The Truth about Mormons

[Truthspeaker]

Have you ever lived in Utah?

yes

 

[Truthspeaker]

The problem I have with LDS, is the enormous amount of money they poured into my state to pass Proposition 8.

What's up with that?

I understand why people would be angry with us for our general opposition to gay marriage. That is our stance because we believe homosexuality is a sin that can be repented of and beaten, never to be tempted with it again, by applying the atonement of Christ in their lives.

 

[catzmeow]

Piece by piece he was given the rites and ordinances necessary and eventually was commanded to lead God's restored church. That is the doctrine.

Occham's razor, dude. I'm sure that's the story promoted by the church, but the symbols happen to be identical to those used in freemasonry, and the explanations given in the temple are virtually identical, as well. The simplest explanation is likely right. Smith must have been a very charismatic sort of con man, at the least. And of course, since members of the LDS church are discouraged from becoming freemasons these days, they are unlikely to discover the truth.

 

[sky dancer]

If Mormons want to baptize me after I'm dead and cremated, so be it. I'll already be in my next incarnation so it doesn't matter to me.

The motivation for the after death baptisms seem harmless enough to me.

 

[catzmeow]

yes

For what length of time, not counting the MTC?

 

[Truthmatters]

Mountain Meadows massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wyhat does the LDS teach you about the Mountain Meadows Massacre?

 

[catzmeow]

If Mormons want to baptize me after I'm dead and cremated, so be it. I'll already be in my next incarnation so it doesn't matter to me.

The motivation for the after death baptisms seem harmless enough to me.

I'm sure that for those who believe in a different faith, to baptize their loved ones after their deaths, into a faith they never espoused in life, seems the height of disrespect. Particularly when the people in question died heinous deaths at the hands of the Nazis.

 

[sky dancer]

I understand why people would be angry with us for our general opposition to gay marriage. That is our stance because we believe homosexuality is a sin that can be repented of and beaten, never to be tempted with it again, by applying the atonement of Christ in their lives.

That's why I am so happy to not be a Mormon. I'm Buddhist, and was married in a Buddhist monastery by a Lama and legally married in California.

Homosexuality is not considered a sin in my spiritual tradition.

What I think is obnoxious is your church thinking to impose your values on other people who aren't LDS.

Utah needs to stick to Utah's business.

I've counseled a couple of gay Mormons and they were the most confused men I ever met in my life.

One of them was married and was in the habit of getting drunk and having sex with a man and then MOVING HIS ENTIRE FAMILY out of town and out of state every time he lapsed.

 

[catzmeow]

What I think is obnoxious is your church thinking to impose your values on other people who aren't LDS.

Utah needs to stick to Utah's business.

I'm sure the church became involved because of the huge number of LDS faithful in southern california.

 

[Dr Grump]

I see Mormons as nice friendly people. They are a cult, but a nice cult. Not too many religions that are cults are nice. In fact, most a paranoid.....Mormons aren't...

 

[Truthspeaker]

I always find it so funny when someone gets "excited" to talk to a Jew about religion... lol... to me it's obviously no biggie given I'm pretty much surrounded by other jews, some of whom know a lot about our religion, some of whom know nothing about our religion and some, like me, who know a little about our re,ligion.. .and appreciate the things I get from it. I'll tell you the truth, though, I appreciate the whole chosen people thing, but I don't really subscribe to it because a) I think we're all loved equally; b) I think we all have an equal shot at paradise if we do good things; c) I find that the "chosen" thing has been used more to our detriment by people who hate us than for good, so I think it's fairly dangerous to either be treated as "chosen" or believe we're chosen.... particularly if, as in some branches of christianity where being chosen means dying fighting the anti-christ.

I find all peaceful beliefs interesting....

And I understand what you're staying about the baptisms... but we really don't like it. And I happen to know that right now there's a dialogue going on between some of our orthodox community and your leadership where it will hopefully stop where we're concerned. It's kind of a biggie to us.

Pleasure to meet you, btw.

Likewise a pleasure. There is also a wide misunderstanding of Jews, which has led to their persecution, of which we feel we can relate, since we also had an extermination order placed on us by the Governor of Missouri. A lot of us were murdered by intolerant, so-called Christians.
We also believe that everyone is loved equally by God, as quoted in The Book of Nephi chapter 28 "Wherefore all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile, both bond and free, black and white. And he remembereth the heathen, and all are made partakers of salvation. For he denieth none that he should come unto him but inviteth all that they should partake of his salvation."

When we use the phrase "chosen people" it doesn't mean that they are guaranteed paradise. We believe that they were chosen first to receive the Gospel and eventually will be the last to accept it, thus fulfilling the prophecy, the last shall be first and the first shall be last.
As for the baptisms, I heard somewhat about Jews being upset and I believe we stopped performing the ordinances for names in question because their families complained. So we wouldn't fight over it. These things have a way of working themselves out in the next life anyway.
There is so much more to it than just this life here.

 

[sky dancer]

Doc Grump--

What makes Mormons a cult?

 

[sky dancer]

Here is an organization for gay and lesbian Mormons

Affirmation: Gay & Lesbian Mormons

 

[Truthspeaker]

Occham's razor, dude. I'm sure that's the story promoted by the church, but the symbols happen to be identical to those used in freemasonry, and the explanations given in the temple are virtually identical, as well. The simplest explanation is likely right. Smith must have been a very charismatic sort of con man, at the least. And of course, since members of the LDS church are discouraged from becoming freemasons these days, they are unlikely to discover the truth.

So you say, but I think I know a little more about my religion than you do. there are definite differences between the symbols the masons use and the ones we use. and different meanings. some are the same, some are not.

 

[Truthspeaker]

If Mormons want to baptize me after I'm dead and cremated, so be it. I'll already be in my next incarnation so it doesn't matter to me.

The motivation for the after death baptisms seem harmless enough to me.

It certainly is harmless. But if someone tells us not to perform the ordinance on them or their family while they are alive, then we will honor their request.

 

[Truthspeaker]

For what length of time, not counting the MTC?

Not counting the numerous visits to family and friends, I have lived there for 1 month at a time. All combined I have spent at least a year physically in the state, but I am not sure why it is so important for you to know.
Mormons usually are attacked for not getting out. I live in San Francisco so I think I have a pretty fair view of the spectrum.

 

[Dr Grump]

Doc Grump--

What makes Mormons a cult?

Wikipedia sums it up nicely: New religions are often considered "cults" before they are considered religions by social scientists.

Some would argue Mormons have moved beyond a cult. Christianity and Islam were cults once, and most consider Scientology to be one now. The difference between a cult and a religion appears to be about 1000 years

Personally I think all religions are cults:O)

 

[Truthspeaker]

Mountain Meadows massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wyhat does the LDS teach you about the Mountain Meadows Massacre?

I tell you what, I am surely impressed with the questions you guys bring up. I can see why you haven't gotten a lot of answers to them before. Fortunately church history and doctrine are kind of my hobbies and passion if you will. I will get to this one but I gotta get home to my son's birthday party or my wives will kill me.
Be back on later this evening, so keep the questions coming.

 

[sky dancer]

It certainly is harmless. But if someone tells us not to perform the ordinance on them or their family while they are alive, then we will honor their request.

What is your view of other spiritual paths? Do you think that baptising others who are not Mormon is respectful of others?

Why does someone have to make a special appeal to be let off the hook with your baptisms?

 

[catzmeow]

So you say, but I think I know a little more about my religion than you do. there are definite differences between the symbols the masons use and the ones we use. and different meanings. some are the same, some are not.

Why do you believe this? You know nothing about me.