The Jews, The Arabs and The Ottomans

Discussion in 'Israel and Palestine' started by Isaac Brock, Nov 24, 2003.

  1. Isaac Brock
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    Isaac Brock Active Member

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    Flashback a few centuries ago. The Ottoman empire was actually a refuge for jews fleeing europe, settling in then palestine. Jews were integrating in the Ottoman Empire which had amazing tolerance for its era. In fact the Ottomans even had a volunteer Jewish army under the Sephardic house (ie. exiles from Spain) Read on young traveler:

    Courtesy of the Jewish Virtual Library, passed on by my friend, the 350 lb, israeli judo champ, Alex Belthel

    "Following the Ottoman conquest in 1517, the Land was divided into four districts and attached administratively to the province of Damascus and ruled from Istanbul. At the outset of the Ottoman era, an estimated 1,000 Jewish families lived in the country, mainly in Jerusalem, Nablus (Shechem), Hebron, Gaza, Safad (Tzfat) and the villages of Galilee. The community was comprised of descendants of Jews who had never left the Land as well as immigrants from North Africa and Europe.

    Orderly government, until the death (1566) of Sultan Suleiman the Magificent, brought improvements and stimulated Jewish immigration. Some newcomers settled in Jerusalem, but the majority went to Safad where, by mid-16th century, the Jewish population had risen to about 10,000, and the town had become a thriving textile center as well as the focus of intense intellectual activity. During this period, the study of Kabbalah (Jewish mysticism) flourished, and contemporary clarifications of Jewish law, as codified in the Shulhan Arukh, spread throughout the Diaspora from the study houses in Safad.

    With a gradual decline in the quality of Ottoman rule, the country was brought to a state of widespread neglect. By the end of the 18th century, much of the land was owned by absentee landlords and leased to impoverished tenant farmers, and taxation was as crippling as it was capricious. The great forests of Galilee and the Carmel mountain range were denuded of trees; swamp and desert encroached on agricultural land.

    The 19th century saw medieval backwardness gradually give way to the first signs of progress, with various Western powers jockeyed for position, often through missionary activities. British, French and American scholars launched studies of biblical geography and archeology; Britain, France, Russia, Austria and the United States opened consulates in Jerusalem. Steamships began to ply regular routes between the Land and Europe; postal and telegraphic connections were installed; the first road was built connecting Jerusalem and Jaffa. The Land's rebirth as a crossroads for commerce of three continents was accelerated by the opening of the Suez Canal.

    Consequently, the condition of the country's Jews slowly improved, and their numbers increased substantially. By mid-century, overcrowded conditions within the walled city of Jerusalem motivated the Jews to build the first neighborhood outside the walls (1860) and, in the next quarter century, to add seven more, forming the nucleus of the New City. By 1880, Jerusalem had an overall Jewish majority. Land for farming was purchased throughout the country; new rural settlements were set up; and the Hebrew language, long restricted to liturgy and literature, was revived. The stage was being set for the founding of the Zionist movement."

    What went wrong and what is different? Discuss.

    P.S. I have a few more articles if you want some "light" reading.
     
  2. Mustafa
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    Mustafa Guest

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    Originally posted by I Brock

    "Flashback a few centuries ago. The Ottoman empire was actually a refuge for jews fleeing europe, settling in then palestine. Jews were integrating in the Ottoman Empire which had amazing tolerance for its era. In fact the Ottomans even had a volunteer Jewish army under the Sephardic house (ie. exiles from Spain) Read on young traveler:"

    Brock your post intimates that the Ottoman Empire was a refuge for Jews fleeing Europe and that there was little or no Jewish population in the land of Israel before the Muslim Turkish Ottomans. Your Muslim Ottoman Jewish census numbers of the then Palestine were a bit skewed.

    "What the actual truth of the Jewish history of Israel is another matter of discussion"

    The fact that the Jewish people NOW have a democratically recognized country called Israel is not in dispute. The USA was once inhabited by the indigenous population of Indians but right now the land is a recognized country called America.

    The same facts apply to almost every country in the world. Europe itself has seesawed back and forth over the millennia with recognized borders not to mention the Arab country’s borders as defined by Great Britain.

    The Arabs and the Europeans have not gotten over the fact that Israel is a country that is partially occupied by non-Israeli Arabs.
     
  3. Isaac Brock
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    Isaac Brock Active Member

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    My post insinuated no such thing! Of course there were Jews in palestine, that was their ancestral home. However, after the fall of the Byzantium (not the final capitulation to the ottomans in the 15th century, but the initial dissolution of the Eastern Holy Roman Empire) the Jews did propogate all of europe as well as some areas in asia minor. During the late middle ages, a real backlash began against the jews, where they fled and were relative welcomed back back by the Ottomans culminating in the almost open-arms policy (for the time) to Suleyman II when he also provided naval protection to jewish merchants. The actual numbers, may be indeed be debatable as are most numbers, but the facts nonetheless remains same.

    I think you missed the entire point of my post. Jews and Arabs have had a history of tolerance for many centuries prior to the post-WWII era. I'm asking what in the current situation suddenly changes things.

    I would say it's because both sides want to forget history and install a country with one "true" relgion and with one "true" race. Why has the once unique cultural plurality gone to the wayside?
     
  4. mwbuccs
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    every jew in the world needs to be executed, no questions asked.
     
  5. ajwps
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    ajwps Active Member

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    You pose an interesting question.

    You said: "During the late middle ages, a real backlash began against the jews, where they fled and were relative welcomed back back by the Ottomans culminating in the almost open-arms policy (for the time) to Suleyman II when he also provided naval protection to jewish merchants."

    Actually the Turks were not as benevolent or open armed as you have stated.

    http://europeanhistory.about.com/library/prm/blsiegeofthemoles1.htm

    The Jews were sometimes treated well in every country they inhabited for periods of time but then when times became difficult in the land they lived, the Jews were blamed and either expelled, murdered or attempts made to convert to the faith of each nation.

    "The actual numbers, may be indeed be debatable as are most numbers, but the facts nonetheless remains same."

    The actual numbers of local census' taken centuries ago were always subject to local statistics based on the political needs of local officials. But the fact remains that the Jews and Christians were tolerated but punished for their faiths.

    "I think you missed the entire point of my post. Jews and Arabs have had a history of tolerance for many centuries prior to the post-WWII era. I'm asking what in the current situation suddenly changes things."

    That pre-WW2 Jewish/Arab tolerance was not quite as symbiotic as you seem to believe. Even before the 1920s, the Jewish indigenous population was constantly attacked by their nomadic Arab populations. The current situation arises from a time when the Arabs who were living in Israel enjoying the freedom of religion and enjoying modern western civilization were incited by their religious leaders to suddenly change a simmering war against the Jews into a full blown Intifada to completely dislodge the Jewish people from the earth. An analogy can be made of Germany before Hitler when anti-Semitism was subliminal and then after Hitler’s coming into a full war to annihilate the Jewish people and today that European anti-Semitism arising against the Jewish people all over again.

    http://www.uahc.org/books/collins.shtml

    "I would say it's because both sides want to forget history and install a country with one "true" relgion and with one "true" race. Why has the once unique cultural plurality gone to the wayside?"

    What history are you talking about in which they both want to forget? Israel has been a country of the Jewish people even though the different world armies temporarily possessed the land where the Jews had lived for 4000 years. Your ideation that there was some kind of a unique cultural plurality which existed in Israel has no bearing in reality. The land of Palestine has never been a goal of Islam as they never thought of such a concept or country as they could have done for millennia but simply didn't. The Arabs don't hide their intent in some vague language of peaceful coexistence, they simply and unequivocally state that there whole aim is to destroy the Jewish people even if they use their children as explosive torches to Allah. They dance in the streets and give candy out when their children burn and the Jews mourn their murdered people. Have you ever seen Israelis dance in the streets, howl and yelp or hand out candy when the terrorists and those around them are killed in targeted attacks?

    The fact remains without any doubt. Israel is a recognized country, just as America, Russia, France or Great Britain is today. If you want to take over America, you will have to attack them with your armies and take it away. If you want to kill all Americans and not desire their land, then simply fly commercial airplanes into their symbols of freedom or threaten to poison the water.

    Your question and basic premise is flawed. As long as the Jewish people remain on this earth, Islam and the Arabs will always be at war. This is their Qur’an directive.

     
  6. ajwps
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    ajwps Active Member

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    Originally posted by mwbucchole

    every jew in the world needs to be executed, no questions asked. John 8:31-59

    This moron exemplifies the loving Jesus Christ who forgives sinners and turns his other cheek. The same Jesus born a Jew, raised as a Jew and crucified by the Roman's who considered him a threat for his claims to be King of the Jews. So our friend mwbucchole would execute Jesus Christ of Nazareth, no questions asked.

    So the devil, father of the Jews, created himself. Then the fact that G-d did not create everything inlcuding good and evil and THE DEVIL is false to mcbucchole. G-d's own angel who seemed to father Jesus and the Jewish people.

    What a friend we have in Jesus
     
  7. mrbitterness
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    mrbitterness Member

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    Thank you Mr Brooks for the recaption. It helps.

    Because Osama learns his work well. "When he invokes the name Salah-al-Din, he is/was drawing inspiration from the great twekfth-century Muslim General who threw back the Crusaders and recaptured Jerusalem.

    In his videotaped statement released on Al Jazeera television, bin Laden said Americans should get used to suffering because ' our Islamic nation has been tasting the same for more then 80 years." He was referring to the dismembering of the Ottoman Empire, the last of the great Msulim empires, by the victorious European forces after WW1."
     

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