The Fiscal Cliff and Budget Negotiations

Discussion in 'Economy' started by Foxfyre, Nov 24, 2012.

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What do you want the federal government to do re the budget?

  1. Everybody should agree to Obama’s plan as it is.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. TThe most important thing is to get the economy moving.

    3 vote(s)
    42.9%
  3. We must protect social spending at all costs.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. The most important thing is reducing the national debt.

    2 vote(s)
    28.6%
  5. Let's just do the fiscal cliff thing.

    1 vote(s)
    14.3%
  6. Other and I'll explain in my post.

    1 vote(s)
    14.3%
  1. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    The challenge here is to state what you want to happen in the budget negotiations with the following rules:

    1. No blaming anybody, Democrat or Republican, for getting us into the current mess.
    2. Focus on what you WANT the Congress to do or not do regardless of who votes on what.


    At stake in the current budget deal necessary to avoid the fiscal cliff:

    If nothing is done, massive across the board budget cuts will hit the most vulnerable people the hardest. Also just some of what must be considered:

    Income tax rates will go up.

    AMT kicks back in at 2000 rates.

    The capital-gains tax rate will increase to 20%.

    Dividend income will be taxed as ordinary income.

    The estate tax will revert to a top rate of 55%, with an exemption amount of $1 million.

    Payroll taxes will go back up (nobody seems to want to extend these)

    Debt ceiling currently at 16.4 trilllion will have to be extended

    Other tax provisions expire. Dozens of popular tax breaks expired at the end of 2011, and before 2012 ends Congress must decide whether to extend them, retroactively, to the beginning of this year. The list includes several business provisions as well as a variety of deductions for individual filers, including the IRA charitable rollover, which allowed individuals over the age of 70½ to roll as much as $100,000 from their Individual Retirement Account directly to a charity. Also on the list is the important AMT "patch" discussed above.
    Excerpted from: http://www.heritage.org/research/re...s/2011/01/wm3121_chart2.ashx?w=400&h=571&as=1

    Also included is the uncertainty that is preventing American business from investing trillions of dollars of venture capital and thereby prolonging a crappy economy will continue.

    And yet many believe the President’s proposals will hit the middle class the hardest while doing little to make a dent in unacceptable budget deficits.

    While others believe the Republicans unwillingness to accept the President’s proposals are purely to obstruct his agenda and protect the rich.

    Expenditures each year:
    2008 $2,983 billion
    2009 $3,518 billion
    2010 $3,456 billion
    2011 (est.) $3,819 billion
    2012 is on track to exceed the 2011 expenditures.
    Robert Hansen's Blog: Federal Government Spending, 2008-2011

    The national debt as of 8:39 p.m. GMT today:
    [​IMG]

    And the deficits continue at a trillion plus each year and are projected to do so far into the future with the debt clock running at blurring speed.

    SO WHAT DO YOU WANT THEM TO DO?
     
  2. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    I voted for the most important factor right now is the get the economy moving and I think that will happen only if the private sector knows they have a fighting chance to make a profit if they do that. That means keeping taxes low and relatively permanent for the employers and venture capitalists. That will increase revenues far more than any bigger taxes on the 'rich' will ever do.
     
  3. Avorysuds
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    Avorysuds Gold Member

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    We should let Obama do what he wants, that way when everything falls the fuck apart, and it will, liberals and Obama can blame Bush.
     
  4. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    So your vote is to let everything fall apart? I didn't provide that option though I'm sure there are others who would have checked that option too.

    I rather think most of us do want what is best for the country and letting it fall or part may or may not be the best way to accomplish that.
     
  5. Mad Scientist
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    Mad Scientist Deplorable Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Raise the Debt Limit to Infinity and stop paying Income Taxes.

    The US Gov't can borrow 100% of what it spends instead of just 50%.

    This won't matter one bit as some people say the debt limit means nothing.

    Amirite?
     
  6. Paulie
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    Paulie Platinum Member

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    Give big business their tax break. Make like it's permanent, and then sit back and watch what they do with it. If they invest and hire, great. If they pocket it, go back and redo the legislation and hit them where it hurts.

    Seems simple and yet everyone is making it so hard.
     
  7. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    It matters if you look forward to living in a third world country. But again, there are some people who really think that is the way we should live.
     
  8. Toro
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    Toro Diamond Member

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    Actually, most of the Fiscal Cliff is the expiring Bush tax cuts. The Fiscal Cliff is about $500 billion in tax increases and $100 billion in spending cuts, of which half are cuts to defense.

    And the Democrats hold all the cards. If the Republicans want to reprise the last two years where they refused to co-operate on anything, taxes will increase and the Republican game of chicken will have backfired on them.
     
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  9. Toro
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    Toro Diamond Member

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    Not raising the debt ceiling gets us closer to being like a third world country, risking the specter of a default like some basket case Latin American nation from the 1980s.
     
  10. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    It isn't big business I am really concerned with. It is the Mom & Pop enterprises that are going to be hit with those 'tax the rich' taxes and I simply haven't found a way that can happen without losing more jobs.

    What I really want to happen is to settle on business-friendly rates with removal of enough unnecessary regulation so that everybody running a business that requires staff will be encouraged and confident in expanding and hiriing people.
     

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