The Nuking of Nagasaki: Even More Immoral and Unnecessary than Hiroshima

[Unkotare]

Interestingly, even historian George Feifer, who wrote a labored, lengthy defense of the nuking of Hiroshima, conceded that a strong case can be made against the nuking of Nagasaki:

A stronger case can be made against the second bomb [Nagasaki], especially its dropping so cruelly soon after the first. The Supreme War Council’s minutes reveal that Hiroshima’s destruction made no real dent in its thinking. After acknowledging that an awesome new weapon had caused it, the members essentially proceeded directly to their outstanding military concerns. Nevertheless, three days gave them too little time to assess the damage and the nature of the weapon that produced it, let alone to reflect on the larger consequences. (The Battle of Okinawa: The Blood and the Bomb, 2001, Kindle Edition, loc. 8979)​

Feifer also conceded that Japan was practically prostrate before Truman nuked her:

The country’s woeful condition before the bombs were dropped was hardly secret either. Virtually her entire merchant marine and Navy lay at the bottom of the Pacific, while America alone, without the Royal Navy, had 23 battleships, 99 carriers, and 72 cruisers on hand in August. The Imperial Navy’s corresponding numbers were one, six, and four—and it had fuel only enough to sustain a force of 20 operational destroyers and perhaps 40 submarines for a few days at sea. Nor was sufficient food available for civilians who showed their ration cards in the shops that stood still. Relentless saturation bombing, easier than ever with the new bases on Okinawa and the feeble opposition from Japanese interceptors, was leveling Japan’s cities.​

The average adult existed on under 1,300 calories a day. As many as 13 million were homeless. Malaria and tuberculosis were rampant, especially in shantytowns rising in the urban ashes. Schoolchildren, barefoot in winter as well as summer, rooted out forest pine stumps for the war effort. The trees themselves were long gone. In Tokushima, home of many of the 6,000 troops lost on the Toyoma Maru, metal was so scarce that the bells of shrines were melted down, together with charcoal braziers, the sole source of heat for the remaining wood-and-paper homes. While huge numbers of Red Army troops mobilized to attack Manchuria—just as Tadashi Kojo had feared a year earlier, when his regiment was shipped from there to Okinawa—there was no hope of supplying the defenders even if the merchant fleet hadn’t been destroyed and the country’s industry wasn’t in shambles. Exhausted, slowly starving Japan was in no shape for further fighting. (Ibid., loc. 8862-8878)​

~~~~~~
Just love it. Wednesday not Monday but Wednesday morning quarterbacks pontificating on decisions made 75 years ago.

Why come to the History forum if you are opposed to studying and discussing History?

 

[fncceo]

Mass murdering defenseless civilians can’t ever be considered defensible

Hiroshima was a legitimate military target and had a significant Imperial Army presence of 40,000 military personnel, including the Japanese 5th Division and the 2nd Army Headquarters. The largest number of casualties in that bombing were military personnel. The nearby city of Kure was a significant Navy anchorage and resupply depot.

The city of Nagasaki was a major manufacturing center. The Orikami Munition works was a prime producer of torpedoes, ammunition, and aircraft engines, as well as major facilities for Mitsubishi Steel. It was also the home of a significant military garrison and a major supply line to the bulk of the defensive forces on Kyushu Island.

By, contrast, the conventional bombings of Tokyo using napalm killed many more civilians than Hiroshima and Nagaskai combined and was less of a strategic target by that point in the war.

Add to that, that prior to both nuclear bombings, the Allied Forces dropped leaflets on those cities imploring civilians to evacuate the area, The LeMay Leaflets.

"Read this carefully as it may save your life or the life of a relative or friend. In the next few days, some or all of the cities named on the reverse side will be destroyed by American bombs. These cities contain military installations and workshops or factories which produce military goods. We are determined to destroy all of the tools of the military clique which they are using to prolong this useless war. But, unfortunately, bombs have no eyes. So, in accordance with America's humanitarian policies, the American Air Force, which does not wish to injure innocent people, now gives you warning to evacuate the cities named and save your lives. America is not fighting the Japanese people but is fighting the military clique which has enslaved the Japanese people. The peace which America will bring will free the people from the oppression of the military clique and mean the emergence of a new and better Japan. You can restore peace by demanding new and good leaders who will end the war. We cannot promise that only these cities will be among those attacked but some or all of them will be, so heed this warning and evacuate these cities immediately."

 

[Unkotare]

ZERO old women and school girls were going to charge American soldiers with sticks. That was morale-building propaganda meant to bolster rapidly vanishing support for the war effort among a starving and utterly discontented civilization population.

 

[miketx]

Your uncle did not know that the Japanese had been ready to surrender weeks earlier, that Truman and his cronies knew this, and that Japan would have surrendered in a matter of days after the Soviets entered the Pacific War,

It's amazing how many people can tell the future ... in the future.

Knowing the future from the past, that's the trick.

In fact, in the final days of the war, the Japanese cabinet was torn between those who wanted to surrender with honorable terms and those who wanted to go down fighting and take as many yabanjin down with them as possible. I've listened to my friend's grandmother tell us stories about how they were being trained with spears as young girls in school to rush the invaders and go down fighting (she even showed us the spear). It is unknown how many school children would have done this in reality, but she was convinced, at the time, that she would follow her school friends into the fight if it happened.

It's impossible to know what was the final straw that broke the back of the Japanese hard-liners in the cabinet. Surely, the Russians entering the war was a factor, but the Japanese had a lot of contempt for the Russians, having decidedly defeated them previously, in 1905. I'm not convinced they saw it as a significant threat compared to the Allied invasion. I support that belief with the fact that even after the declaration of war by the Russians, the Japanese continued to mass their forces on Kyushu island to face a potential Allied invasion from Okinawa, they did not move any forces to the north to counter a potential threat from Russia.

But, the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki with the new weapon could not have been an insignificant factor in the decision to surrender unconditionally. I still believe that, at the time, the decision to drop the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a strategically defensible position.

Mass murdering defenseless civilians can’t ever be considered defensible. It was a war crime for which no one paid a price.

Perhaps the jap military should have stopped.

 

[gipper]

Mass murdering defenseless civilians can’t ever be considered defensible

Hiroshima was a legitimate military target and had a significant Imperial Army presence of 40,000 military personnel, including the Japanese 5th Division and the 2nd Army Headquarters. The largest number of casualties in that bombing were military personnel. The nearby city of Kure was a significant Navy anchorage and resupply depot.

The city of Nagasaki was a major manufacturing center. The Orikami Munition works was a prime producer of torpedoes, ammunition, and aircraft engines, as well as major facilities for Mitsubishi Steel. It was also the home of a significant military garrison and a major supply line to the bulk of the defensive forces on Kyushu Island.

By, contrast, the conventional bombings of Tokyo using napalm killed many more civilians than Hiroshima and Nagaskai combined and was less of a strategic target by that point in the war.

Add to that, that prior to both nuclear bombings, the Allied Forces dropped leaflets on those cities imploring civilians to evacuate the area, The LeMay Leaflets.

"Read this carefully as it may save your life or the life of a relative or friend. In the next few days, some or all of the cities named on the reverse side will be destroyed by American bombs. These cities contain military installations and workshops or factories which produce military goods. We are determined to destroy all of the tools of the military clique which they are using to prolong this useless war. But, unfortunately, bombs have no eyes. So, in accordance with America's humanitarian policies, the American Air Force, which does not wish to injure innocent people, now gives you warning to evacuate the cities named and save your lives. America is not fighting the Japanese people but is fighting the military clique which has enslaved the Japanese people. The peace which America will bring will free the people from the oppression of the military clique and mean the emergence of a new and better Japan. You can restore peace by demanding new and good leaders who will end the war. We cannot promise that only these cities will be among those attacked but some or all of them will be, so heed this warning and evacuate these cities immediately."

Nothing but war propaganda to justify mass murder.

 

[gipper]

Your uncle did not know that the Japanese had been ready to surrender weeks earlier, that Truman and his cronies knew this, and that Japan would have surrendered in a matter of days after the Soviets entered the Pacific War,

It's amazing how many people can tell the future ... in the future.

Knowing the future from the past, that's the trick.

In fact, in the final days of the war, the Japanese cabinet was torn between those who wanted to surrender with honorable terms and those who wanted to go down fighting and take as many yabanjin down with them as possible. I've listened to my friend's grandmother tell us stories about how they were being trained with spears as young girls in school to rush the invaders and go down fighting (she even showed us the spear). It is unknown how many school children would have done this in reality, but she was convinced, at the time, that she would follow her school friends into the fight if it happened.

It's impossible to know what was the final straw that broke the back of the Japanese hard-liners in the cabinet. Surely, the Russians entering the war was a factor, but the Japanese had a lot of contempt for the Russians, having decidedly defeated them previously, in 1905. I'm not convinced they saw it as a significant threat compared to the Allied invasion. I support that belief with the fact that even after the declaration of war by the Russians, the Japanese continued to mass their forces on Kyushu island to face a potential Allied invasion from Okinawa, they did not move any forces to the north to counter a potential threat from Russia.

But, the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki with the new weapon could not have been an insignificant factor in the decision to surrender unconditionally. I still believe that, at the time, the decision to drop the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a strategically defensible position.

Mass murdering defenseless civilians can’t ever be considered defensible. It was a war crime for which no one paid a price.

Perhaps the jap military should have stopped.

They tried to surrender several times. Dirty Harry told them to fuck off die. Unfortunately most Americans only know what the state run schools told them. So, their clueless.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Your uncle did not know that the Japanese had been ready to surrender weeks earlier, that Truman and his cronies knew this, and that Japan would have surrendered in a matter of days after the Soviets entered the Pacific War,

It's amazing how many people can tell the future ... in the future.

Knowing the future from the past, that's the trick.

In fact, in the final days of the war, the Japanese cabinet was torn between those who wanted to surrender with honorable terms and those who wanted to go down fighting and take as many yabanjin down with them as possible. I've listened to my friend's grandmother tell us stories about how they were being trained with spears as young girls in school to rush the invaders and go down fighting (she even showed us the spear). It is unknown how many school children would have done this in reality, but she was convinced, at the time, that she would follow her school friends into the fight if it happened.

It's impossible to know what was the final straw that broke the back of the Japanese hard-liners in the cabinet. Surely, the Russians entering the war was a factor, but the Japanese had a lot of contempt for the Russians, having decidedly defeated them previously, in 1905. I'm not convinced they saw it as a significant threat compared to the Allied invasion. I support that belief with the fact that even after the declaration of war by the Russians, the Japanese continued to mass their forces on Kyushu island to face a potential Allied invasion from Okinawa, they did not move any forces to the north to counter a potential threat from Russia.

But, the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki with the new weapon could not have been an insignificant factor in the decision to surrender unconditionally. I still believe that, at the time, the decision to drop the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a strategically defensible position.

Mass murdering defenseless civilians can’t ever be considered defensible. It was a war crime for which no one paid a price.

Perhaps the jap military should have stopped.

They tried to surrender several times. Dirty Harry told them to fuck off die. Unfortunately most Americans only know what the state run schools told them. So, their clueless.

That lie has been debunked in this thread alone dozens of times.

 

[gipper]

Your uncle did not know that the Japanese had been ready to surrender weeks earlier, that Truman and his cronies knew this, and that Japan would have surrendered in a matter of days after the Soviets entered the Pacific War,

It's amazing how many people can tell the future ... in the future.

Knowing the future from the past, that's the trick.

In fact, in the final days of the war, the Japanese cabinet was torn between those who wanted to surrender with honorable terms and those who wanted to go down fighting and take as many yabanjin down with them as possible. I've listened to my friend's grandmother tell us stories about how they were being trained with spears as young girls in school to rush the invaders and go down fighting (she even showed us the spear). It is unknown how many school children would have done this in reality, but she was convinced, at the time, that she would follow her school friends into the fight if it happened.

It's impossible to know what was the final straw that broke the back of the Japanese hard-liners in the cabinet. Surely, the Russians entering the war was a factor, but the Japanese had a lot of contempt for the Russians, having decidedly defeated them previously, in 1905. I'm not convinced they saw it as a significant threat compared to the Allied invasion. I support that belief with the fact that even after the declaration of war by the Russians, the Japanese continued to mass their forces on Kyushu island to face a potential Allied invasion from Okinawa, they did not move any forces to the north to counter a potential threat from Russia.

But, the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki with the new weapon could not have been an insignificant factor in the decision to surrender unconditionally. I still believe that, at the time, the decision to drop the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a strategically defensible position.

Mass murdering defenseless civilians can’t ever be considered defensible. It was a war crime for which no one paid a price.

Perhaps the jap military should have stopped.

They tried to surrender several times. Dirty Harry told them to fuck off die. Unfortunately most Americans only know what the state run schools told them. So, their clueless.

That lie has been debunked in this thread alone dozens of times.

No. State duped dummies like you never learn.

 

[miketx]

Your uncle did not know that the Japanese had been ready to surrender weeks earlier, that Truman and his cronies knew this, and that Japan would have surrendered in a matter of days after the Soviets entered the Pacific War,

It's amazing how many people can tell the future ... in the future.

Knowing the future from the past, that's the trick.

In fact, in the final days of the war, the Japanese cabinet was torn between those who wanted to surrender with honorable terms and those who wanted to go down fighting and take as many yabanjin down with them as possible. I've listened to my friend's grandmother tell us stories about how they were being trained with spears as young girls in school to rush the invaders and go down fighting (she even showed us the spear). It is unknown how many school children would have done this in reality, but she was convinced, at the time, that she would follow her school friends into the fight if it happened.

It's impossible to know what was the final straw that broke the back of the Japanese hard-liners in the cabinet. Surely, the Russians entering the war was a factor, but the Japanese had a lot of contempt for the Russians, having decidedly defeated them previously, in 1905. I'm not convinced they saw it as a significant threat compared to the Allied invasion. I support that belief with the fact that even after the declaration of war by the Russians, the Japanese continued to mass their forces on Kyushu island to face a potential Allied invasion from Okinawa, they did not move any forces to the north to counter a potential threat from Russia.

But, the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki with the new weapon could not have been an insignificant factor in the decision to surrender unconditionally. I still believe that, at the time, the decision to drop the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a strategically defensible position.

Mass murdering defenseless civilians can’t ever be considered defensible. It was a war crime for which no one paid a price.

Perhaps the jap military should have stopped.

They tried to surrender several times. Dirty Harry told them to fuck off die. Unfortunately most Americans only know what the state run schools told them. So, their clueless.

So how do you know?

 

[fncceo]

Your uncle did not know that the Japanese had been ready to surrender weeks earlier, that Truman and his cronies knew this, and that Japan would have surrendered in a matter of days after the Soviets entered the Pacific War,

It's amazing how many people can tell the future ... in the future.

Knowing the future from the past, that's the trick.

In fact, in the final days of the war, the Japanese cabinet was torn between those who wanted to surrender with honorable terms and those who wanted to go down fighting and take as many yabanjin down with them as possible. I've listened to my friend's grandmother tell us stories about how they were being trained with spears as young girls in school to rush the invaders and go down fighting (she even showed us the spear). It is unknown how many school children would have done this in reality, but she was convinced, at the time, that she would follow her school friends into the fight if it happened.

It's impossible to know what was the final straw that broke the back of the Japanese hard-liners in the cabinet. Surely, the Russians entering the war was a factor, but the Japanese had a lot of contempt for the Russians, having decidedly defeated them previously, in 1905. I'm not convinced they saw it as a significant threat compared to the Allied invasion. I support that belief with the fact that even after the declaration of war by the Russians, the Japanese continued to mass their forces on Kyushu island to face a potential Allied invasion from Okinawa, they did not move any forces to the north to counter a potential threat from Russia.

But, the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki with the new weapon could not have been an insignificant factor in the decision to surrender unconditionally. I still believe that, at the time, the decision to drop the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a strategically defensible position.

Mass murdering defenseless civilians can’t ever be considered defensible. It was a war crime for which no one paid a price.

Perhaps the jap military should have stopped.

They tried to surrender several times. Dirty Harry told them to fuck off die. Unfortunately most Americans only know what the state run schools told them. So, their clueless.

So how do you know?

Apparently, he never went to school.

 

[miketx]

It's amazing how many people can tell the future ... in the future.

Knowing the future from the past, that's the trick.

In fact, in the final days of the war, the Japanese cabinet was torn between those who wanted to surrender with honorable terms and those who wanted to go down fighting and take as many yabanjin down with them as possible. I've listened to my friend's grandmother tell us stories about how they were being trained with spears as young girls in school to rush the invaders and go down fighting (she even showed us the spear). It is unknown how many school children would have done this in reality, but she was convinced, at the time, that she would follow her school friends into the fight if it happened.

It's impossible to know what was the final straw that broke the back of the Japanese hard-liners in the cabinet. Surely, the Russians entering the war was a factor, but the Japanese had a lot of contempt for the Russians, having decidedly defeated them previously, in 1905. I'm not convinced they saw it as a significant threat compared to the Allied invasion. I support that belief with the fact that even after the declaration of war by the Russians, the Japanese continued to mass their forces on Kyushu island to face a potential Allied invasion from Okinawa, they did not move any forces to the north to counter a potential threat from Russia.

But, the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki with the new weapon could not have been an insignificant factor in the decision to surrender unconditionally. I still believe that, at the time, the decision to drop the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a strategically defensible position.

Mass murdering defenseless civilians can’t ever be considered defensible. It was a war crime for which no one paid a price.

Perhaps the jap military should have stopped.

They tried to surrender several times. Dirty Harry told them to fuck off die. Unfortunately most Americans only know what the state run schools told them. So, their clueless.

So how do you know?

Apparently, he never went to school.

I went to middle school in the 60's, were they state run then?

 

[Doc7505]

Your uncle did not know that the Japanese had been ready to surrender weeks earlier, that Truman and his cronies knew this, and that Japan would have surrendered in a matter of days after the Soviets entered the Pacific War,

It's amazing how many people can tell the future ... in the future.

Knowing the future from the past, that's the trick.

In fact, in the final days of the war, the Japanese cabinet was torn between those who wanted to surrender with honorable terms and those who wanted to go down fighting and take as many yabanjin down with them as possible. I've listened to my friend's grandmother tell us stories about how they were being trained with spears as young girls in school to rush the invaders and go down fighting (she even showed us the spear). It is unknown how many school children would have done this in reality, but she was convinced, at the time, that she would follow her school friends into the fight if it happened.

It's impossible to know what was the final straw that broke the back of the Japanese hard-liners in the cabinet. Surely, the Russians entering the war was a factor, but the Japanese had a lot of contempt for the Russians, having decidedly defeated them previously, in 1905. I'm not convinced they saw it as a significant threat compared to the Allied invasion. I support that belief with the fact that even after the declaration of war by the Russians, the Japanese continued to mass their forces on Kyushu island to face a potential Allied invasion from Okinawa, they did not move any forces to the north to counter a potential threat from Russia.

But, the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki with the new weapon could not have been an insignificant factor in the decision to surrender unconditionally. I still believe that, at the time, the decision to drop the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a strategically defensible position.

Mass murdering defenseless civilians can’t ever be considered defensible. It was a war crime for which no one paid a price.

~~~~~~
You're correct, but where do you start the throwing of stones. Do you begin with the Jewish diaspora, Armenian genocide, Holomodor, The Nazi Death camps that killed millions, the Allied joint firebombing bombing of Hamburg, Dresden, Wesel, Nürnberg or Würzburg. Where and who do you point fingers. War is dirty, horrible and grisly and it's done by both sides, by order or by happenstance. Does it make it right? No! but don't go blaming Truman or America for the killing by Atomic bomb. . Had Nazi Germany, or Japan developed the Nuclear or Plutonium bombs, rest assured we'd be speaking German East of the Mississippi and Japanese West of the Big Mo...

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Interestingly, even historian George Feifer, who wrote a labored, lengthy defense of the nuking of Hiroshima, conceded that a strong case can be made against the nuking of Nagasaki:

A stronger case can be made against the second bomb [Nagasaki], especially its dropping so cruelly soon after the first. The Supreme War Council’s minutes reveal that Hiroshima’s destruction made no real dent in its thinking. After acknowledging that an awesome new weapon had caused it, the members essentially proceeded directly to their outstanding military concerns. Nevertheless, three days gave them too little time to assess the damage and the nature of the weapon that produced it, let alone to reflect on the larger consequences. (The Battle of Okinawa: The Blood and the Bomb, 2001, Kindle Edition, loc. 8979)​

Feifer also conceded that Japan was practically prostrate before Truman nuked her:

The country’s woeful condition before the bombs were dropped was hardly secret either. Virtually her entire merchant marine and Navy lay at the bottom of the Pacific, while America alone, without the Royal Navy, had 23 battleships, 99 carriers, and 72 cruisers on hand in August. The Imperial Navy’s corresponding numbers were one, six, and four—and it had fuel only enough to sustain a force of 20 operational destroyers and perhaps 40 submarines for a few days at sea. Nor was sufficient food available for civilians who showed their ration cards in the shops that stood still. Relentless saturation bombing, easier than ever with the new bases on Okinawa and the feeble opposition from Japanese interceptors, was leveling Japan’s cities.​

The average adult existed on under 1,300 calories a day. As many as 13 million were homeless. Malaria and tuberculosis were rampant, especially in shantytowns rising in the urban ashes. Schoolchildren, barefoot in winter as well as summer, rooted out forest pine stumps for the war effort. The trees themselves were long gone. In Tokushima, home of many of the 6,000 troops lost on the Toyoma Maru, metal was so scarce that the bells of shrines were melted down, together with charcoal braziers, the sole source of heat for the remaining wood-and-paper homes. While huge numbers of Red Army troops mobilized to attack Manchuria—just as Tadashi Kojo had feared a year earlier, when his regiment was shipped from there to Okinawa—there was no hope of supplying the defenders even if the merchant fleet hadn’t been destroyed and the country’s industry wasn’t in shambles. Exhausted, slowly starving Japan was in no shape for further fighting. (Ibid., loc. 8862-8878)​

Feifer also conceded that Japan was practically prostrate before Truman nuked her:

Guess they should have surrendered faster...……..

 

[Unkotare]

Your uncle did not know that the Japanese had been ready to surrender weeks earlier, that Truman and his cronies knew this, and that Japan would have surrendered in a matter of days after the Soviets entered the Pacific War,

It's amazing how many people can tell the future ... in the future.

Knowing the future from the past, that's the trick.

In fact, in the final days of the war, the Japanese cabinet was torn between those who wanted to surrender with honorable terms and those who wanted to go down fighting and take as many yabanjin down with them as possible. I've listened to my friend's grandmother tell us stories about how they were being trained with spears as young girls in school to rush the invaders and go down fighting (she even showed us the spear). It is unknown how many school children would have done this in reality, but she was convinced, at the time, that she would follow her school friends into the fight if it happened.

It's impossible to know what was the final straw that broke the back of the Japanese hard-liners in the cabinet. Surely, the Russians entering the war was a factor, but the Japanese had a lot of contempt for the Russians, having decidedly defeated them previously, in 1905. I'm not convinced they saw it as a significant threat compared to the Allied invasion. I support that belief with the fact that even after the declaration of war by the Russians, the Japanese continued to mass their forces on Kyushu island to face a potential Allied invasion from Okinawa, they did not move any forces to the north to counter a potential threat from Russia.

But, the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki with the new weapon could not have been an insignificant factor in the decision to surrender unconditionally. I still believe that, at the time, the decision to drop the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a strategically defensible position.

Mass murdering defenseless civilians can’t ever be considered defensible. It was a war crime for which no one paid a price.

Perhaps the jap military should have stopped.

They tried to surrender several times. Dirty Harry told them to fuck off die. Unfortunately most Americans only know what the state run schools told them. So, their clueless.

That lie has been debunked in this thread alone dozens of times.

No, it has not.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

It's amazing how many people can tell the future ... in the future.

Knowing the future from the past, that's the trick.

In fact, in the final days of the war, the Japanese cabinet was torn between those who wanted to surrender with honorable terms and those who wanted to go down fighting and take as many yabanjin down with them as possible. I've listened to my friend's grandmother tell us stories about how they were being trained with spears as young girls in school to rush the invaders and go down fighting (she even showed us the spear). It is unknown how many school children would have done this in reality, but she was convinced, at the time, that she would follow her school friends into the fight if it happened.

It's impossible to know what was the final straw that broke the back of the Japanese hard-liners in the cabinet. Surely, the Russians entering the war was a factor, but the Japanese had a lot of contempt for the Russians, having decidedly defeated them previously, in 1905. I'm not convinced they saw it as a significant threat compared to the Allied invasion. I support that belief with the fact that even after the declaration of war by the Russians, the Japanese continued to mass their forces on Kyushu island to face a potential Allied invasion from Okinawa, they did not move any forces to the north to counter a potential threat from Russia.

But, the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki with the new weapon could not have been an insignificant factor in the decision to surrender unconditionally. I still believe that, at the time, the decision to drop the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a strategically defensible position.

Mass murdering defenseless civilians can’t ever be considered defensible. It was a war crime for which no one paid a price.

Perhaps the jap military should have stopped.

They tried to surrender several times. Dirty Harry told them to fuck off die. Unfortunately most Americans only know what the state run schools told them. So, their clueless.

That lie has been debunked in this thread alone dozens of times.

No. State duped dummies like you never learn.

I have repeatedly posted the link to SOURCE documents that show conclusively all Japan offered before surrender was a ceasefire return to 41 start points and no concessions in China.

 

[Unkotare]

Old fool can’t even be bothered to read this thread.

 

[Markle]

Your uncle did not know that the Japanese had been ready to surrender weeks earlier, that Truman and his cronies knew this, and that Japan would have surrendered in a matter of days after the Soviets entered the Pacific War,

It's amazing how many people can tell the future ... in the future.

Knowing the future from the past, that's the trick.

In fact, in the final days of the war, the Japanese cabinet was torn between those who wanted to surrender with honorable terms and those who wanted to go down fighting and take as many yabanjin down with them as possible. I've listened to my friend's grandmother tell us stories about how they were being trained with spears as young girls in school to rush the invaders and go down fighting (she even showed us the spear). It is unknown how many school children would have done this in reality, but she was convinced, at the time, that she would follow her school friends into the fight if it happened.

It's impossible to know what was the final straw that broke the back of the Japanese hard-liners in the cabinet. Surely, the Russians entering the war was a factor, but the Japanese had a lot of contempt for the Russians, having decidedly defeated them previously, in 1905. I'm not convinced they saw it as a significant threat compared to the Allied invasion. I support that belief with the fact that even after the declaration of war by the Russians, the Japanese continued to mass their forces on Kyushu island to face a potential Allied invasion from Okinawa, they did not move any forces to the north to counter a potential threat from Russia.

But, the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki with the new weapon could not have been an insignificant factor in the decision to surrender unconditionally. I still believe that, at the time, the decision to drop the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a strategically defensible position.

Mass murdering defenseless civilians can’t ever be considered defensible. It was a war crime for which no one paid a price.

The London Blitz?

In total war, which WW-II was without question, civilians are part of the military. Who manufactures the tools of war?

 

[MaryL]

Everyone has 20-20 hindsight. Japan shouldn't have invaded China, for that matter, or attacked Pearl harbor, either. What ya gonna do?

 

[gipper]

Everyone has 20-20 hindsight. Japan shouldn't have invaded China, for that matter, or attacked Pearl harbor, either. What ya gonna do?

You can never justify massacring defenseless civilians.

 

[fncceo]

Everyone has 20-20 hindsight. Japan shouldn't have invaded China, for that matter, or attacked Pearl harbor, either. What ya gonna do?

You can never justify massacring defenseless civilians.