The Morality of Socialism and The Evolutionary Processes of Capitalism

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by Coloradomtnman, Apr 1, 2009.

  1. Coloradomtnman
    Offline

    Coloradomtnman Rational and proud of it.

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2008
    Messages:
    4,311
    Thanks Received:
    863
    Trophy Points:
    200
    Location:
    Denver
    Ratings:
    +1,495
    I wonder about human beings a lot. As an optimistc pessimist (meaning I think human beings are destined to cause their own extinction, but at least I'm enjoying the ride) I see the moral merits of socialism, but I also see the rational merits of capitalism.

    A society that takes care of it own, even the so-called undeserving at the sacrifice of the "deserving" so that all children have health care, that people don't go bankrupt from medical costs, where poverty is nearly extinct, where education is a right not a privelege, where one doesn't spend their youth and their lives to make already wealthy people wealthier, to have a better opportunity to do meaningful work seems moral to me. And it reflects human nature, right? We don't like that people are poor and we want to help them. We don't want children starving. We want people to be educated. We don't want to be beholden to megacorporations for almost every aspect of our lives.

    But,

    A society that relfects that nature of life has its merits as well. Life survives as it does because those which survive are best suited to survive. Human beings, as all life, achieves greater things because of competition. But there is the great possibility of failure.

    Obviously these are simplifications of both systems and neither system is perfect. And no where does one system exist in its pure form. Just look at what is happening in our economy currently. Ford, GM, and Chrysler would be going out of business, and may still go bankrupt and the ripples from their failures, if they do fail, will drag the economy even further down. Many people will lose their jobs, their businesses and their livelihood. But the government stepped in to help. Though that may be changng.

    Those who support capitalism justify it with ideas like pure freedom, meaning freedom to succeed as much as you can but also freedom to fail. They also claim that private and non-profit industries can handle the burden of the needy who fail (not always through their own faults) as a result of the capitalism. Its the humanitarian side of society that capitalism doesn't really address. In my opinion, I don't think that private and non-profit companies can handle all of society's needy people.

    Those who support socialism talk of the humanitarian side of socialism but don't mention how the economy will be driven, or how to keep the economy stable. Not that it is stable in a capitalistic economy.

    Since neither creates a steady state economy, and neither addresses all facets of human nature, so I wonder, how can we reconcile the humanity of socialism and the natural selection of capitalism? What if we can't? Should we choose humanity over the evolutionary process of capitalism and live at a materially lower quality of life, or vice versa and attempt to somehow take care of all the needy the capitalism produces?
     
  2. PubliusInfinitum
    Offline

    PubliusInfinitum BANNED

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2008
    Messages:
    6,805
    Thanks Received:
    725
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +726
    Golly... how positively open minded... No doubt you see the moral underpinnings in the right of Ebola to its' life while also seeing the rational merits in the search for a means to destroy Ebola...

    The prideful humility of the common moderate...

    ROFLMNAO... That is about as addle-minded a comment as anything I've ever read and I'm a fan of the mindless blather that Bobo can't discipline herself not to churn out and she's NEVER struck such a mindnumbing cord as you've managed in just your first paragraph.

    Where in the HELL are you getting the idea that someone is calling for not rederning healthcare to children? And how in the hell do you plan to provide healthcare without expense? ITS YOU PEOPLE THAT HAVE DRIVEN THE COST OF HEALTHCARE TO WHERE IT'S AT!

    What ideology is it, do you suppose which strap costly government regulations upon the manufacturers of those devices which services the medical arts? Who do you suppose it is that sues 'the insurance companies' of Doctors who were found treating a patient that had a negative reaction to treatment? Who do you suppose it is that forces Doctors to carry such insurance? Who do you suppose it was that brought the HMO into existance... on the grounds that HMOs would reduce costs, and result in the early treatment of potential illness BEFORE it became severe, thus expensive...?




    Ahh... aren't you a fountain of compassion and understanding?

    "beholden to Megacorporations for almost every aspect of our lives?"

    Who in the HELL is beholden to such corporations? Despite the assertion, ya failed to say who these poor indentured souls are...

    ROFLMNAO... Well this entire screed assumes that capitalism is cruel and careless of the suffering of others... Not true... Not even close to being true and as evidence of that I'd point out that NOT ONE WORD WAS INVESTED BY THIS IMBECILE TOWARDS ESTABLISHING IT AS TRUTH.

    It's as if Socialism somehow escapes the realities in which Calitalism exists, that it has some alternative source of funding... that there is some other set of principles at play in the socialist realm.

    She can't tell us where this funding is coming from; what these unstated principles are... she can't say how it may come to pass that the consequences of ignoring bed-rock principles which she LOVES to point towards as examples of Capitalism failing, will suddenly evaporate when socialism rejects THE SAME DAMN PRINCIPLES...

    LOL... what a LOAD!
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2009
  3. Coloradomtnman
    Offline

    Coloradomtnman Rational and proud of it.

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2008
    Messages:
    4,311
    Thanks Received:
    863
    Trophy Points:
    200
    Location:
    Denver
    Ratings:
    +1,495
    Whoa, dude. Chill out. I didn't take a side, or, I tried not to. At least I put something out there to discuss. How very conservative of you to criticize, insult, demean, and invalidate without producing your own constuctive opinion. Thanks for the thoughtful response and I hope never to discuss anything with you again unless you can try to be polite and respectful.

    This thread is clearly about opinions. And those opinions, one would hope, would reflect the subject of the thread. If you want to insult me and start a 'web' fight with me, start a thread and title it "Publius Infinitum hates Coloradomtnman" and post all the opinions you want on there. I wouldn't go on there and call you a bunch names and insult your intelligence, since its your opinion, but I might have a couple of things to say that I would put as politely and respectfully as I could.

    Something tells me that would be a lot more constructive.
     

Share This Page