The Flawed Concept of "Wealth Redistribution"

[antagon]

Lest you forget, even though you have been told numerous times, that the inclusion of what was income and the deduction systems were much different back then as well....

But it does not matter to the likes of you who supports a system of selective equality.. when equality benefits you it is great, when inequality towards someone benefits you, that is OK then too

Indeed. Federal tax receipts as a % of GDP were 14.4% in the 1950s - the tax code was set up so that the exclusions and deductions resulted in a lower tax burden than today.

Fiscal Facts & Figures

there's some gross inaccuracies here.

total federal revenues were 14.4% of the GDP in the 50s. tax is not nearly all of the governments revenue. since reagan, id say its less than half of the fed's receipts, what with the voodoo and all.

 

[beowolfe]

Wow... a very nice way of pointing out the stupidity of the liberal tax mindset.

Where do rich people come from?

Most earn it. Why you ask?

You're right. Most earn it. Which means they come from the poor and middle classes. So, if you got rid of all of the rich people, all it means is that the poor and middle classes would make more.

 

[Nonelitist]

Thats a tough one.....

Let me think a minute...........................Oh!....I got it

The group that comprises 1% of the population and monopolizes 34% of the wealth pays that most taxes
While the group that comprises 40% of the population and controls .2% of the wealth pays relatively little

The solution of conservatives is that we need to target the portion of the population that controls .2% of the wealth

Rocket science....pure rocket science

Wealth and income are not the same thing. I wish people would get it right.

And if you look at the top 5% of income earners over the years you quickly discover they aren't the same people year after year.

Wealth is sheltered and income isn't. We still have a disproportionate distribution that is growing yearly. Income earners are different than the truly wealthy because they have a harder time hiding it

They dumbass... read this.

Who pays more taxes?

Wealthy family:
- Earns as household $2,000,000
- Family business hires 100 people
- 2 homes (pays $20,000 property tax on both per year)
- 3 cars (pays total of $7000 property tax per year)
- One boat (pays $10,000 per year property tax)
- Purchases about $20,000 per year in products paying about 7% sales tax = $1400
- Income tax.... I have no idea how much that would be... tens of thousands i am sure
Vacation - Spends $10,000, paying sales tax all along the way.

Poor person-

Food stamps - Takes about $6000.00 from taxpayers per year
Housing - Takes approximately $10,000 per year from taxpayers
Welfare - Takes $15,000 per year from taxpayers
Income tax refund - $4000 per year.

So.. who pays more and contributes to society more?

 

[beowolfe]

Labor w/o capital would be in a better position than capital w/o labor.

The irony of someone posting this comment on an internet that was Built With Capital, and a computer that was Built With Capital run with software that was Built With Capital is incredibly amusing...and sad.

You have no appreciation of the blessings in your life that are due to the investment of capital.

Capital didn't build the internet, the government did it with tax dollars. And capital didn't expand the internet. It was expanded by labor, paid for wth that capital we're talking about. Capital can't do anything w/o labor. But labor can surely do things w/o capital. BTW, labor built the computer I'm typing on along with the software that's running it. Capital only paid for the labor.

 

[beowolfe]

Wealth and income are not the same thing. I wish people would get it right.

And if you look at the top 5% of income earners over the years you quickly discover they aren't the same people year after year.

Wealth is sheltered and income isn't. We still have a disproportionate distribution that is growing yearly. Income earners are different than the truly wealthy because they have a harder time hiding it

They dumbass... read this.

Who pays more taxes?

Wealthy family:
- Earns as household $2,000,000
- Family business hires 100 people
- 2 homes (pays $20,000 property tax on both per year)
- 3 cars (pays total of $7000 property tax per year)
- One boat (pays $10,000 per year property tax)
- Purchases about $20,000 per year in products paying about 7% sales tax = $1400
- Income tax.... I have no idea how much that would be... tens of thousands i am sure
Vacation - Spends $10,000, paying sales tax all along the way.

Poor person-

Food stamps - Takes about $6000.00 from taxpayers per year
Housing - Takes approximately $10,000 per year from taxpayers
Welfare - Takes $15,000 per year from taxpayers
Income tax refund - $4000 per year.

So.. who pays more and contributes to society more?

I"m not sure where you get your numbers, but I know section 8 housing doesn't provide $10 K per year for housing, neither does welfare provide $15K per year per person. A poor person might get $4K in a tax refund if they have three dependants aka kids.

 

[rightwinger]

Wealth and income are not the same thing. I wish people would get it right.

And if you look at the top 5% of income earners over the years you quickly discover they aren't the same people year after year.

Wealth is sheltered and income isn't. We still have a disproportionate distribution that is growing yearly. Income earners are different than the truly wealthy because they have a harder time hiding it

They dumbass... read this.

Who pays more taxes?

Wealthy family:
- Earns as household $2,000,000
- Family business hires 100 people
- 2 homes (pays $20,000 property tax on both per year)
- 3 cars (pays total of $7000 property tax per year)
- One boat (pays $10,000 per year property tax)
- Purchases about $20,000 per year in products paying about 7% sales tax = $1400
- Income tax.... I have no idea how much that would be... tens of thousands i am sure
Vacation - Spends $10,000, paying sales tax all along the way.

Poor person-

Food stamps - Takes about $6000.00 from taxpayers per year
Housing - Takes approximately $10,000 per year from taxpayers
Welfare - Takes $15,000 per year from taxpayers
Income tax refund - $4000 per year.

So.. who pays more and contributes to society more?

Who benefits more from our society?

If available wealth were a pizza cut into ten slices to be divided among ten people, one person would be claiming nine slices while the remaining nine fight over the remaining slice. Your poor person in your example would be fighting for a crumb and you would begrudge him for it.

 

[Nonelitist]

Wealth is sheltered and income isn't. We still have a disproportionate distribution that is growing yearly. Income earners are different than the truly wealthy because they have a harder time hiding it

They dumbass... read this.

Who pays more taxes?

Wealthy family:
- Earns as household $2,000,000
- Family business hires 100 people
- 2 homes (pays $20,000 property tax on both per year)
- 3 cars (pays total of $7000 property tax per year)
- One boat (pays $10,000 per year property tax)
- Purchases about $20,000 per year in products paying about 7% sales tax = $1400
- Income tax.... I have no idea how much that would be... tens of thousands i am sure
Vacation - Spends $10,000, paying sales tax all along the way.

Poor person-

Food stamps - Takes about $6000.00 from taxpayers per year
Housing - Takes approximately $10,000 per year from taxpayers
Welfare - Takes $15,000 per year from taxpayers
Income tax refund - $4000 per year.

So.. who pays more and contributes to society more?

Who benefits more from our society?

If available wealth were a pizza cut into ten slices to be divided among ten people, one person would be claiming nine slices while the remaining nine fight over the remaining slice. Your poor person in your example would be fighting for a crumb and you would begrudge him for it.

First of all... you assume there is a limited supply of wealth. There isn't. Just because someoen makes alot of money doesn't mean that money isn't available to you. If I am rich and then all the sudden I am not.... how does that benefit you? If all the rich suddenly weren't rich, how does that benefit poor people? Do you think that money will be given to the poor without them earning it?

Your ignorance on this matter is absolutely stunning. Please tell me you are not procreating?!


No, I would begrudge him for wallowing in his poverty and taking from others. He should support himself.

You on the otherhand, because you can't do it yourself, demand that people that succeed should pay for your shortcomings.

You hate these people because they succeed. You hate them because you have been taught by your party leaders to hate them... yet.. they contribute greatly to making the country work while the parasites live off them and their good nature.

You and those like you are some of the most disgusting people on this earth. You have no right to anything that these people earn... even though you already get plenty of it from them already.

 

[Nonelitist]

One question for all you lib money thieves out there.....


If all the rich that you hate weren't rich all the sudden... how does that help you or the economy?

Please answer the question and refrain from resorting to namecalling just because you dno't have an answer.

 

[rightwinger]

One question for all you lib money thieves out there.....


If all the rich that you hate weren't rich all the sudden... how does that help you or the economy?

Please answer the question and refrain from resorting to namecalling just because you dno't have an answer.

Once again overly dramatic hysterics from the right

Nobody is advocating making rich people poor. The super rich in this country will always be super rich. The reallocation of wealth being advocated is to revoke tax and labor incentives given to the wealthy which enable them to claim a larger slice of the pie.

Working Americans are putting in more hours for less. Their ability to afford a home, car, energy, education for their children, healthcare...have all diminished in recent years while the rich get............richer

 

[antagon]

flat taxes are pies in the sky for idiots to eat. name a country that subscribes to such a garbage system... then explain how such a backwards marginal economy stands to compare to the US and other developed economies among which NONE have adopted a retarded flat tax scheme.

 

[Foxfyre]

You have no right to anything that these people earn... even though you already get plenty of it from them already.

This relates to my frequently used illustration of Citizen A and Citizen B.

Citizen A's parents worked hard, moved into a nice neighborhood wth good schools, provided Citizen A with the finest education and every advantage, and, as a wedding present, provided him the seed money to start his own business in which he was quite successful and became quite wealthy.

Citizen B's parents were druggies and neer-do-wells, subsisting in government run projects, odd jobs, unemploymemnt, and whatever public services they could exploit. Citizen B went to poor, crime ridden schools, and pretty much emulated his parents' lifestyle.

Our more progressive friends here would say that Citizen A, with all his advantages, is rightfully responsible for Citizen B's plight and has a duty to share his wealth with him.

However. . . . .

If Citizen A dropped out of that excellent school, got mixed up in illegal substances and crime, and generally goofed off his youth, never held much of a steady job, squandered his inheritance, and wound up a statistic below the poverty line. . . .

While Citizen B educated himself in spite of the poor schools, worked at whatever he could get to acquire references, a work ethic, and learn a marketable trade, then worked hard and made himself into a wealthy man. . . .

Those same progressive friends would say that Citizen B has a duty to share his wealth with Citizen A.

They would say so even if Citizen A and Citizen B started out on equal footing from the beginning and one wound up substantially better off than the other.

And they believe that is the morally superior stance.

 

[DiamondDave]

flat taxes are pies in the sky for idiots to eat. name a country that subscribes to such a garbage system... then explain how such a backwards marginal economy stands to compare to the US and other developed economies among which NONE have adopted a retarded flat tax scheme.

Yeah... because equal treatment and equality are garbage systems

Flat tax takes power away from government.. and government's don't readily give that up... THAT is why you have not really seen it happen... easier to get votes when you vilify and promote class warfare

 

[Nonelitist]

One question for all you lib money thieves out there.....


If all the rich that you hate weren't rich all the sudden... how does that help you or the economy?

Please answer the question and refrain from resorting to namecalling just because you dno't have an answer.

Once again overly dramatic hysterics from the right

Nobody is advocating making rich people poor. The super rich in this country will always be super rich. The reallocation of welth being advocated is to revoke tax and labor incentives given to the wealthy which enable them to claim a larger slice of the pie.

Working Americans are putting in more hours for less. Their ability to afford a home, car, energy, education for their children, healthcare...have all diminished in recent years while the rich get............richer

Off course the rich get richer... shouldn't they? They make money off their money... simple enough to understand isn't it? They own businesses that make money.

This recession is due, in part, to a massive destruction of wealth. Did the poor lose wealth? Stupid question huh. So who lost it? The wealthy did.... has that helped the economy? What you need to admit is that you don't care about the economy or the poor, you just want the wealthy punished cause you don't like them... you are jealous.. you want what they have but don't have the character to do it yourself. Blame your parents, not society.

So... what is your solution? How do get poor people to make more money? Be specific please.

 

[rightwinger]

One question for all you lib money thieves out there.....


If all the rich that you hate weren't rich all the sudden... how does that help you or the economy?

Please answer the question and refrain from resorting to namecalling just because you dno't have an answer.

Once again overly dramatic hysterics from the right

Nobody is advocating making rich people poor. The super rich in this country will always be super rich. The reallocation of welth being advocated is to revoke tax and labor incentives given to the wealthy which enable them to claim a larger slice of the pie.

Working Americans are putting in more hours for less. Their ability to afford a home, car, energy, education for their children, healthcare...have all diminished in recent years while the rich get............richer

Off course the rich get richer... shouldn't they? They make money off their money... simple enough to understand isn't it? They own businesses that make money.

So... what is your solution? How do get poor people to make more money? Be specific please.

They own businesses that make money?

And who bailed them out when they stopped making money? Who got the extravagant bonus when their business failed?

Another example of the golden rule

 

[Nonelitist]

Once again overly dramatic hysterics from the right

Nobody is advocating making rich people poor. The super rich in this country will always be super rich. The reallocation of welth being advocated is to revoke tax and labor incentives given to the wealthy which enable them to claim a larger slice of the pie.

Working Americans are putting in more hours for less. Their ability to afford a home, car, energy, education for their children, healthcare...have all diminished in recent years while the rich get............richer

Off course the rich get richer... shouldn't they? They make money off their money... simple enough to understand isn't it? They own businesses that make money.

So... what is your solution? How do get poor people to make more money? Be specific please.

They own businesses that make money?

And who bailed them out when they stopped making money? Who got the extravagant bonus when their business failed?

Another example of the golden rule

You retarded little twit.

How many got those bailouts? Probably less than .000000000001% of all rich people we are talking about.

But you know what.. lets talk about them. So lets pretend they didn't get those bailouts or bonuses... how does that help you or any other poor person? Is there a program I am missing that takes that money and gives it to the homeless or something?

YOU AREN'T ANSWERING ANY QUESTIONS. UNTIL YOU DO I WILL CONSIDER YOU STUPIFIED BY A SIMPLE QUESTION.

 

[rightwinger]

So... what is your solution? How do get poor people to make more money? Be specific please.

The living wage for working Americans has steadily decreased over the last 20 years. They work more hours for less reimbursement. Health costs are out of reach for many. Education debt is ruining the next generation. Housing and energy costs exceed take home pay. The American dream is turning into just a dream.

I don't advocate a Robin Hood handout of cash. I do advocate more tax incentives for healthcare and education costs. I would like to see more Government subsidy of affordable housing and energy credits.

 

[Nonelitist]

So... what is your solution? How do get poor people to make more money? Be specific please.

The living wage for working Americans has steadily decreased over the last 20 years. They work more hours for less reimbursement. Health costs are out of reach for many. Education debt is ruining the next generation. Housing and energy costs exceed take home pay. The American dream is turning into just a dream.

I don't advocate a Robin Hood handout of cash. I do advocate more tax incentives for healthcare and education costs. I would like to see more Government subsidy of affordable housing and energy credits.

Ok... so how does the govt pay for those programs?

 

[Foxfyre]

Once again overly dramatic hysterics from the right

Nobody is advocating making rich people poor. The super rich in this country will always be super rich. The reallocation of welth being advocated is to revoke tax and labor incentives given to the wealthy which enable them to claim a larger slice of the pie.

Working Americans are putting in more hours for less. Their ability to afford a home, car, energy, education for their children, healthcare...have all diminished in recent years while the rich get............richer

Off course the rich get richer... shouldn't they? They make money off their money... simple enough to understand isn't it? They own businesses that make money.

So... what is your solution? How do get poor people to make more money? Be specific please.

They own businesses that make money?

And who bailed them out when they stopped making money? Who got the extravagant bonus when their business failed?

Another example of the golden rule

Now think about that. Most businesses that fail just fail. Nobody bails them out. Those who put their energy, vision, time, and money into the business take the hit. And most of them pick themselves up and keep right on working at something. That's the way the world is supposed to be. No guarantee of success or compensation if you fail. But a guarantee that you have the right to reach for the brass ring - to try.

Some people are not motivated to try. They subsist. Whose fault is that? The rich? Or those who just don't want to put in the effort to get it done?

And some get government bailouts because the government selects them as somehow being 'too big to fail'. Whose fault is that? The rich? Or the government who bails them out?

You won't condemn or despise the government who gave your money to the bailed out corporation, but you only blame and despise the one receiving it. How does one reconcile that in the mind?

 

[Some Guy]

You won't condemn or despise the government who gave your money to the bailed out corporation, but you only blame and despise the one receiving it. How does one reconcile that in the mind?

Damn you. You beat me to it.

In one breath, "the rich" are assholes for being bailed out, as if it some magical entity that's made the decision to bail them out. In another thread, we'll see that the bail outs were absolutely necessary to keep this nation afloat.

Contrary to popular belief, you indeed can have it both ways.

 

[Nonelitist]

Just a side point...

I will pose it as a question:

Who did Robin Hood rob?

Also... that is one hot chick on my avatar... don't ya think?