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My first comment notwithstanding, this kind of presumes there ever really was this "civil discourse" thing we've been hearing hyped as of late....If anything, the discourse, as "rancorous" as it is alleged to be today, is a far cry from that of the nation's founding.
In those days, you settled your heated disagreements by duel....How civil.
I imagine you would have been very happy in those days....
btw...
don't forget to spend at least an hour every day target practicing with pictures of your favorite democrats and liberals
rush demands it
Such hatred, I thought the President called for an end to this type of Bigotry, I guess it was "wink-wink", I guess the President said "everyone" but what was meant everyone on the "Right" must be stopped and now its time to implement the "Final Solution".
I bet your at the USMB waiting for Oddball to reply so you can prove your point that its the other side that is not "Civil".
There are people and ideologies that must be defeated, how do I compromise with you when you assume I target practice everyday with an image of Obama.
Have you read the Health Care bill? If you have'nt you should.
Me and My husband did and we drove ourselves to our townhall meeting and It was 43 miles away from where we live. We had nothing do with corporate lobbyists.
Are you talking about the union's (SEIU ) that was trucked in and given instruction's?
No, he is talking about you. The Left does not comprehend grass roots organizations because they organize from the top down for everything. They do this because so few people are really passionate about the things they care about, and the only way they can get people to show up is pay them.
When you first came on this board and 'claimed' to be a classic liberal, I thought you might add something intelligent. You lied, and have turned out to be one of the most uninformed right wingers.
Most grass roots organizations on the left, like environmental groups are bottom up.
Last year the tea partiers, many of them on the public dole, went from town to town on buses paid for by Dick Armey's Freedomworks. They went to town hall meeting mindlessly pushing for the insurance cartels' agenda, as pawns of their lobbyist founders, NOT the people. The 'movement' is funded by Koch Oil, one of the biggest polluters on the planet.
No I wouldnt cause I love my free country.I am not some sycophantic asshole who needs the government to wipe my ass.
Free country? You mean you support the insurance cartels freedom to have REAL death panels, deny coverage for treatment to people who have life threatening illnesses. Fellow citizens who played by all the rules and did NOTHING wrong other than contract a 'expensive' disease. American who diligently paid their premiums.
You love America, it's just AmericaNS you have contempt for.
Exactly. We saw the Death Panel in operation in Arizona, as Governor Jan Brewer took the liver that would have saved a citizens life away from him as he was being wheeled into the operating room. The very definition of Conservative Compassion.
No, he is talking about you. The Left does not comprehend grass roots organizations because they organize from the top down for everything. They do this because so few people are really passionate about the things they care about, and the only way they can get people to show up is pay them.
When you first came on this board and 'claimed' to be a classic liberal, I thought you might add something intelligent. You lied, and have turned out to be one of the most uninformed right wingers.
Most grass roots organizations on the left, like environmental groups are bottom up.
Last year the tea partiers, many of them on the public dole, went from town to town on buses paid for by Dick Armey's Freedomworks. They went to town hall meeting mindlessly pushing for the insurance cartels' agenda, as pawns of their lobbyist founders, NOT the people. The 'movement' is funded by Koch Oil, one of the biggest polluters on the planet.
Are you sure about that?
When you first came on this board and 'claimed' to be a classic liberal, I thought you might add something intelligent. You lied, and have turned out to be one of the most uninformed right wingers.
Most grass roots organizations on the left, like environmental groups are bottom up.
Last year the tea partiers, many of them on the public dole, went from town to town on buses paid for by Dick Armey's Freedomworks. They went to town hall meeting mindlessly pushing for the insurance cartels' agenda, as pawns of their lobbyist founders, NOT the people. The 'movement' is funded by Koch Oil, one of the biggest polluters on the planet.
Are you sure about that?
Yes...
Washington Post Links FreedomWorks, Tea Party, Koch Family
Several of the biggest efforts are led by established veterans in the conservative movement, whose organizations receive heavy funding from industry groups and sympathetic billionaires.
One of the most prominent organizers is FreedomWorks, a Washington-based advocacy group headed by former House majority leader Richard Armey (R-Tex.) that is also pushing to defeat Democratic climate-change legislation. FreedomWorks's major financial backers have included MetLife, Philip Morris and foundations controlled by the archconservative Scaife family, according to tax filings and other records.
One of the most visible groups is Americans for Prosperity, an anti-tax and anti-regulation group known for opposing smoking restrictions and for trying to cast doubt on global warming. The group launched a project called "Patients First" in June and has been conducting bus tours around the country to drum up opposition to the health-care legislation.
Public records show that the group is heavily funded by the Koch Family Foundations, a major contributor to conservative causes headed by two brothers who control Koch Industries, a Kansas-based oil-and-gas conglomerate. David H. Koch serves as board chairman of the Americans for Prosperity foundation.
Armey has come under fire from Democrats for leading FreedomWorks while working at DLA Piper, a firm lobbying on behalf of New Jersey pharmaceutical company Medicines Co. Armey announced Friday that he was quitting DLA Piper to protect it from "spurious attacks" over his role as a lobbyist.
Conservative Mainstays and Fledgling Advocacy Groups Drive Health-Reform Opposition - washingtonpost.com
FreedomWorks and Americans for Prosperity both originated from a campaign called Citizens for a Sound Economy, which split in two in 2004. CSE was set up by businessman David Koch (Koch Industries).[2] Citizens for a Sound Economy (grassroots machine) merged with Empower America (policy expertise) in 2004 and was renamed FreedomWorks
It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners.
Albert Camus
Are you sure about that?
Yes...
Washington Post Links FreedomWorks, Tea Party, Koch Family
Several of the biggest efforts are led by established veterans in the conservative movement, whose organizations receive heavy funding from industry groups and sympathetic billionaires.
One of the most prominent organizers is FreedomWorks, a Washington-based advocacy group headed by former House majority leader Richard Armey (R-Tex.) that is also pushing to defeat Democratic climate-change legislation. FreedomWorks's major financial backers have included MetLife, Philip Morris and foundations controlled by the archconservative Scaife family, according to tax filings and other records.
One of the most visible groups is Americans for Prosperity, an anti-tax and anti-regulation group known for opposing smoking restrictions and for trying to cast doubt on global warming. The group launched a project called "Patients First" in June and has been conducting bus tours around the country to drum up opposition to the health-care legislation.
Public records show that the group is heavily funded by the Koch Family Foundations, a major contributor to conservative causes headed by two brothers who control Koch Industries, a Kansas-based oil-and-gas conglomerate. David H. Koch serves as board chairman of the Americans for Prosperity foundation.
Armey has come under fire from Democrats for leading FreedomWorks while working at DLA Piper, a firm lobbying on behalf of New Jersey pharmaceutical company Medicines Co. Armey announced Friday that he was quitting DLA Piper to protect it from "spurious attacks" over his role as a lobbyist.
Conservative Mainstays and Fledgling Advocacy Groups Drive Health-Reform Opposition - washingtonpost.com
FreedomWorks and Americans for Prosperity both originated from a campaign called Citizens for a Sound Economy, which split in two in 2004. CSE was set up by businessman David Koch (Koch Industries).[2] Citizens for a Sound Economy (grassroots machine) merged with Empower America (policy expertise) in 2004 and was renamed FreedomWorks
It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners.
Albert Camus
And? How does that prove that the groups on the left are grass roots organizations? Or are you just saying they do it so you get to?
Yes...
Washington Post Links FreedomWorks, Tea Party, Koch Family
Several of the biggest efforts are led by established veterans in the conservative movement, whose organizations receive heavy funding from industry groups and sympathetic billionaires.
One of the most prominent organizers is FreedomWorks, a Washington-based advocacy group headed by former House majority leader Richard Armey (R-Tex.) that is also pushing to defeat Democratic climate-change legislation. FreedomWorks's major financial backers have included MetLife, Philip Morris and foundations controlled by the archconservative Scaife family, according to tax filings and other records.
One of the most visible groups is Americans for Prosperity, an anti-tax and anti-regulation group known for opposing smoking restrictions and for trying to cast doubt on global warming. The group launched a project called "Patients First" in June and has been conducting bus tours around the country to drum up opposition to the health-care legislation.
Public records show that the group is heavily funded by the Koch Family Foundations, a major contributor to conservative causes headed by two brothers who control Koch Industries, a Kansas-based oil-and-gas conglomerate. David H. Koch serves as board chairman of the Americans for Prosperity foundation.
Armey has come under fire from Democrats for leading FreedomWorks while working at DLA Piper, a firm lobbying on behalf of New Jersey pharmaceutical company Medicines Co. Armey announced Friday that he was quitting DLA Piper to protect it from "spurious attacks" over his role as a lobbyist.
Conservative Mainstays and Fledgling Advocacy Groups Drive Health-Reform Opposition - washingtonpost.com
FreedomWorks and Americans for Prosperity both originated from a campaign called Citizens for a Sound Economy, which split in two in 2004. CSE was set up by businessman David Koch (Koch Industries).[2] Citizens for a Sound Economy (grassroots machine) merged with Empower America (policy expertise) in 2004 and was renamed FreedomWorks
It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners.
Albert Camus
And? How does that prove that the groups on the left are grass roots organizations? Or are you just saying they do it so you get to?
That's your job to disprove. Maybe you can try the enviro-fascist approach.
And? How does that prove that the groups on the left are grass roots organizations? Or are you just saying they do it so you get to?
That's your job to disprove. Maybe you can try the enviro-fascist approach.
No it is not.
I already pointed out what happened, and your response is to try to point to the other side doing the same thing. I do not need to prove anything else in response, because you have more than succeeded in making my point, the Left thinks everybody does the same thing they do.
That's your job to disprove. Maybe you can try the enviro-fascist approach.
No it is not.
I already pointed out what happened, and your response is to try to point to the other side doing the same thing. I do not need to prove anything else in response, because you have more than succeeded in making my point, the Left thinks everybody does the same thing they do.
Yea, all the big oil producers, insurance companies, dirty energy corporations, and mining cartels support and fund the left. They're 'tree huggers' incognito.
No it is not.
I already pointed out what happened, and your response is to try to point to the other side doing the same thing. I do not need to prove anything else in response, because you have more than succeeded in making my point, the Left thinks everybody does the same thing they do.
Yea, all the big oil producers, insurance companies, dirty energy corporations, and mining cartels support and fund the left. They're 'tree huggers' incognito.
None of that changes the fact that SEIU payed their members to protest in favor of the ACA, nor does it change the fact that they bussed people in from out of town and denied actual residents of congressional districts access to town hall meetings.
As a matter of fact, it doesn't even change the fact that environmental activists engage in conspiracies, bribe and intimidate judges, and make up fake damages when they sue big oil for environmental damages.
Evidence of fraud mounts in Ecuadorian suit against Chevron - Sep. 13, 2010
http://hotair.com/greenroom/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/gonzales_v_chevron_8_3_07.pdf
Don't worry though, they are grass roots organizations, and are pure of heart.
Like I said, I have nothing to prove, and all you can do is point out that the other side does the same thing. The thing is, you are the one claiming that one side is grass roots, and the other is AstroTurf, yet all you keep doing is saying the right is just as bad as the left. My bet is that if you go back to my first post on this subject you will see that what I said was that the Left thinks the right is exactly the same, and that they AstroTurf just like the left does.
What exactly is it that I am saying that you do not like again?
Yea, all the big oil producers, insurance companies, dirty energy corporations, and mining cartels support and fund the left. They're 'tree huggers' incognito.
None of that changes the fact that SEIU payed their members to protest in favor of the ACA, nor does it change the fact that they bussed people in from out of town and denied actual residents of congressional districts access to town hall meetings.
As a matter of fact, it doesn't even change the fact that environmental activists engage in conspiracies, bribe and intimidate judges, and make up fake damages when they sue big oil for environmental damages.
Evidence of fraud mounts in Ecuadorian suit against Chevron - Sep. 13, 2010
http://hotair.com/greenroom/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/gonzales_v_chevron_8_3_07.pdf
Don't worry though, they are grass roots organizations, and are pure of heart.
Like I said, I have nothing to prove, and all you can do is point out that the other side does the same thing. The thing is, you are the one claiming that one side is grass roots, and the other is AstroTurf, yet all you keep doing is saying the right is just as bad as the left. My bet is that if you go back to my first post on this subject you will see that what I said was that the Left thinks the right is exactly the same, and that they AstroTurf just like the left does.
What exactly is it that I am saying that you do not like again?
Albert Camus said: "It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners."
WHY is the right always ON the side of the executioners?
WHY is the right always ON the side of the BIG guy over the little guy?
WHY is the right always ON the side of oligarchy over the individual?
Free country? You mean you support the insurance cartels freedom to have REAL death panels, deny coverage for treatment to people who have life threatening illnesses. Fellow citizens who played by all the rules and did NOTHING wrong other than contract a 'expensive' disease. American who diligently paid their premiums.
You love America, it's just AmericaNS you have contempt for.
You mean the health care industry that was the envy of the world? Yes I loved it.
So you don't have any problem with insurance corporations being controlled by Wall Street investors who severely punish companies who pay out too much money for medical treatments?
The American people are not stockholders, we are STAKEholders. Intelligent people understand the difference.
America may have great medical schools and research centers, but the medical outcomes FOR American citizens is a different story.
The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems
1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
41 New Zealand
42 Bahrain
43 Croatia
44 Qatar
45 Kuwait
46 Barbados
47 Thailand
48 Czech Republic
49 Malaysia
50 Poland
Jared Lee Loughner "hates Bush", but he's blamed for being a Tea Party shooter.
Fuller blames Republicans and then says "you're dead."
OK, so here's what I'm starting to see about liberals. No matter what happens, it's conservatives' fault. Never theirs.
Marty's a smart guy.The shootings in Arizona have brought the concept of civility in political discussion to the front of message boards, pundit blogs, and all of the mainstream media formats. While sides can debate and scream over who is to blame, and who's rhetoric is the cause of all the hostility seen poltical disagreements, my impression is that the current state has nothing to do with a persons beliefs, but how they sees the other sides proponents, and the motivations applied to the people on the "other side of the bench"
Listening or reading a person's position on a given topic, and thier opinion on the validity of the opposing postion on the same topic, one more often than not gets the feeling that said person not only thinks their opposites position is wrong, but they are "wrong" as a person in general. That those holding an opposing viewpoint are not just wrong on said point, but have something wrong with themselves at a basic level. The idea that a person just as rational and understanding as you are can hold an opposite position on some topic seems beyond the grasp of some people. It almost gets to the point that in order to justify your own position, some fatal flaw must be found in the person supporting the opposite, that there is no longer the concept of being "wrong" on a topic, but that there has to be some sinister underlying reason for someone to have an opinion differing from yours.
Now as I am not 250 years old, I do not know if this is the same way it always was in our political environment, that this is basically the status quo over 2 and a half centuries of bilateral politics. Maybe the internet has allowed for a more anonymous and vicous type of political commentator to flourish, and this has had an influence on more mainstream media types. Has our political arena gotten meaner? Are we as a people incapable of seeing someone holding a differing opinion than ours as holding a valid, albeit wrong, point?
This brings us to the question; Do you think that the people on the other side of the aisle can have an opinion and not be stupid/evil/greedy/facist/communist/sheeple/goverment agents? I know on some topics there are easily defined right sides and wrong sides, but most of our political discourse is on far greyer areas. Punishing murders is something everyone can agree on, but how to punish is anothering thing entirely. As an example, can reasonable people be on both sides of a debate on the death penalty?
When I was looking over the site, this is what convinced me to join.
Good, thoughtful post.
I thought you said you were a conservative.My first comment notwithstanding, this kind of presumes there ever really was this "civil discourse" thing we've been hearing hyped as of late....If anything, the discourse, as "rancorous" as it is alleged to be today, is a far cry from that of the nation's founding.The root cause of the lack of "Civil Discourse"
In those days, you settled your heated disagreements by duel....How civil.
I imagine you would have been very happy in those days....
btw...
don't forget to spend at least an hour every day target practicing with pictures of your favorite democrats and liberals
rush demands it
Go to minute five.
Now when will you stop pretending something else is being said.
This crazy young man is the only person responsible for the deaths and woundings.
What is being aksed of you by people on boths sides is that we turn away from violence in our poltical realm in an attempt to not give these crazed minds any fuel.
Why do you see that as a horrible thing to ask?
