The Heart of the AGW Premise Fails Empirical Review.

[Billy_Bob]

A friend of mine asked me the other day what was back radiation capable of and if true, could it cause catastrophic warming. While the explanation of our deserts does a fine job of showing AGW a complete failure, I am taking a look at the molecular level as to why it can not cause this.

Lets go straight to the heart of AGW..

The premise is; energy absorbed by our atmosphere is re-emitted towards surface causing warming. The so called big player is CO2, that re-emits energy in a narrow band at 12-16um.

The problems come from several sources when it comes to energy transmission;

1. The electrical state of the molecule. Molecules will only accept energy in a negative state. In a positive state the molecule either reflects the energy or passes it. Each molecule also reacts differently to different wavelengths of energy. Not only does the molecule have to be in the right state it must also be in the range it is capable of reacting to.

2. The time energy resides within the molecule. Water has a very long residency time while CO2 a very short one. CO2 will not warm unless it collides with a warmer object (conduction), where water will absorb and use the energy to warm. Absent another warmer object, CO2 passes energy rapidly and can not warm.

3. The mass/mass conversion of energy. A mass emitting at -80 Deg F can not warm a mass that is warmer. The mass, as a whole, will lose energy more slowly logarithmicly to its surroundings simply due to the increase of mass.

In order to discuss this, one must agree on basic items. First, we must agree that all matter emits energy in all directions above absolute zero (0 deg K). Second, we must agree on how differing energy excitements affect one another. (This is the one which is not settled.) This is the crux of the AGW meme. Depending on the outcome of this determines the failure of the hypothesis, specifically any multiplier of effect (sensitivity).

SO.... How do two molecules, of differing temperatures, affect each-other. How does the energy emitted affect each molecule?

In my next post I will explain what I observe...

 

[CrusaderFrank]

But but but but but the altered data, after heavily weighting the heat "trapped" in the oceans and the record rise in Arctic temperatures up to -22F, clearly shows back radiation, er, or something

 

[Billy_Bob]

Differing types of matter react differently to all forms of energy.

There are so many iterations to this I need to narrow the scope.

SO for the purpose of this post how does the energy emitted from CO2 affect the surface of the earth and atmosphere..

 

[Billy_Bob]

Energy Absorbed by CO2 is emitted in three bands. In the spectral emissions chart below you will note two very narrow bands and one small band in the 12-16um band. (note: narrow bandwidth indicates very low energy residency time as the energy has no time to cool before it is re-emitted)

The spectral intensity of the first two bands CO2 emits is so low they are inconsequential as they carry little energy.

What effect does EM energy (blackbody) have on other gasses?

First we must determine wavelength, which will determine the energetic temperature. 16um = -80 Deg C.

How does energy emitted at -80 deg C warm anything? A black body will indeed absorb the energy it receives as a black body is always in a negative state. However, it is emitting energy at a much higher wavelength. When you apply energy, which is negative of the output energy you create a dampening state or cooling.

If you place a piece of steel in a chamber of CO2, at 1000ppm, heated to 400 deg F, its rate of cooling is unchanged from a chamber with no CO2. Now add water vapor to that chamber and the time increases. CO2 absent water vapor is a no go.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Think about this like a bowl of small marbles that is spinning. Now drop slower moving marbles into the bowl.. What happens to the marbles?

The movement of the faster ones will expel marbles throwing them off and/or it slows the unit as a whole.

If we look at sea water (grey body) the energy can not penetrate the skin layer. The water absorbs the energy at the skin layer, where evaporation is occurring at all temperatures above freezing, and the energy is thrown off.

In every occurrence, the energy fails to do as the AGW premise states and no multiplying effect is seen.

While energy is indeed being exchanged by all matter, there are factors which dampen or pass the energy having little or no effects.

 

[skookerasbil]

@www.whosnotwinning.com

Ahhhhhh Billy....information matters nada to the religion. They'll come back with some half-baked bullcrap and do the pidgeon pooping on a chessboard march.

 

[Billy_Bob]

@www.whosnotwinning.com

Ahhhhhh Billy....information matters nada to the religion. They'll come back with some half-baked bullcrap and do the pidgeon pooping on a chessboard march.

Its rather telling that none of our resident alarmist want to get into the actual mechanics of energy transfer and why we are seeing base line CO2 warming at 1/2 that lab LOG rate. The dampening effect is one they didn't think about...

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

A friend of mine asked me the other day what was back radiation capable of and if true, could it cause catastrophic warming. While the explanation of our deserts does a fine job of showing AGW a complete failure, I am taking a look at the molecular level as to why it can not cause this.

Lets go straight to the heart of AGW..

The premise is; energy absorbed by our atmosphere is re-emitted towards surface causing warming. The so called big player is CO2, that re-emits energy in a narrow band at 12-16um.

The problems come from several sources when it comes to energy transmission;

1. The electrical state of the molecule. Molecules will only accept energy in a negative state. In a positive state the molecule either reflects the energy or passes it. Each molecule also reacts differently to different wavelengths of energy. Not only does the molecule have to be in the right state it must also be in the range it is capable of reacting to.

2. The time energy resides within the molecule. Water has a very long residency time while CO2 a very short one. CO2 will not warm unless it collides with a warmer object (conduction), where water will absorb and use the energy to warm. Absent another warmer object, CO2 passes energy rapidly and can not warm.

3. The mass/mass conversion of energy. A mass emitting at -80 Deg F can not warm a mass that is warmer. The mass, as a whole, will lose energy more slowly logarithmicly to its surroundings simply due to the increase of mass.

In order to discuss this, one must agree on basic items. First, we must agree that all matter emits energy in all directions above absolute zero (0 deg K). Second, we must agree on how differing energy excitements affect one another. (This is the one which is not settled.) This is the crux of the AGW meme. Depending on the outcome of this determines the failure of the hypothesis, specifically any multiplier of effect (sensitivity).

SO.... How do two molecules, of differing temperatures, affect each-other. How does the energy emitted affect each molecule?

In my next post I will explain what I observe...

The premise is; energy absorbed by our atmosphere is re-emitted towards surface causing warming.

Some is emitted toward the surface, some toward space, basically in all directions.

Molecules will only accept energy in a negative state.

Sounds like gibberish.

In a positive state the molecule either reflects the energy or passes it.

You have to explain what "negative state" and "positive state" mean.
Provide a link, please.
Because this just sounds like more stuff you invented.

The mass/mass conversion of energy.

Huh?

A mass emitting at -80 Deg F can not warm a mass that is warmer.

Can it cause the warmer mass to cool more slowly than otherwise?

First, we must agree that all matter emits energy in all directions above absolute zero (0 deg K).

Shhhh…..don't let SSDD hear you say that.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Energy Absorbed by CO2 is emitted in three bands. In the spectral emissions chart below you will note two very narrow bands and one small band in the 12-16um band. (note: narrow bandwidth indicates very low energy residency time as the energy has no time to cool before it is re-emitted)

The spectral intensity of the first two bands CO2 emits is so low they are inconsequential as they carry little energy.

View attachment 201999

What effect does EM energy (blackbody) have on other gasses?

First we must determine wavelength, which will determine the energetic temperature. 16um = -80 Deg C.

How does energy emitted at -80 deg C warm anything? A black body will indeed absorb the energy it receives as a black body is always in a negative state. However, it is emitting energy at a much higher wavelength. When you apply energy, which is negative of the output energy you create a dampening state or cooling.

If you place a piece of steel in a chamber of CO2, at 1000ppm, heated to 400 deg F, its rate of cooling is unchanged from a chamber with no CO2. Now add water vapor to that chamber and the time increases. CO2 absent water vapor is a no go.

(note: narrow bandwidth indicates very low energy residency time as the energy has no time to cool before it is re-emitted)

Energy can cool?

16um = -80 Deg C.​

You need to explain this claim more fully.
​

How does energy emitted at -80 deg C warm anything? ​

The same way any energy warms anything.
​

A black body will indeed absorb the energy it receives as a black body is always in a negative state. However, it is emitting energy at a much higher wavelength. ​

Higher wavelength than what? How do you know?​

​

When you apply energy, which is negative of the output energy you create a dampening state or cooling.​

Wow!!

So much gibberish.​

 

[denmark]

Think about this like a bowl of small marbles that is spinning. Now drop slower moving marbles into the bowl.. What happens to the marbles?

The movement of the faster ones will expel marbles throwing them off and/or it slows the unit as a whole.

If we look at sea water (grey body) the energy can not penetrate the skin layer. The water absorbs the energy at the skin layer, where evaporation is occurring at all temperatures above freezing, and the energy is thrown off.

In every occurrence, the energy fails to do as the AGW premise states and no multiplying effect is seen.

While energy is indeed being exchanged by all matter, there are factors which dampen or pass the energy having little or no effects.

You should submit your ideas to a scientific journal and see what responses you get!

 

[Billy_Bob]

Energy Absorbed by CO2 is emitted in three bands. In the spectral emissions chart below you will note two very narrow bands and one small band in the 12-16um band. (note: narrow bandwidth indicates very low energy residency time as the energy has no time to cool before it is re-emitted)

The spectral intensity of the first two bands CO2 emits is so low they are inconsequential as they carry little energy.

View attachment 201999

What effect does EM energy (blackbody) have on other gasses?

First we must determine wavelength, which will determine the energetic temperature. 16um = -80 Deg C.

How does energy emitted at -80 deg C warm anything? A black body will indeed absorb the energy it receives as a black body is always in a negative state. However, it is emitting energy at a much higher wavelength. When you apply energy, which is negative of the output energy you create a dampening state or cooling.

If you place a piece of steel in a chamber of CO2, at 1000ppm, heated to 400 deg F, its rate of cooling is unchanged from a chamber with no CO2. Now add water vapor to that chamber and the time increases. CO2 absent water vapor is a no go.

(note: narrow bandwidth indicates very low energy residency time as the energy has no time to cool before it is re-emitted)

Energy can cool?

16um = -80 Deg C.

You need to explain this claim more fully.

How does energy emitted at -80 deg C warm anything?

The same way any energy warms anything.

A black body will indeed absorb the energy it receives as a black body is always in a negative state. However, it is emitting energy at a much higher wavelength.

Higher wavelength than what? How do you know?
When you apply energy, which is negative of the output energy you create a dampening state or cooling.

Wow!!

So much gibberish.​

Introduction to Molecular Energy Transfer - 1st Edition

Enjoy!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Energy Absorbed by CO2 is emitted in three bands. In the spectral emissions chart below you will note two very narrow bands and one small band in the 12-16um band. (note: narrow bandwidth indicates very low energy residency time as the energy has no time to cool before it is re-emitted)

The spectral intensity of the first two bands CO2 emits is so low they are inconsequential as they carry little energy.

View attachment 201999

What effect does EM energy (blackbody) have on other gasses?

First we must determine wavelength, which will determine the energetic temperature. 16um = -80 Deg C.

How does energy emitted at -80 deg C warm anything? A black body will indeed absorb the energy it receives as a black body is always in a negative state. However, it is emitting energy at a much higher wavelength. When you apply energy, which is negative of the output energy you create a dampening state or cooling.

If you place a piece of steel in a chamber of CO2, at 1000ppm, heated to 400 deg F, its rate of cooling is unchanged from a chamber with no CO2. Now add water vapor to that chamber and the time increases. CO2 absent water vapor is a no go.

(note: narrow bandwidth indicates very low energy residency time as the energy has no time to cool before it is re-emitted)

Energy can cool?

16um = -80 Deg C.

You need to explain this claim more fully.

How does energy emitted at -80 deg C warm anything?

The same way any energy warms anything.

A black body will indeed absorb the energy it receives as a black body is always in a negative state. However, it is emitting energy at a much higher wavelength.

Higher wavelength than what? How do you know?
When you apply energy, which is negative of the output energy you create a dampening state or cooling.

Wow!!

So much gibberish.​

Introduction to Molecular Energy Transfer - 1st Edition

Enjoy!

Does this link contain your gibberish?
Is it a gibberish to science translator?
Negative states of energy?
Positive states of energy?

Just admit it, you were drunk when you posted that crap.

 

[polarbear]

Energy Absorbed by CO2 is emitted in three bands. In the spectral emissions chart below you will note two very narrow bands and one small band in the 12-16um band. (note: narrow bandwidth indicates very low energy residency time as the energy has no time to cool before it is re-emitted)

The spectral intensity of the first two bands CO2 emits is so low they are inconsequential as they carry little energy.

View attachment 201999

What effect does EM energy (blackbody) have on other gasses?

First we must determine wavelength, which will determine the energetic temperature. 16um = -80 Deg C.

How does energy emitted at -80 deg C warm anything? A black body will indeed absorb the energy it receives as a black body is always in a negative state. However, it is emitting energy at a much higher wavelength. When you apply energy, which is negative of the output energy you create a dampening state or cooling.

If you place a piece of steel in a chamber of CO2, at 1000ppm, heated to 400 deg F, its rate of cooling is unchanged from a chamber with no CO2. Now add water vapor to that chamber and the time increases. CO2 absent water vapor is a no go.

(note: narrow bandwidth indicates very low energy residency time as the energy has no time to cool before it is re-emitted)

Energy can cool?

16um = -80 Deg C.

You need to explain this claim more fully.

How does energy emitted at -80 deg C warm anything?

The same way any energy warms anything.

A black body will indeed absorb the energy it receives as a black body is always in a negative state. However, it is emitting energy at a much higher wavelength.

Higher wavelength than what? How do you know?
When you apply energy, which is negative of the output energy you create a dampening state or cooling.

Wow!!

So much gibberish.​

Introduction to Molecular Energy Transfer - 1st Edition

Enjoy!

Does this link contain your gibberish?
Is it a gibberish to science translator?
Negative states of energy?
Positive states of energy?

Just admit it, you were drunk when you posted that crap.

He never said "Negative states of energy" !!!! He said "Molecules will only accept energy in a negative state." and you substituted Molecules with energy hoping to ridicule him.
What he called "positive" refers to the excitation of the electron orbitals, positive being at a higher excitation level:

It is also true that electrons which already are at a higher excitation level can not absorb absorb more energy of the same wavelength where that transition occurred. That can only happen after the energy was emitted and the orbital is again at a lower excitation level. If it were otherwise then the molar absorptivity of CO2 would change when you radiate it with more energy of the wavelength for that particular absorption band.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Energy Absorbed by CO2 is emitted in three bands. In the spectral emissions chart below you will note two very narrow bands and one small band in the 12-16um band. (note: narrow bandwidth indicates very low energy residency time as the energy has no time to cool before it is re-emitted)

The spectral intensity of the first two bands CO2 emits is so low they are inconsequential as they carry little energy.

View attachment 201999

What effect does EM energy (blackbody) have on other gasses?

First we must determine wavelength, which will determine the energetic temperature. 16um = -80 Deg C.

How does energy emitted at -80 deg C warm anything? A black body will indeed absorb the energy it receives as a black body is always in a negative state. However, it is emitting energy at a much higher wavelength. When you apply energy, which is negative of the output energy you create a dampening state or cooling.

If you place a piece of steel in a chamber of CO2, at 1000ppm, heated to 400 deg F, its rate of cooling is unchanged from a chamber with no CO2. Now add water vapor to that chamber and the time increases. CO2 absent water vapor is a no go.

(note: narrow bandwidth indicates very low energy residency time as the energy has no time to cool before it is re-emitted)

Energy can cool?

16um = -80 Deg C.

You need to explain this claim more fully.

How does energy emitted at -80 deg C warm anything?

The same way any energy warms anything.

A black body will indeed absorb the energy it receives as a black body is always in a negative state. However, it is emitting energy at a much higher wavelength.

Higher wavelength than what? How do you know?
When you apply energy, which is negative of the output energy you create a dampening state or cooling.

Wow!!

So much gibberish.​

Introduction to Molecular Energy Transfer - 1st Edition

Enjoy!

Does this link contain your gibberish?
Is it a gibberish to science translator?
Negative states of energy?
Positive states of energy?

Just admit it, you were drunk when you posted that crap.

Because you fail to grasp the concept does not make it gibberish.

And I said the MOLECULE'S state not the energy's state.

 

[IanC]

Energy Absorbed by CO2 is emitted in three bands. In the spectral emissions chart below you will note two very narrow bands and one small band in the 12-16um band. (note: narrow bandwidth indicates very low energy residency time as the energy has no time to cool before it is re-emitted)

The spectral intensity of the first two bands CO2 emits is so low they are inconsequential as they carry little energy.

View attachment 201999

What effect does EM energy (blackbody) have on other gasses?

First we must determine wavelength, which will determine the energetic temperature. 16um = -80 Deg C.

How does energy emitted at -80 deg C warm anything? A black body will indeed absorb the energy it receives as a black body is always in a negative state. However, it is emitting energy at a much higher wavelength. When you apply energy, which is negative of the output energy you create a dampening state or cooling.

If you place a piece of steel in a chamber of CO2, at 1000ppm, heated to 400 deg F, its rate of cooling is unchanged from a chamber with no CO2. Now add water vapor to that chamber and the time increases. CO2 absent water vapor is a no go.

Hahahahahaha. I see that you are still a fucking idiot. Still spewing gibberish.

Still under the impression that anything you don't understand is gibberish or magic? Some things never change. Ever find a single measured example of energy moving from a cold object to a warmer one? Of course not.

Your question is framed in a nonsensical way. Net energy, heat, always flows from warm to cold.

Every object emits radiation if it is warmer than absolute zero, and loses energy. The highest rate of energy loss is when the environment is at 0 Kelvin, absolute zero.

There are many types of freezers. Ordinary ones at -20C, specimen freezers at -40C, and cooler ones for storing solid or liquid gases at -80C. the cooler the freezer, the more quickly objects placed in them will lose energy. You can actively heat something but cooling is a passive methodology controlled by internal conditions. The rate of cooling is proportional to the temperature of the environment accepting the energy loss from the object.

I say all objects are trying to shed energy as fast as they can, at all times. Likewise the environment is radiating towards the object. You say they restrict their radiation according to the environment, with the environment not being able to radiate towards the object and the object only being capable of a fraction of its maximum radiation.

A block of dry ice in the -80C freezer will radiate away (or absorb) energy until it reaches -80C. The radiation is now balanced between the freezer and block.

If you put the block of dry ice in the -40C freezer, it will accept radiation from the freezer and warm up, the freezer will cool down. The usual roles for object and environment are reversed.

I say there is only one special temperature; absolute zero. All other temperatures are relative to each other. Any temperature is warm or cold, depending on what it is being compared to. An object does not know if it is warm or cool. It only has a rate of energy loss (or gain) that depends on the rate at which the environment replaces the energy being lost by the object. The rate at which the object loses energy is controlled by the first S-B equation, and is happening ALL the time. The net loss is controlled by the the two variable S-B equation.

Don't worry, I don't expect you to make a reasoned response. You haven't done so in the last five years, why would you start now?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Energy Absorbed by CO2 is emitted in three bands. In the spectral emissions chart below you will note two very narrow bands and one small band in the 12-16um band. (note: narrow bandwidth indicates very low energy residency time as the energy has no time to cool before it is re-emitted)

The spectral intensity of the first two bands CO2 emits is so low they are inconsequential as they carry little energy.

View attachment 201999

What effect does EM energy (blackbody) have on other gasses?

First we must determine wavelength, which will determine the energetic temperature. 16um = -80 Deg C.

How does energy emitted at -80 deg C warm anything? A black body will indeed absorb the energy it receives as a black body is always in a negative state. However, it is emitting energy at a much higher wavelength. When you apply energy, which is negative of the output energy you create a dampening state or cooling.

If you place a piece of steel in a chamber of CO2, at 1000ppm, heated to 400 deg F, its rate of cooling is unchanged from a chamber with no CO2. Now add water vapor to that chamber and the time increases. CO2 absent water vapor is a no go.

(note: narrow bandwidth indicates very low energy residency time as the energy has no time to cool before it is re-emitted)

Energy can cool?

16um = -80 Deg C.

You need to explain this claim more fully.

How does energy emitted at -80 deg C warm anything?

The same way any energy warms anything.

A black body will indeed absorb the energy it receives as a black body is always in a negative state. However, it is emitting energy at a much higher wavelength.

Higher wavelength than what? How do you know?
When you apply energy, which is negative of the output energy you create a dampening state or cooling.

Wow!!

So much gibberish.​

Introduction to Molecular Energy Transfer - 1st Edition

Enjoy!

Does this link contain your gibberish?
Is it a gibberish to science translator?
Negative states of energy?
Positive states of energy?

Just admit it, you were drunk when you posted that crap.

He never said "Negative states of energy" !!!! He said "Molecules will only accept energy in a negative state." and you substituted Molecules with energy hoping to ridicule him.
What he called "positive" refers to the excitation of the electron orbitals, positive being at a higher excitation level:

It is also true that electrons which already are at a higher excitation level can not absorb absorb more energy of the same wavelength where that transition occurred. That can only happen after the energy was emitted and the orbital is again at a lower excitation level. If it were otherwise then the molar absorptivity of CO2 would change when you radiate it with more energy of the wavelength for that particular absorption band.

He never said "Negative states of energy" !!!! He said "Molecules will only accept energy in a negative state."

A black body will indeed absorb the energy it receives as a black body is always in a negative state.

Energy in a negative state? You think that makes more sense? Okay, sure thing.

you substituted Molecules with energy

I did? Where? Link?

hoping to ridicule him.

Geez, how can you not ridicule his moronic gibberish? Did you ever
see his claim that "covailent bonds" prevent matter from absorbing photons from cooler matter?
Something about EM fields actually repelling photons from cooler emitters.
It was the funniest damn thing I ever heard.

What he called "positive" refers to the excitation of the electron orbitals, positive being at a higher excitation level:

He should have mentioned orbitals then. At least now, thanks to you, he's heard of them.
So, as long as you're defending him, what does negative mean? An orbital below ground state?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Energy Absorbed by CO2 is emitted in three bands. In the spectral emissions chart below you will note two very narrow bands and one small band in the 12-16um band. (note: narrow bandwidth indicates very low energy residency time as the energy has no time to cool before it is re-emitted)

The spectral intensity of the first two bands CO2 emits is so low they are inconsequential as they carry little energy.

View attachment 201999

What effect does EM energy (blackbody) have on other gasses?

First we must determine wavelength, which will determine the energetic temperature. 16um = -80 Deg C.

How does energy emitted at -80 deg C warm anything? A black body will indeed absorb the energy it receives as a black body is always in a negative state. However, it is emitting energy at a much higher wavelength. When you apply energy, which is negative of the output energy you create a dampening state or cooling.

If you place a piece of steel in a chamber of CO2, at 1000ppm, heated to 400 deg F, its rate of cooling is unchanged from a chamber with no CO2. Now add water vapor to that chamber and the time increases. CO2 absent water vapor is a no go.

(note: narrow bandwidth indicates very low energy residency time as the energy has no time to cool before it is re-emitted)

Energy can cool?

16um = -80 Deg C.

You need to explain this claim more fully.

How does energy emitted at -80 deg C warm anything?

The same way any energy warms anything.

A black body will indeed absorb the energy it receives as a black body is always in a negative state. However, it is emitting energy at a much higher wavelength.

Higher wavelength than what? How do you know?
When you apply energy, which is negative of the output energy you create a dampening state or cooling.

Wow!!

So much gibberish.​

Introduction to Molecular Energy Transfer - 1st Edition

Enjoy!

Does this link contain your gibberish?
Is it a gibberish to science translator?
Negative states of energy?
Positive states of energy?

Just admit it, you were drunk when you posted that crap.

Because you fail to grasp the concept does not make it gibberish.

And I said the MOLECULE'S state not the energy's state.

Because you fail to grasp the concept does not make it gibberish.

Explain your concept of "the energy has no time to cool before it is re-emitted"

And I said the MOLECULE'S state not the energy's state.

Great. What is a molecule's "negative state of energy"?

 

[Wuwei]

SO.... How do two molecules, of differing temperatures, affect each-other. How does the energy emitted affect each molecule?

I'm sorry, I just don't understand how you think two molecules can each have different temperatures. It takes a large number of molecules to define the concept of temperature.

 

[Wuwei]

"negative state of energy"

In quantum mechanics negative energy states refers to antiparticles. Would these be anti-molecules?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

"negative state of energy"

In quantum mechanics negative energy states refers to antiparticles. Would these be anti-molecules?

Now his gibberish (or should I say anti-gibberish?) all makes sense!!

Thanks!