The Kerry Effect

[jillian]

Kerry might have taken it if he took the Swift boat liars a little more seriously. But even with that the election was pretty close.

United States presidential election, 2004 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

CLose only counts in Hand Grenades and Horseshoes, Shallow.

I'm always amused how the Swift Vets get blamed for Kerry's loss.

Kerry did himself in on that one.

He tried to paint himself as something he wasn't.

"Only look at my three months in Vietnam where I got three Purple Hearts for superficial injuries! Don't look at my testimony in front of Congress where I accused soldiers of murdering babies. Don't look at the footage of me throwing my...errr someone's medals at Congress. Don't look at a 20 year congressional record of voting against the military. Don't look at my membership in VVAW, which once plotted to assassinate Senators. Don't look at me at the same anti-war rally with Jane Fonda. Don't look at ANY of that stuff. Just look at my three purple hearts. You are getting sleepy."

And then along come the Swift Vets, and they point out, "Uh, yeah, we served with that guy. What an asshole. He got out a week before a well-deserved fragging, truth to be told."

(For those not familiar with "Fragging", it was how enlisted men in Vietnam disposed of bad officers. Come to think of it, Kerry kind of looked like Nedermeyer from Animal House.)

In short, Kerry tried to paint himself as something he wasn't, and he got called on it. And unlike the GOP Congressman who gets caught with the hooker, he didn't even attempt to m ake a half-assed apology for it.

the swift boat liars SHOULD be blamed for Kerry's loss. well, his refusal to take them seriously until it was too late, anyway.

i'm always amused by how the right tried to take a war hero and make him a goat and took a goat (baby bush) whose daddy got him into the national guard so he wouldn't have to go to vietnam and tried to turn him into a war hero....

and then let someone with 5 deferments and his fellow neo-con PNAC extremists control our foreign policy.

 

[Mr_Rockhead]

Kerry might have taken it if he took the Swift boat liars a little more seriously. But even with that the election was pretty close.

United States presidential election, 2004 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

CLose only counts in Hand Grenades and Horseshoes, Shallow.

I'm always amused how the Swift Vets get blamed for Kerry's loss.

Kerry did himself in on that one.

He tried to paint himself as something he wasn't.

"Only look at my three months in Vietnam where I got three Purple Hearts for superficial injuries! Don't look at my testimony in front of Congress where I accused soldiers of murdering babies. Don't look at the footage of me throwing my...errr someone's medals at Congress. Don't look at a 20 year congressional record of voting against the military. Don't look at my membership in VVAW, which once plotted to assassinate Senators. Don't look at me at the same anti-war rally with Jane Fonda. Don't look at ANY of that stuff. Just look at my three purple hearts. You are getting sleepy."

And then along come the Swift Vets, and they point out, "Uh, yeah, we served with that guy. What an asshole. He got out a week before a well-deserved fragging, truth to be told."

(For those not familiar with "Fragging", it was how enlisted men in Vietnam disposed of bad officers. Come to think of it, Kerry kind of looked like Nedermeyer from Animal House.)

In short, Kerry tried to paint himself as something he wasn't, and he got called on it. And unlike the GOP Congressman who gets caught with the hooker, he didn't even attempt to m ake a half-assed apology for it.

the swift boat liars SHOULD be blamed for Kerry's loss. well, his refusal to take them seriously until it was too late, anyway.

i'm always amused by how the right tried to take a war hero and make him a goat and took a goat (baby bush) whose daddy got him into the national guard so he wouldn't have to go to vietnam and tried to turn him into a war hero....

and then let someone with 5 deferments and his fellow neo-con PNAC extremists control our foreign policy.

If you were not a draft-age male living through those times, you really don’t know what went on.

John Kerry enlisted but only because he was denied another college deferment to study overseas.

And, even then, he did not enlist in the navy, he enlisted in the navy reserves which, at the time, was not much different than going into the guards.

And, just like Bush, Kerry got an early out to work in politics.

Both men were officers and, according to the navy and guards, both men served honorably.

Personally, Kerry lost me forty years ago with his antics after he left active duty.

 

[Defiant1]

Quite often, after President Bush won his reelection, I've asked the people who voted for him the second time around, "why did you vote to reelect him?", and their answer always came back..."Because the Democrats put up Kerry as their candidate".....


Is Obama going to win his reelection in 2012 due to the "Kerry Effect"?

Due to there not being a strong, energetic, and charismatic Republican candidate that can pull Democrats over to vote for him?

Kerry might have taken it if he took the Swift boat liars a little more seriously. But even with that the election was pretty close.

United States presidential election, 2004 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If he had only shown us the rice scars on his ass..........



or the ears he cut off that gook kid he shot in the back. I bet he didn't throw those over the WH fence.

 

[editec]

Quite often, after President Bush won his reelection, I've asked the people who voted for him the second time around, "why did you vote to reelect him?", and their answer always came back..."Because the Democrats put up Kerry as their candidate".....


Is Obama going to win his reelection in 2012 due to the "Kerry Effect"?

Due to there not being a strong, energetic, and charismatic Republican candidate that can pull Democrats over to vote for him?

I doubt it.

It's the ECONOMY that is going to decide this election.

If the economy is still in the tank from about 6 months before the election and up to the elction, I doubt Obama has a snowball's chance in Hades.

 

[JoeB131]

the swift boat liars SHOULD be blamed for Kerry's loss. well, his refusal to take them seriously until it was too late, anyway.

What specifically did the Swift Boat guys say that wasn't true, exactly?

It wasn't that Kerry didn't take them seriously, it was that he really didn't have an answer. He couldn't whip out a medical report to show that his purple hearts were issued for serious injuries. He couldn't disprove their claims he was hip deep in the radical anti-war movement.

A point here. I don't think anyone begrudges Kerry that he manipulated the system. Anyone who serves in the military knows the officers are very good at giving each other medals. Yeah, maybe we'll toss that Sergeant an ARCOM once in a while, but medals are like foreplay for officer bromance.

The Swift Vets - made up from Gunner's mates to Admirals - complaint with Kerry is that after the war, he slandered them, and used his medals to give himself credibility that other members of VVAW didn't have, because half of them were outright frauds, like Al Hubbard, who never set foot in Vietnam.

A lot of them were nursing these grudges for 30 years. The title of their book, "Stolen Valor" cut two ways. Kerry stole valor by taking medals he didn't deserve, and then stole their valor by slandering them.

Now, Kerry could have cut this off at the pass by making a spirited defense of WHY he opposed the war, but that wasn't the theme he ran on in 2004. His theme was that he was the Democrat who would fight terrorists, even though he sided with Vietcong terrorists 30 years before.

i'm always amused by how the right tried to take a war hero and make him a goat and took a goat (baby bush) whose daddy got him into the national guard so he wouldn't have to go to vietnam and tried to turn him into a war hero....

Bush never claimed to be a war hero. And it's a slander on the millions of us who have served in the National Guard to denigrate it. National Guard troops (including the state militias that preceded it) have fought in every war America has ever been in. Including Vietnam.

and then let someone with 5 deferments and his fellow neo-con PNAC extremists control our foreign policy.

Wow. PNAC? really? Hey, you need to get the updated playbook. the Koch brothers are the center of all evil now...

Yup, Cheney got Deferments during peacetime. (He was born in 1941, his eligibility started in 1959 and by 1965 when they were drafting for 'Nam, he was too old.)

 

[geauxtohell]

Quite often, after President Bush won his reelection, I've asked the people who voted for him the second time around, "why did you vote to reelect him?", and their answer always came back..."Because the Democrats put up Kerry as their candidate".....


Is Obama going to win his reelection in 2012 due to the "Kerry Effect"?

Due to there not being a strong, energetic, and charismatic Republican candidate that can pull Democrats over to vote for him?

Thanks for a slightly different slant on something I've been saying.

To beat Obama, the GOP is going to need more then a bad economy. They are going to need a candidate that isn't going to turn off a bunch of voters.

Right now they are hurting for that.

 

[GHook93]

The left always says it was the swift boat, it was the swift boat that lost Kerry the election.

First, if Kerry was had a good rebuttal to "allegations," then Swift Boat wouldn't have taken off. He first started with no rebuttal, then he gave a weak one! Kerry gave them legitimacy and creditability!

Second, well before the Swiftboater stirred controversy, Kerry was caught in a lie. He stated he was attacked by South Vietnamese troops in Cambodia on Christmas on a mission. He stated this during the 80s as a way to preach against helping the Contras and saying helping Nicaragua will lead to us going into neighboring countries. He later backtracked this saying he thought he was in Cambodia. I guarantee getting caught in this stretching of the true got the swift boaters to look into his record.

Third, Kerry is the same asshole who viciously attacked AMERICAN TROOPS during his protests after his service was up! This is the guy that tossed away his metals. Sorry, but you might say the mission is wrong, but tossing your metals away and attacking the trues is dishonorable!

Fourth, his purple heart was rightfully attacked, since it was a minor injury treated with antibiotics and he was back in the field in ONE DAY!

Fifth, the bronze metal is where the most controversy surrounds. The bronze metal is a prestigious away for courage. If Kerry was a good leader he would have been able to use this attack on him to his advantage! Yet he failed there.

Lastly, I love it when the party that is now SLANDERING Gov Walker, Senator Ryan with outright LIES and DISTORTIONS that shows ZERO honor and is a MILLION times worse than the swift boat controversy are complaining about attack ads. Classic!

Quite often, after President Bush won his reelection, I've asked the people who voted for him the second time around, "why did you vote to reelect him?", and their answer always came back..."Because the Democrats put up Kerry as their candidate".....


Is Obama going to win his reelection in 2012 due to the "Kerry Effect"?

Due to there not being a strong, energetic, and charismatic Republican candidate that can pull Democrats over to vote for him?

Kerry might have taken it if he took the Swift boat liars a little more seriously. But even with that the election was pretty close.

United States presidential election, 2004 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Missourian]

Let's see how Perry does on Wednesday.

If he doesn't hit a homerun, we can revisit this concept.

 

[AmericanFirst]

Quite often, after President Bush won his reelection, I've asked the people who voted for him the second time around, "why did you vote to reelect him?", and their answer always came back..."Because the Democrats put up Kerry as their candidate".....


Is Obama going to win his reelection in 2012 due to the "Kerry Effect"?

Due to there not being a strong, energetic, and charismatic Republican candidate that can pull Democrats over to vote for him?

Kerry might have taken it if he took the Swift boat liars a little more seriously. But even with that the election was pretty close.

United States presidential election, 2004 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It was kerry that was the liar. Funny how dimwits think lying is the truth, bunch of idiots.

 

[Trajan]

It should not have been close at all....the Democrat, should have won in a landslide....people were very soured with the iraq war deaths of our men and women, gitmo and water boarding, the Abu Ghraib photos, how they passed the Pill Bill in the wee hours with bribes, cheney's energy task force still stealth, Halliburtan's vanishing money to Iraqi's, pundits on the payroll (armstrong williams) etc etc etc.

cheney's energy task force still stealth,

yes, when they first took office, cheney gathered a PRIVATE energy task force....somethings were leaked or conjecture was made that he laid out plans to get a gas line put in to afghanistan and many other things...like reason to go to war in iraq, with these energy heads like the Ken Lays of the industry and even with freedom of information act requests he still refused to tell us....

Ah yes , now I remember, the supposition that cheney was up to foul play absent, well proof, and the proof was supposed to come from making him tuirn over a trscript or other such material oof conversations he had with major players in the energy industry, which if I recall even former democrats gov. said was a no go, and would not be advisable.

the pres, veep etc. have a right to talk to people, gather advice, etc. and not have to make it public record. I defend this for Obama, Clinton one and all. If every single conversation that the pres., veep etc had or will have was made public they would be restricted in the conversations they would have and what real worth could be gained by having them. it was just more cheney hate inho.

 

[Toro]

Quite often, after President Bush won his reelection, I've asked the people who voted for him the second time around, "why did you vote to reelect him?", and their answer always came back..."Because the Democrats put up Kerry as their candidate".....


Is Obama going to win his reelection in 2012 due to the "Kerry Effect"?

Due to there not being a strong, energetic, and charismatic Republican candidate that can pull Democrats over to vote for him?

The "Perry Effect?"

I've had a few Republicans tell me that they think Obama has a real shot of being re-elected because of the candidates on the Republican side.

 

[Full-Auto]

Quite often, after President Bush won his reelection, I've asked the people who voted for him the second time around, "why did you vote to reelect him?", and their answer always came back..."Because the Democrats put up Kerry as their candidate".....


Is Obama going to win his reelection in 2012 due to the "Kerry Effect"?

Due to there not being a strong, energetic, and charismatic Republican candidate that can pull Democrats over to vote for him?

I think the anybody but Obama will be the election. Not the Kerry effect.

 

[Trajan]

this is the guy that fronted for Kerry, he defended Kerrys service record etc..*shrugs*

Mabus revokes imprisoned veteran’s Silver Star

By Gidget Fuentes - Staff writer
Posted : Wednesday Jul 27, 2011 15:54:20 EDT

SAN DIEGO — In a highly unusual move, the Navy secretary has stripped a Silver Star awarded to a retired captain and Vietnam swift boat veteran who is serving a federal prison sentence after admitting to possessing child pornography.

Navy Secretary Ray Mabus revoked the Silver Star, the nation’s third-highest valor award, which was awarded nearly 20 years ago to retired Capt. Wade Sanders of San Diego.

more at-
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2011/07/navy-wade-sanders-silver-star-revoked-072711w/

snip-

Navy Secretary Ray Mabus stripped the Silver Star from a Vietnam swift boat veteran, Capt. Wade Sanders:

"Had the subsequently determined facts and evidence surrounding both the incident for which the award was made and the processing of the award itself been known to the Secretary of the Navy in 1992, those facts would have prevented the award of the Silver Star," [Mabus spokeswoman Pamela] Kunze said.


SwiftVets revenge - Ben Smith - POLITICO.com

 

[Toro]

Quite often, after President Bush won his reelection, I've asked the people who voted for him the second time around, "why did you vote to reelect him?", and their answer always came back..."Because the Democrats put up Kerry as their candidate".....


Is Obama going to win his reelection in 2012 due to the "Kerry Effect"?

Due to there not being a strong, energetic, and charismatic Republican candidate that can pull Democrats over to vote for him?

Kerry might have taken it if he took the Swift boat liars a little more seriously. But even with that the election was pretty close.

United States presidential election, 2004 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It should not have been close at all....the Democrat, should have won in a landslide....people were very soured with the iraq war deaths of our men and women, gitmo and water boarding, the Abu Ghraib photos, how they passed the Pill Bill in the wee hours with bribes, cheney's energy task force still stealth, Halliburtan's vanishing money to Iraqi's, pundits on the payroll (armstrong williams) etc etc etc.

I don't think so.

The overwhelming issue in the election was national security. Given that Republicans are stronger on national security and the incumbent was a Republican, I thought the Democrats would have a hard time winning.

 

[Toro]

Also, I could see Obama winning re-election and the Republicans capturing both chambers of Congress.

 

[Charles_Main]

the swift boat liars SHOULD be blamed for Kerry's loss. well, his refusal to take them seriously until it was too late, anyway.

What specifically did the Swift Boat guys say that wasn't true, exactly? .

The Fact is they never proved anything the Swift Boaters were saying was lies. Not once, They just think now almost 8 years later they can get away with dismissing them as liars and blaming Kerry not responding to them on his loss.

Just another Example of Liberals having a real time living with in reality.

 

[Seawytch]

Romney's got to survive the Primary system. If he does that, it could be a close race between Romney and Obama. He could get some of the squishy bottom "independent" vote. Staunch conservatives (Tea Party) will vote for him...and hate it, but they'll do it anyway. Republicans will of course vote for him.

Perry, on the other hand, is going to have a harder time with the squishy bottoms. Tea Baggers will love his wanting to destroy Social Security...but the Independents, not so much.

 

[JoeB131]

Quite often, after President Bush won his reelection, I've asked the people who voted for him the second time around, "why did you vote to reelect him?", and their answer always came back..."Because the Democrats put up Kerry as their candidate".....


Is Obama going to win his reelection in 2012 due to the "Kerry Effect"?

Due to there not being a strong, energetic, and charismatic Republican candidate that can pull Democrats over to vote for him?

The "Perry Effect?"

I've had a few Republicans tell me that they think Obama has a real shot of being re-elected because of the candidates on the Republican side.

Actually, that sounds to me like a demotivator. A man who thinks he's going to die tomorrow will find a way to make it happen.

Of course, you are never going to feel your guy is good enough. It goes part and parcel with the MSM drilling into our collective consciousness that Republicans are mean because they don't see government as the solution to every problem, and sometimes you have to fix things yourself.

In this feild, we have a couple of successful businessmen (Romney, Cain) A couple of current or ex-governors (Perry, Romney, Huntsman, Johnson) a former speaker of the house, etc. These are people who have risen to the top of their chosen fields, and certainly accomplished far more than Obama did before he won the presidency.

 

[Toro]

Quite often, after President Bush won his reelection, I've asked the people who voted for him the second time around, "why did you vote to reelect him?", and their answer always came back..."Because the Democrats put up Kerry as their candidate".....


Is Obama going to win his reelection in 2012 due to the "Kerry Effect"?

Due to there not being a strong, energetic, and charismatic Republican candidate that can pull Democrats over to vote for him?

The "Perry Effect?"

I've had a few Republicans tell me that they think Obama has a real shot of being re-elected because of the candidates on the Republican side.

Actually, that sounds to me like a demotivator. A man who thinks he's going to die tomorrow will find a way to make it happen.

Of course, you are never going to feel your guy is good enough. It goes part and parcel with the MSM drilling into our collective consciousness that Republicans are mean because they don't see government as the solution to every problem, and sometimes you have to fix things yourself.

In this feild, we have a couple of successful businessmen (Romney, Cain) A couple of current or ex-governors (Perry, Romney, Huntsman, Johnson) a former speaker of the house, etc. These are people who have risen to the top of their chosen fields, and certainly accomplished far more than Obama did before he won the presidency.

A few Republicans have told me "Perry is dumb. He says dumb things." That's their words, not mine. I don't know anything about the guy so I'm going to watch the debates on Wednesday.

I think Perry has got a shot because I think the Republicans have a real shot. But I think Romney has a better chance if he gets through the primaries.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Even Obama's blackness won't pull him through 2012.