The General’s Son: Journey of an Israeli in Palestine

[Billo_Really]

1. Everyone talk all the time about attacking Iran 7/24 in Israel. in the time of their empty babbling the danger is getting bigger and nothing really happens.

But they're all talks. Nothing in field proved so far that Israel is going to attack Iran. everyone argue about it to death and the everage Israeli is kind tired of all the baseless babbles. We don't really see them doing anything in field.

We all know that when you talk about something or plan it to death, nothing really happens at the end.

Except for the fact that Israel already has a bad track history of un-provoked attacks on sovereign nations. They already did once to Iran. They did to the Egyptians in '67, to the Lebonese a few years ago and constantly to the Palestinian's on a weekly basis.

2. The flotilla WAS a threat, there is no question about that. The flotilla WAS filled with Islamic terrorist, there is no question about it either. But today a report came out saying that the way of dealing with the flotilla was a joke. I agree with that.

Oh no, there's a big question about that! Murdering a 19 year old American because he was in possession of "illegal food", is pretty extreme. The fact that you consider humanatarian aid a threat, is just psycho talk. And this "Islamic terrorist" crap, is just spin control and propaganda.

 

[Billo_Really]

The reason for hostilities is Muslim inability to coexist with non Muslims. Which has to do with their religion.

That's just the lame rap you constantly spew in order to hide Israeli oppression.

 

[Billo_Really]

Eh he wasn't "in charge".

Prove it!

Prove Matti Peled, was not the leader of the 6-day war in 1967.

You shot your mouth off, now back it up!

 

[Lipush]

most of the generals always do.

But the generals are also the ones that stay in command while the tiny soldiers go to battle.

And it's not a matter of "knowing more". I don't know the general, I am sure he knows much, and i respect each Israeli soldier in at least minimum amount of respect(result of being an army brat), it's a matter of opinion, and that kind of thing amuses me.

I can express it.

And saying the Palestinian "resistence" is not of violence is like saying cow crap doesn't stink.

and because I *AM* a southerner that I know that.

How many Palestinian terror attacks have you felt on your on flesh, Mr. loinboy?

Please answer my question honestly.

I'm not saying you're wrong. And I'm not trying to marginalize your personal experiences. But the whole point of the general and subsequently his son, was the fact that they started out believing everything you believe now about the Palestinian's. The general even killed many, many of them in support of Israel. But the more involved he got in this conflict, the more he saw problems with the Israeli position. And he went from full support of Israeli policies in the OPT, to completely against the occupation and Israels policy towards the Palestinain's.

Now, you have to make up your own mind, on your own terms. But does it registar at all with you, that someone that involved, can make such a drastic change in position, while not blindly accepting his comments as your truth, that maybe, just maybe, you need to do a little more research in this area, to find out for yourself?

BTW, how many times do I have to state I do not support acts of Palestinian terrorism, before you stop acting like I do? And when are you going to start dealing with Israeli acts of terrorism, honestly and responsibly?

Well, as for the general and his son, people change opinions and actions all the time. We have also many people who started on the left camp and became rightists.

One personal beliefs won't change only because others did.

I myself grew up to be a rightist. because of values from home, because of personal experiences. And personal experiences, are the ones that built knowledge. People can read, but that is not enough to build the knowledge as enough as 1 minutes experiencing it.

I said before, I was an army brat. My mother served in the army for 22 years, my father served about 23. He fought in many battles. He was in Sinai and Gaza and up in the north. He told me things he experienced that most people don't. He might have a strong negative opinion about the Palestinians; mostly it's against Islam than the Palestinians. but that has to do with education from home and the things he saw in battle. He lost one of his dearest soldiers in battle. he got injured from an Egyptian missile and was ones of the few to be able to tell the story after their post was destroyed. One of the things though, that shaped his harsh opinion about the enemy, was a case where they took in captivity few Egyptians who were armed, during being in Sinai. they kept them together but did not abuse them or harmed them in anyway, because they knew that by doing so they will have to answer to higher places.

One of my father's soldiers notices that one of the Egyptians looked bad. apperently he ran out of water few minutes earlier, so the soldier, taking pity on him, offered him his bottle. he pulled out his own bottle, and with the head nodded toward the Egyptian man, asking him with his eyes if he will allow him approach. Ones he did, the Egyptian man suddenly, without any way to stop him, pulled out a knife he kept hidden and stabbed the soldier in his chest.

The same one who wanted to help him. All of this infront of my father's eyes. Ever since I was a kid, he told me this story over and over, telling me all the time that one "cannot trust them". Telling you that this doesn't influence you? that will be bullshit, we all know it. It's all about the messages you get from home. I myself served in the army. Blessed be God, I never had to shoot anyone or kill anyone, I'm sure I would have had nightmares if I did. My dad says he still has them sometimes. As contrary to what people think, IDF soldiers Do feel blame and have nightmares when fighting the enemy.

I do not know the story of the general, but IDF soldiers do happen to have different reactions to different situation. My father still suffers, for what is known in Hebrew as "Helem Krav" ("Battle shock" or "battle trauma"). Now this situation can be expressed in many ways. To us its with the rockets and code red alarm. In Sinai they had those and everytime my father hears them it's like he blocks out everything and one cannot talk with him at all. But Battle shock can also be emotional physiological, my friends have them. It may have been that for what the general saw, or experienced, he took to a certain direction. another soldier in the same position could have taken it to a different direction.

I believe, personally, that all IDF battle soldiers suffer some kind of amount of "Helem Krav". no one is immune, we're all human beings. I would have asked the general what lead his to this point. Because this point if never good, and you don't recover from it. not really.

 

[Roudy]

You think what some religous nutjob say's, is proof the 40 year occupation (in violation of international law) that make Palestinian daily life a living hell, is not the reason for hostilities.

The reason for hostilities is Muslim inability to coexist with non Muslims. Which has to do with their religion.

Some of the staunchest supporters of Palestine are Palestinian Christians.

Doesn't that seem strange?

Vast majority of Middle East Christians, including Palestinian Christians are against Palestine and / or Hamas.

 

[Hossfly]

You think what some religous nutjob say's, is proof the 40 year occupation (in violation of international law) that make Palestinian daily life a living hell, is not the reason for hostilities.

The reason for hostilities is Muslim inability to coexist with non Muslims. Which has to do with their religion.

Some of the staunchest supporters of Palestine are Palestinian Christians.

Doesn't that seem strange?

Palestinian Christians, Are they Muslim or Christian? Make up your feeble mind, sis.

 

[AgentBond007]

The reason for hostilities is Muslim inability to coexist with non Muslims. Which has to do with their religion.

Some of the staunchest supporters of Palestine are Palestinian Christians.

Doesn't that seem strange?

Palestinian Christians, Are they Muslim or Christian? Make up your feeble mind, sis.

There aren't too many Palestinian Christians left, after the persecution, oppression, and ethnic cleansing that has occured by the Muslims.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The reason for hostilities is Muslim inability to coexist with non Muslims. Which has to do with their religion.

Some of the staunchest supporters of Palestine are Palestinian Christians.

Doesn't that seem strange?

Vast majority of Middle East Christians, including Palestinian Christians are against Palestine and / or Hamas.

Name some.

 

[Roudy]

Some of the staunchest supporters of Palestine are Palestinian Christians.

Doesn't that seem strange?

Vast majority of Middle East Christians, including Palestinian Christians are against Palestine and / or Hamas.

Name some.

Gee. Where should I start? You want a list of Christian Churches bombed in Egypt. Name a Muslim country that Muslims actually don't persecute Christians and minorities. Palestinians would in fact represent among the worst in Islamic radicalism and intolerance.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Vast majority of Middle East Christians, including Palestinian Christians are against Palestine and / or Hamas.

Name some.

Gee. Where should I start? You want a list of Christian Churches bombed in Egypt. Name a Muslim country that Muslims actually don't persecute Christians and minorities. Palestinians would in fact represent among the worst in Islamic radicalism and intolerance.

Let's stay on topic.

Name some Palestinian Christians who oppose Palestine.

 

[Hossfly]

Name some.

Gee. Where should I start? You want a list of Christian Churches bombed in Egypt. Name a Muslim country that Muslims actually don't persecute Christians and minorities. Palestinians would in fact represent among the worst in Islamic radicalism and intolerance.

Let's stay on topic.

Name some Palestinian Christians who oppose Palestine.

Check on the membership list of any Palestinian church and you'll have your roster. They are being persecuted by Palestinian Muslims. Or is Gaza one big day care center?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Gee. Where should I start? You want a list of Christian Churches bombed in Egypt. Name a Muslim country that Muslims actually don't persecute Christians and minorities. Palestinians would in fact represent among the worst in Islamic radicalism and intolerance.

Let's stay on topic.

Name some Palestinian Christians who oppose Palestine.

Check on the membership list of any Palestinian church and you'll have your roster. They are being persecuted by Palestinian Muslims. Or is Gaza one big day care center?

Deflection.

You don't have squat.

 

[Hossfly]

Let's stay on topic.

Name some Palestinian Christians who oppose Palestine.

Check on the membership list of any Palestinian church and you'll have your roster. They are being persecuted by Palestinian Muslims. Or is Gaza one big day care center?

Deflection.

You don't have squat.

Apparently you don't agree with with me on this matter. What's your statistics say?

 

[Hossfly]

Let's stay on topic.

Name some Palestinian Christians who oppose Palestine.

Check on the membership list of any Palestinian church and you'll have your roster. They are being persecuted by Palestinian Muslims. Or is Gaza one big day care center?

Deflection.

You don't have squat.

I can come up with many,many more. See the article about Palestinian Christians leaving for decades due to persecution by Muslim filth. That'sMY deflection, Arbutus.

http://www.persecution.org/category/countries/middle-east/palestinian-areas/

 

[P F Tinmore]

Check on the membership list of any Palestinian church and you'll have your roster. They are being persecuted by Palestinian Muslims. Or is Gaza one big day care center?

Deflection.

You don't have squat.

Apparently you don't agree with with me on this matter. What's your statistics say?

Palestinian Christians who support Palestine.

Edward Said
Ghada Karmi
Noiura Erakat
Huwaida Arraf
Hanan Ashrawari
Shireen Said

Just off the top of my head. Then, of course, the PFLP is a Christian organization.

Who do you have?

 

[Hossfly]

Check on the membership list of any Palestinian church and you'll have your roster. They are being persecuted by Palestinian Muslims. Or is Gaza one big day care center?

Deflection.

You don't have squat.

I can come up with many,many more. See the article about Palestinian Christians leaving for decades due to persecution by Muslim filth. That'sMY deflection, Arbutus.

Palestinian Areas « Christian & Church Persecution

Check it out, Tinny.

 

[Hossfly]

Deflection.

You don't have squat.

Apparently you don't agree with with me on this matter. What's your statistics say?

Palestinian Christians who support Palestine.

Edward Said
Ghada Karmi
Noiura Erakat
Huwaida Arraf
Hanan Ashrawari
Shireen Said

Just off the top of my head. Then, of course, the PFLP is a Christian organization.

Who do you have?

Great list. You done good.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Deflection.

You don't have squat.

I can come up with many,many more. See the article about Palestinian Christians leaving for decades due to persecution by Muslim filth. That'sMY deflection, Arbutus.

Palestinian Areas « Christian & Church Persecution

Check it out, Tinny.

I can come up with many,many more.

More than what?

 

[Roudy]

Let's stay on topic.

Name some Palestinian Christians who oppose Palestine.

Check on the membership list of any Palestinian church and you'll have your roster. They are being persecuted by Palestinian Muslims. Or is Gaza one big day care center?

Deflection.

You don't have squat.

As a general rule, whatever Tinmore says, the EXACT OPPOSITE IS TRUE.

Palestinian Crimes against Christian Arabs and Their manipulation against Israel | Jerusalem Center For Public Affairs

Developments in Bethlehem

“The demographics in these areas have changed drastically. Bethlehem is a prime example. Estimates show a sharp demographic Christian-Muslim shift. The Christian population went from an 80 percent majority in 1950, to a 60 percent majority in 1990, to approximately a 40 percent minority in 2000. Today the population of Christian Arabs in Bethlehem is hovering at about 15 percent of the city’s total population. It is estimated that for the past seven years over one thousand Christians have been emigrating from the Bethlehem area annually. At present an estimated ten to thirteen thousand Christians remain in the city.

“Neither the Palestinian Christian leaders nor the PA want to reveal accurate statistics. That would mean the extent of the emigration would become publicly known. They would then have to face questions about the reasons for this decline.”

Weiner points out that Yasser Arafat determined the policy that led to this demographic shift. “After the PA gained control of Bethlehem it redistricted the municipal boundaries of the city. Arafat’s motivation for the change was to ensure a Muslim majority in any elections to be held in the area. By doing so, he annexed an additional thirty thousand Muslims and a few thousand Muslim Bedouins in adjacent areas. This, combined with substantial Muslim immigration from the nearby city of Hebron, dramatically transformed the demographic reality. “Arafat also defied tradition by appointing a Muslim governor of the city. The Bethlehem City Council, which by Palestinian law must have a Christian majority, has been taken over by Muslims.

 

[Roudy]

I can come up with many,many more. See the article about Palestinian Christians leaving for decades due to persecution by Muslim filth. That'sMY deflection, Arbutus.

Palestinian Areas « Christian & Church Persecution

Check it out, Tinny.

I can come up with many,many more.

More than what?

Statement from a Christian leader:

ARABS Crimes Against Palestinian Christian | NowPublic News Coverage

National American Coptic Assembly
NACA
Washington DC
Mr. Morris Sadek-ESQ President
morris. [email protected]
[email protected]
http://morrissadek.blogspot.com/

Under the Palestinian regime Palestinian Christian have been victims of frequent human rights abuses by Muslims. There are many examples of intimidation, beatings, land theft, firebombing of churches and other Christian institutions, denial of employment, economic boycotts, torture, kidnapping, forced marriage, sexual harassment, and extortion.

Palestinian Authority officials are directly responsible for many of the human rights violations. Muslims who have converted to Christianity are in the greatest danger. They are often left defenseless against cruelty by Muslim fundamentalists. Some have been murdered. Palestinian Christian also fall victim to the chaos and anarchy typical of PA rule. This situation is fostered by societal rigidity, criminal gangs, lack of education, absence of due process, incitement, unreliable courts, and the denial of these problems-all running counter to Israel's desire for a prosperous and stable neighbor. Muslim attitudes toward Palestinian Christians and Jews are influenced by the concepts and prejudices about their inferiority that the practice of dhimmitude has spawned in Islamic society. As dhimmis, Palestinian Christians living in Palestinian-controlled territories are not treated as equals of Muslims and are subjected to debilitating legal, political, cultural, and religious restrictions. in part, by Hamas.


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