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And once again, the German armor was significantly better than ours and that didn't help them too much did it..
And there were many more Russian aircraft fully capable taking out German armor.
Thank you.
I do think the Soviet Union could have prevented the German Army from conquering it without any help. Virtually all of Germany's resources were concentrated against it in 1941-2 and the Western Allies had not gotten heavily involved, yet they badly outproduced Germany and blunted their offensive potential. My question is more whether or not there would have been a stalement or a German defeat from 1943 onwards without the Western Allies, particularly in view of the German armaments boom. Axis History Forum ? Could the Soviet Union have won by itself?
Interesting.
If we assume that the Germans would have had only one frontier, that one in the east, Germany would probably have won the war. In the last stage of the war, German troops fought in Italy, in France, on the Balkans and in the east.We talk about fools, and the Chief Fool appears.
No one suggests that the USSR won the war single handedly: only a fool would suggest that someone said that.
What was said was that the USSR, if the Germans did not develop the atom bomb, would have eventually won the war.
...[FONT=Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Times]Between 1933 and 1939, German domestic crude oil production nearly tripled to 4.5 million barrels per year. As was true of most countries in western Europe, Germany was rich in coal, but poor in petroleum. Under Hitler's orders, German engineers began working to produce synthetic fuels, mostly from coal and lignite, at an unprecedented pace. By 1941, synthetic fuel production had reached a level of 31 million barrels per year. Austerity programs were instituted long before the beginning of the war, and fuel bought from the Soviet Union and Romania was stockpiled against future needs.
Despite all those measures, though, there simply was not enough oil available in Europe to satisfy the huge requirements of a mechanized force in the service of a country with expansionist aims. A panzer division typically consumed 1,000 gallons (approx. 30 barrels) of fuel per mile traveled. Thus, despite the Draconian measures practiced by the Wehrmacht, it quickly became clear that optimum German tactics would have to be modified to operate within the limits of available resources. That, as much as any other practical or theoretical factors, led to the conception and practice of the Blitzkrieg.
In fact, it is difficult to really overstate the gap that existed between German army fuel needs and the available supplies. The images of panzers rolling across Poland, the Low Countries and France are etched in our minds as characteristics of the new style of warfare Nazi Germany had created. It is easy to forget those panzers made up only a small part of the entire force, and that the German army was far from fully mechanized.
Though it varied from campaign to campaign and unit to unit, as much as 70 percent of German supply transport remained horse-drawn throughout the war. There were 5,375 horses assigned to each infantry division. In fact, as the war dragged on and petroleum became even more critical, horses became more important to the German war effort rather than less.
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...[FONT=Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Times]Meanwhile, oil also helped decide the Battle of Britain. The Royal Air Force, with access to America's oil, was able to utilize 100-octane aviation gasoline n its Spitfires and Hurricanes. That improved engine performance, allowing faster takeoffs, quicker bursts of speed, and larger payloads.
The Germans had to choose quantity over quality. Since producing the higher octane aviation gas would necessarily have meant lower output, the Luftwaffe command had 87-octane fuel used in their planes. The resultant deficiencies were most keenly felt in decreased "loiter time." With reduced engine performance, German aircraft could only remain in British airspace for 15-20 minutes if they were to have enough fuel to return to base. Considering how close a fight the Battle of Britain turned out to be, any increased performance by the Luftwaffe might well have proven critical to the battle's course.
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...[FONT=Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Times]The Soviets had sent over 4.5 million barrels of oil to Hitler before he sent his armies east in Operation Barbarossa. The Soviet Union was at the time the world's second largest oil producer. Despite strict rationing, however, it still had to import oil from the United States to meet its own needs. It was with a view to securing more oil supplies for himself that Stalin forced Hitler's acquiescence to his territorial demands in Romania. That was an ill-considered move, however, in that it certainly doomed the Soviet Union to German attack.
Most of Hitler's crude oil came from the Romanian fields at Ploesti, and Stalin's border land grab on that nation thus put the Red Army uncomfortably close to critical German supply lines. It was at that point Hitler irreversibly committed his nation to an invasion.
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...[FONT=Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Times]By the early fall, Maikop was in German hands, and by December oil was once again flowing from it, despite vigorous efforts by Soviet partisans and saboteurs. But Army Group A never reached Grozny or Baku. Hitler lost sight of his material goal and instead fastened on one of only symbolic importance - Stalingrad. He transferred eight divisions from Army Group A to B, and with its drive thus weakened, A was unable to break into the mountains. Neither could it resist the Soviet counterattack when it came, and Maikop had to be given up on 18 January 1943.
A campaign that was supposed to have lasted only weeks had stretched into months, then years. Fully half of Germany's oil reserves were poured into the eastern front. At the start of the 1942 drive, Hitler said, "If I do not get the oil of Maikop and Grozny, then I must end the war." He should have taken his own advice.
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For example, production of aviation gasoline had been reduced by 95 percent, which created yet another oil paradox. Without fuel, the fighters could not fly to protect the oil facilities, which meant more destroyed refineries and therefore less fuel. Rather than waste fuel taxiing, aircraft were towed to runways by teams of cows and horses.
Speer saw the inevitable end when he encountered a column of 150 trucks of the German 10th Army, each of which had four oxen hitched to it. Even many of the vaunted V-1 and V-2 rockets had to be hauled to their launching sites by horse-drawn wagons.
The Battle of the Bulge drained much of the last German fuel reserves. During its height, the advance guard of the 2nd Panzer Division was reduced to pressing on toward the Meuse River on foot after their tanks had run out of gas.
The primacy of oil was never better demonstrated that during the final battle for Berlin. During that bitter fight, literally thousands of German tanks, planes and guns sat idle in nearby warehouses for lack of fuel and lubricants needs to operate them.
Somebody asked what 'reconstituting a German division' would entail.
Simple: refueling it.
The primacy of oil was never better demonstrated that during the final battle for Berlin. During that bitter fight, literally thousands of German tanks, planes and guns sat idle in nearby warehouses for lack of fuel and lubricants needs to operate them.
Once again, the premise of this thread has no historical or factual basis of any kind. It is nothing more than fantasy speculation based on ignorance. Absolutely nothing there to support this incredibly ill considered fiction.
Once again, the premise of this thread has no historical or factual basis of any kind. It is nothing more than fantasy speculation based on ignorance. Absolutely nothing there to support this incredibly ill considered fiction.
Once again, the premise of this thread has no historical or factual basis of any kind. It is nothing more than fantasy speculation based on ignorance. Absolutely nothing there to support this incredibly ill considered fiction.
It's a shootshitters thread, duh!
Once again, the premise of this thread has no historical or factual basis of any kind. It is nothing more than fantasy speculation based on ignorance. Absolutely nothing there to support this incredibly ill considered fiction.
The hijacking of the thread's original premise is going very well, though, don't you think?
Once again, the premise of this thread has no historical or factual basis of any kind. It is nothing more than fantasy speculation based on ignorance. Absolutely nothing there to support this incredibly ill considered fiction.
The hijacking of the thread's original premise is going very well, though, don't you think?
The entire premise is utter and complete nonsense. End of story.
The hijacking of the thread's original premise is going very well, though, don't you think?
The entire premise is utter and complete nonsense. End of story.
Science Fiction: The point is to entertain.
Robert Silverberg wrote a book about the earth, 500 years after Columbus did NOT discover America (he and many more Eropeans were killed off in a prolonged Black Plague). Wish I could recall the title.
The hijacking of the thread's original premise is going very well, though, don't you think?
The entire premise is utter and complete nonsense. End of story.
Science Fiction: The point is to entertain.
Robert Silverberg wrote a book about the earth, 500 years after Columbus did NOT discover America (he and many more Eropeans were killed off in a prolonged Black Plague). Wish I could recall the title.
The entire premise is utter and complete nonsense. End of story.
Science Fiction: The point is to entertain.
Robert Silverberg wrote a book about the earth, 500 years after Columbus did NOT discover America (he and many more Eropeans were killed off in a prolonged Black Plague). Wish I could recall the title.
No you're wrong about that. The intention of the premise is to mischaracterize history.
Science Fiction: The point is to entertain.
Robert Silverberg wrote a book about the earth, 500 years after Columbus did NOT discover America (he and many more Eropeans were killed off in a prolonged Black Plague). Wish I could recall the title.
No you're wrong about that. The intention of the premise is to mischaracterize history.
Did you read the book?
Were you confused by the fact that America was discovered, and the fiction that it was not?
Does the fact that we did not fight Russia after WWII and the fiction that we did make your head explode?
No you're wrong about that. The intention of the premise is to mischaracterize history.
Did you read the book?
Were you confused by the fact that America was discovered, and the fiction that it was not?
Does the fact that we did not fight Russia after WWII and the fiction that we did make your head explode?
Perhaps you've simply neglected to read the link in the OP.
Albert Speer said that they also had a critical shortage of ball bearings that almost ended the war early
The entire premise is utter and complete nonsense. End of story.
Wow that is simple!
Now that you've enlightened me, I realize that although I need to work, my car is in the garage AND IT IS COMPLETELY FILLED WITH FUEL!!
I think I'll send it to go to the grocery store, and to pick up some laundry.
Thanks!
