unconstitutional law. If you REALLY think Kennedy won't vote in favor of gay rights, you are flat out delusional.

Currently, the highest courts that have heard a case about same sex marriage vis a vis the 14th Amendment held that Nebraska's initiative 416, and laws restricting marriage to heterosexual couples, do not violate the constitution. Prop 8 was overturned not because it violates the constitution but because it took away a right that previously existed under state law. That was what violated the equal protection clause, not the law in and of itself.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

And neither prove your claim. The Government does in fact have the power authority and ability to DEFINE what Marriage is and has done so in 30 States. The 8th does not define marriage and so is useless in that regard.

The 9th is the most overturned court in the system and its ruling on California has no bearing on the other 30 States with Constitutions that state Marriage is between one man and one woman.

Unless the Supreme Court takes the case and rules specifically on the ability of a State to define Marriage it means nothing and my point stands and is in FACT the law of the land in 30 States.

U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals: U.S. Supreme Court again rejects most 9th Circuit decisions - Los Angeles Times

U.S. Supreme Court again rejects most decisions by the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

That’s more a consequence of ideology than judicial error.

Are you saying that when SCOTUS rebukes the Ninth for ignoring precedent that isn't judicial error?

 

[BuddyColt]

My answers would be that the 14th Amendment was never legally ratified, so it means little to me as a constitutionalist.

Well you are not a very good one then. of all states ratified the 14th Amendment in keeping with constitutional requirements. Next.

The legal definition of a marriage is the "legal union between one man and one woman as husband and wife." Singer v. Hara, 11Wash.APP. 247, 522 P.2d 1187, 1193

What incredible bullshit. Singer v. Hara went so far as the Washington State Court of Appeals. It applies to Washington alone. The 8th Circuit Court of Appeals and 9th Circuit Court of Appeals overrule Washington state courts. They set superior precedent in Perry v. Schwartzenegger (see OP) Nice try though. Next.



No shit.



Maybe because they have a constitutional right to.

You can find a preacher, Notary, judge, or whatever you like to conduct a ceremony and declare yourself to be married. Where people screw up is believing that if they are married, it obligates employers to hire them and insurance companies to insure them, etc. If you join a church, does it automatically mean you can pray before the class if you are a teacher? No, the Right will not allow you to "impose" your beliefs on society - even if 100 percent of them already believe as you do. Once the Right is reduced to a privilege, Uncle Scam will be putting all manner of limitations on it. THAT is how they justify the separation of church and state... too many people don't know how to differentiate between a Right and a privilege.

Marriage is a legal right. I cited four examples of SCOTUS case law. Next

I think that fairly addresses your questions. You may not agree, but that's the way it looks from my vantage point.

Well considering your vantage point is the same that said on the previous thread that gays want people to accept gay marriage because they want people to participate in their lifestyle, I am not so sure your vantage point is terribly convincing.

You have every right to be wrong, but if you have a Right to do something, you do not need a license. When I have enough posts in that they let me post urls, we will come back to the 14th Amendment once again.