The Obama's "it's not anmesty" amnesty EO: Volates the 5th amendment?

[M14 Shooter]

Correct me if I am wrong; if you do, please be sure to illustrate how.

To qualify for The Obozo’s “It’s not amnesty” amnesty program, you have to, among other things, prove you entered the country before 1-1-10.
That is, you have to prove you committed an illegal act to receive benefit from the Federal government
Doesn’t this violate your 5th amendment rights?

I expect the ACLU to sue at any moment.

 

[SwimExpert]

Illegal entry is not a criminal offense. Thus, self incrimination does not apply.

 

[Kosh]

Illegal entry is not a criminal offense. Thus, self incrimination does not apply.

8 U.S. Code 1325 - Improper entry by alien LII Legal Information Institute

 

[SwimExpert]

Illegal entry is not a criminal offense. Thus, self incrimination does not apply.

8 U.S. Code 1325 - Improper entry by alien LII Legal Information Institute

As you see, it is a civil offense. Not a criminal offense. One of the biggest failings of our immigration policy.

 

[TooTall]

Illegal entry is not a criminal offense. Thus, self incrimination does not apply.

As you can see, you can't even read.

8 U.S. Code 1325 - Improper entry by alien LII Legal Information Institute

As you see, it is a civil offense. Not a criminal offense. One of the biggest failings of our immigration policy.

8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien
Current through Pub. L. 113-185. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)

(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who
(1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or
(2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or
(3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties

Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of—
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.
Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.

 

[SwimExpert]

Illegal entry is not a criminal offense. Thus, self incrimination does not apply.

As you can see, you can't even read.

8 U.S. Code 1325 - Improper entry by alien LII Legal Information Institute

As you see, it is a civil offense. Not a criminal offense. One of the biggest failings of our immigration policy.

8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien
Current through Pub. L. 113-185. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)

• US Code
• Notes

prev | next
(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who
(1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or
(2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or
(3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties
Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of—
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.
Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.
(c) Marriage fraud
Any individual who knowingly enters into a marriage for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined not more than $250,000, or both.
(d) Immigration-related entrepreneurship fraud
Any individual who knowingly establishes a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, fined in accordance with title 18, or both.

Did you expect to accomplish anything by reposting the exact same thing that has already been posted?

 

[TheOldSchool]

Hey republicans, not everything that you don't like is a violation of the constitution.

 

[TooTall]

Illegal entry is not a criminal offense. Thus, self incrimination does not apply.

As you can see, you can't even read.

8 U.S. Code 1325 - Improper entry by alien LII Legal Information Institute

As you see, it is a civil offense. Not a criminal offense. One of the biggest failings of our immigration policy.

8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien
Current through Pub. L. 113-185. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)

• US Code
• Notes

prev | next
(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who
(1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or
(2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or
(3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties
Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of—
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.
Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.
(c) Marriage fraud
Any individual who knowingly enters into a marriage for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined not more than $250,000, or both.
(d) Immigration-related entrepreneurship fraud
Any individual who knowingly establishes a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, fined in accordance with title 18, or both.

Did you expect to accomplish anything by reposting the exact same thing that has already been posted?

Merely pointing out that you don't know what you are talking about when you say it is not a criminal offense. "Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed."

 

[SwimExpert]

Illegal entry is not a criminal offense. Thus, self incrimination does not apply.

As you can see, you can't even read.

8 U.S. Code 1325 - Improper entry by alien LII Legal Information Institute

As you see, it is a civil offense. Not a criminal offense. One of the biggest failings of our immigration policy.

8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien
Current through Pub. L. 113-185. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)

• US Code
• Notes

prev | next
(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who
(1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or
(2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or
(3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties
Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of—
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.
Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.
(c) Marriage fraud
Any individual who knowingly enters into a marriage for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined not more than $250,000, or both.
(d) Immigration-related entrepreneurship fraud
Any individual who knowingly establishes a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, fined in accordance with title 18, or both.

Did you expect to accomplish anything by reposting the exact same thing that has already been posted?

Merely pointing out that you don't know what you are talking about when you say it is not a criminal offense. "Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed."

So.....by you pointing out that it is a civil offense, you think you are proving the opposite? You are entitled to your own opinions. You are not entitled to showcase a duck and call it a wallaby.

Illegal immigration has never been a criminal offense in the United States, and that has been one of the big reasons our immigration policy is so weak.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"The Obama's "it's not anmesty" amnesty EO: Volates the 5th amendment?"

It's not 'amnesty.'

With amnesty one needn't again fear criminal prosecution for a given crime. That's not the case with those eligible for the president's deferred action, where the EO can be rescinded by a future president. Indeed, even in the context of the president's order, those currently participating might still be subject to deportation if the situation warrants.

As for the reference to the '5th Amendment,' that's ignorant and ridiculous.

Criminal suspects are at liberty to confess to a crime or otherwise admit to a wrong-doing; the state cannot compel criminal suspects to self-incriminate, where the deferred action program is voluntary, and consequently no 5th Amendment rights have been 'violated.'

Undocumented immigrants are allowed to apply for the deferred action after they've been detained without admitting to have committed any crime.

 

[Moonglow]

Illegal entry is not a criminal offense. Thus, self incrimination does not apply.

As you can see, you can't even read.

8 U.S. Code 1325 - Improper entry by alien LII Legal Information Institute

As you see, it is a civil offense. Not a criminal offense. One of the biggest failings of our immigration policy.

8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien
Current through Pub. L. 113-185. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)

• US Code
• Notes

prev | next
(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who
(1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or
(2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or
(3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties
Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of—
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.
Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.
(c) Marriage fraud
Any individual who knowingly enters into a marriage for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined not more than $250,000, or both.
(d) Immigration-related entrepreneurship fraud
Any individual who knowingly establishes a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, fined in accordance with title 18, or both.

Did you expect to accomplish anything by reposting the exact same thing that has already been posted?

Spam

 

[M14 Shooter]

Illegal entry is not a criminal offense. Thus, self incrimination does not apply.

8 U.S. Code 1325 - Improper entry by alien LII Legal Information Institute

As you see, it is a civil offense. Not a criminal offense. One of the biggest failings of our immigration policy.

8 USC 125 lists any number of fines/imprisonments for violations, as well as specifically states that:

Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.

Not sure how you think there's no criminal offense here.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Hey republicans, not everything that you don't like is a violation of the constitution.

I see you didn't even bother to try to meaningfully address the issue.
Not a surprise.

 

[TheOldSchool]

Hey republicans, not everything that you don't like is a violation of the constitution.

I see you didn't even bother to try to meaningfully address the issue.
Not a surprise.

I won't beat a dead horse for your amusement.

 

[SwimExpert]

8 USC 125 lists any number of fines/imprisonments for violations, as well as specifically states that:

Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.

Not sure how you think there's no criminal offense here.

Because there is nothing in federal statute that classifies illegal immigration as any class of criminal offense. There should be, but sadly there is not.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Illegal entry is not a criminal offense. Thus, self incrimination does not apply.

Entering the United States without approval is illegal. So is staying in the U.S. without permission after your visa or other authorized stay has expired. Even violating the terms of a legal entry can make your stay illegal.

The U.S. immigration law offers very few options to go from being illegal or undocumented immigrant to a U.S. permanent resident(with a green card). We briefly describe the most likely possibilities below, but you should see an attorney for further help.
Legal Options for an Undocumented Illegal Immigrant to Stay in the U.S. - AllLaw.com

 

[M14 Shooter]

Undocumented immigrants are allowed to apply for the deferred action after they've been detained without admitting to have committed any crime.

Your response is ignorant and ridiculous as these people must prove they entered illegally -- that is, prove they commtted a crime -- before a certain date.

 

[M14 Shooter]

8 USC 125 lists any number of fines/imprisonments for violations, as well as specifically states that:

Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.

Not sure how you think there's no criminal offense here.

Because there is nothing in federal statute that classifies illegal immigration as any class of criminal offense. There should be, but sadly there is not.

And yet, the relevant section of the USC prescribes criminal penalties for violations, and THEN states that any civil penalties are in addition to those criminal penalties

 

[SwimExpert]

8 USC 125 lists any number of fines/imprisonments for violations, as well as specifically states that:

Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.

Not sure how you think there's no criminal offense here.

Because there is nothing in federal statute that classifies illegal immigration as any class of criminal offense. There should be, but sadly there is not.

And yet, the relevant section of the USC prescribes criminal penalties for violations, and THEN states that any civil penalties are in addition to those criminal penalties

All it says is that those penalties are in addition to any other penalties that might be assessed elsewhere in law. You apparently don't understand what you are reading. This particular snippet of statute is simply a clarification about how this particular section will interact with other portions of statute that may exist now or may come about in the future. Such mechanisms are not uncommon. Why would such a thing be important?

Let's imagine for a moment that Congress finally gets their shit together and passes a reasonable immigration reform bill that makes illegal immigration a felony. That law might say something like: "Shall be punishable by imprisonment at least two years and no more than five years." Now, let's imagine Jose is arrested and convicted. Under the new statute he is sentenced to five years. The current statute, having the language it does, allows for an additional penalty on top of the maximum under the new statute.

 

[TooTall]

Illegal entry is not a criminal offense. Thus, self incrimination does not apply.

As you can see, you can't even read.

8 U.S. Code 1325 - Improper entry by alien LII Legal Information Institute

As you see, it is a civil offense. Not a criminal offense. One of the biggest failings of our immigration policy.

8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien
Current through Pub. L. 113-185. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)

• US Code
• Notes

prev | next
(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who
(1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or
(2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or
(3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties
Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of—
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.
Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.
(c) Marriage fraud
Any individual who knowingly enters into a marriage for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined not more than $250,000, or both.
(d) Immigration-related entrepreneurship fraud
Any individual who knowingly establishes a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, fined in accordance with title 18, or both.

Did you expect to accomplish anything by reposting the exact same thing that has already been posted?

Merely pointing out that you don't know what you are talking about when you say it is not a criminal offense. "Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed."

As you can see, you can't even read.

8 U.S. Code 1325 - Improper entry by alien LII Legal Information Institute

As you see, it is a civil offense. Not a criminal offense. One of the biggest failings of our immigration policy.

8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien
Current through Pub. L. 113-185. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)

• US Code
• Notes

prev | next
(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who
(1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or
(2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or
(3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties
Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of—
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.
Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.
(c) Marriage fraud
Any individual who knowingly enters into a marriage for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined not more than $250,000, or both.
(d) Immigration-related entrepreneurship fraud
Any individual who knowingly establishes a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, fined in accordance with title 18, or both.

Did you expect to accomplish anything by reposting the exact same thing that has already been posted?

Merely pointing out that you don't know what you are talking about when you say it is not a criminal offense. "Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed."

So.....by you pointing out that it is a civil offense, you think you are proving the opposite? You are entitled to your own opinions. You are not entitled to showcase a duck and call it a wallaby.

Illegal immigration has never been a criminal offense in the United States, and that has been one of the big reasons our immigration policy is so weak.

I will try again:

(3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

A person is not fined and/or imprisoned for a civil offense, they are for a criminal offense.