The Gospel of Unbelief

[dmp]

Nope. Just can't think of many homophobes who AREN'T religious. Look, their lifestyle ain't my thang either, but, bottom line? None of my business..

and I can't think of many Religiophobes who aren't pro-gay.

 

[dmp]

Heh! Just so ya know that they feel the same about you or me.

That's fine. Doesn't change the fact of their wrongness.

 

[Dr Grump]

All in the delivery---I have suspected such for quite sometime. The message may be ok---just not the messanger?

With me? Possibly

 

[Dr Grump]

and I can't think of many Religiophobes who aren't pro-gay.

Don't know any Relgiophobes myself! What is their mantra?

 

[dmp]

Don't know any Relgiophobes myself! What is their mantra?

"USA is a THEOCRACY!"

"PRO-GAY!!"

"DOWN with DEATH!! Unless it's to an UNBORN CHILD!!"

etc....

 

[jillian]

That's fine. Doesn't change the fact of their wrongness.

Well at least you're not biased. :teeth:

 

[jillian]

"USA is a THEOCRACY!"

No. That certain people who think they have the only door WANT it to be a theocracy.

"PRO-GAY!!"

As opposed to homophobic? Hmmmmmm...maybe. But I prefer to think of it as pro equal rights.

"DOWN with DEATH!! Unless it's to an UNBORN CHILD!!"

How about: death only when necessary, whether in self-defense or other really good reasons, and pro-government staying out of women's uteruses?

etc....

Yadda, Yadda, Yadda.... :teeth:

 

[dmp]

As opposed to homophobic? Hmmmmmm...maybe. But I prefer to think of it as pro equal rights.

Then I want the right to marry whomever I love too!!

 

[dmp]

and pro-government staying out of women's uteruses?

What about the uteruses of women who are still within another woman?

 

[dilloduck]

With me? Possibly

I'm sure that it's more than you who would gladly accept anything as long as nothing "relgious" is attched to it. Rebellion for the sake of rebellion is so boring.

 

[Dr Grump]

Rebellion for the sake of rebellion is so boring.

As is religion for the sake of religion... :funnyface

 

[jillian]

What about the uteruses of women who are still within another woman?

By the time a uterus is in a uterus, Roe doesn't apply. 10 cells does not a child make as science has made it very clear that life exists on a continuum. The same people who are anti-Roe are anti birth control education, anti the morning after pill. They also don't say "if you don't want the child, we'll take it and find good homes or make sure you have daycare so you can continue your education".

That isn't "pro-life", it's "pro-birth" and it's not government's place to intervene until the state interest exceeds that of the individual.

Tell me, if I have frozen, fertilized eggs stored somewhere and decide that I no longer want them preserved, is that the same as abortion? Should it be made criminal?

 

[Hobbit]

By the time a uterus is in a uterus, Roe doesn't apply. 10 cells does not a child make as science has made it very clear that life exists on a continuum. The same people who are anti-Roe are anti birth control education, anti the morning after pill. They also don't say "if you don't want the child, we'll take it and find good homes or make sure you have daycare so you can continue your education".

That isn't "pro-life", it's "pro-birth" and it's not government's place to intervene until the state interest exceeds that of the individual.

Tell me, if I have frozen, fertilized eggs stored somewhere and decide that I no longer want them preserved, is that the same as abortion? Should it be made criminal?

So, you know exactly how every member in a large group of people thinks, huh? I'm all for birth control education. It keeps young married couples from getting in over their heads. I also think it would be nice to adopt some unwanted kid, like my dad's cousin did. The problem is that, thanks to abortion, adopting a child is a daunting process that can take years, and all because there aren't enough kids to go around. You know, there are even organizations that will adopt unwanted embryos.

What I'm against is the idea that you have to right to negate the consequences of your actions. Abortion has the sole purpose of giving women sex without consequence, and I don't think that's really worth killing babies. If people don't want babies that bad, they need to just learn to keep their pants on.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

The problem is that, thanks to abortion, adopting a child is a daunting process that can take years, and all because there aren't enough kids to go around.

You mean there aren't enough kids that people want to go around... right?

 

[dmp]

Abortion has the sole purpose of giving women sex without consequence,

And the worst part of that is, the FATHER has NO say in the life HE helped create.

 

[jillian]

So, you know exactly how every member in a large group of people thinks, huh? I'm all for birth control education. It keeps young married couples from getting in over their heads. I also think it would be nice to adopt some unwanted kid, like my dad's cousin did. The problem is that, thanks to abortion, adopting a child is a daunting process that can take years, and all because there aren't enough kids to go around. You know, there are even organizations that will adopt unwanted embryos.

And I wouldn't want any of those organizations anywhere near an embryo of mine. So is it abortion for me to say, turn off the freezer? And should it be made criminal?

Abortion has the sole purpose of giving women sex without consequence

And that's a bad thing how?

Thank you for your honesty, though. I've always said the reason men feel so strongly on this issue is that it's a control thing and about "punishing" harlots.
Besides, most people wouldn't view abortion as birth control. And I don't know any woman who's had one who didn't anguish over her decision.

If people don't want babies that bad, they need to just learn to keep their pants on.

I don't think the celibacy/abstinence approach is either realistic or effective. In fact, it's been proven wholly ineffective.

The best thing I've ever heard on this subject is that "abortion should be legal, readily available and absolutely unnecessary".

 

[jillian]

You mean there aren't enough kids that people want to go around... right?

Yeah...I saw that one, too.

 

[LOki]

Rational principles

ok. Should we make the assumption that man CAN control his own behavior or CANNOT control his own behavior. The question of free will. Do men posess free will? How we answer this question will effect how we build the rest of our society.

Interesting article by Peter Schwartz discusses some of this.<blockquote>A Morality of Reason
"The real alternative to the leftist claptrap is a morality of reason. Such a morality begins with the individual's life as the primary value and identifies the further values that are demonstrably required to sustain that life. It observes that man's nature demands that we live not by random urges or by animal instincts, but by the faculty that distinguishes us from animals and on which our existence fundamentally depends: rationality."

AND

"Since life requires man to use his own judgment rather than submissively accept the assertions of others, independence is a moral value--making moral opposites out of the person (or nation) acting on his own rational convictions and the one deferring to the consensus of his neighbors (or the U.N.). Since life requires the mind, man's political system must allow him to use it, i.e., freedom is a moral value--making moral opposites out of America, the defender of liberty, and America’s enemies, who seek liberty's destruction."</blockquote>

 

[dilloduck]

Interesting article by Peter Schwartz discusses some of this.<blockquote>A Morality of Reason
"The real alternative to the leftist claptrap is a morality of reason. Such a morality begins with the individual's life as the primary value and identifies the further values that are demonstrably required to sustain that life. It observes that man's nature demands that we live not by random urges or by animal instincts, but by the faculty that distinguishes us from animals and on which our existence fundamentally depends: rationality."

AND

"Since life requires man to use his own judgment rather than submissively accept the assertions of others, independence is a moral value--making moral opposites out of the person (or nation) acting on his own rational convictions and the one deferring to the consensus of his neighbors (or the U.N.). Since life requires the mind, man's political system must allow him to use it, i.e., freedom is a moral value--making moral opposites out of America, the defender of liberty, and America’s enemies, who seek liberty's destruction."</blockquote>

So what do should people rely on when rationality fails them?

 

[LOki]

So what do should people rely on when rationality fails them?

Throwing salt over their shoulders for good luck, of course! :duh3: