The Big Bang

Discussion in 'Science and Technology' started by RetiredGySgt, Dec 24, 2007.

  1. RetiredGySgt
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    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

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    Explain to me what existed before the big bang. Then explain to me HOW what ever that was came to exist. THEN explain why THAT is more believable then my belief in a God.
     
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  2. doniston
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    doniston Member

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    Why should anyone beleive that the Big bang is true? or that God is real? or that neither one is real for thast matter. None of us will ever know ---at least while we are alive.
     
  3. Dr Grump
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    Dr Grump Gold Member

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    I'd say generally that your belief is just as valid as the Big Bang, with one main qualifier.

    The belief in a god - in most societies - has been constant throughout the ages. Almost all of these gods have required nothing but a belief.

    Science has morphed over the centuries. From those believing the sun revolved around the Earth to those believing that lightening was caused by Gods letting off steam.
    These days we know what can stop people from catching measles, mumps or any one of a number of diseases. Science has allowed people to go into space, fly in aeroplanes, play on computers. The one constant in science is the ability to prove how certain things come about. The only constant belief in a god is faith. Guess which one is more provable? Hint, it ain't god..:cool:
     
  4. RetiredGySgt
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    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

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    The question is asked because lately this board has been hit with the " God doesn't exist because you can not prove it" garbage, in fact it has even been more blatant then that. Believers in Gods have been labeled on this board as idiots and fools.


    One of the arguments used is " how did God come to be" so I ask, how did what ever caused the Big Bang come to be? If you do not believe in Gods and do not believe in the Big bang, then the question remains, how did things come to be?

    As for "proof" it all comes back to what started it all. All science can do is show us processes. It can not provide any answers to the "where did it come from" questions.

    The argument that a complex being like God can not exist out of nothing begs the question how did all life actually begin. Science can NOT answer the question. All science claims is that by pure dumb luck we evolved from rocks.
     
  5. onedomino
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    onedomino SCE to AUX

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    Your post is evidence that we have not evolved very far from rocks. We have been able to write our names for barely 5000 years. If we were much younger, we would not exist. Modern humans have been here for less than 200,000 years. Our planet is more than 20,000 times older than we are. If we are still here, what will we know ten thousand years from now? One million years from now? Compared to what will be known, what we know now is very close to zero. There are more scientists alive today than all the scientists that have previously existed added together. Categorical statements about what we cannot do, or cannot understand, are premature to say the least. Even now we know the ingredients of life, we will figure out the recipe.
     
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  6. Shogun
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    Shogun Free: Mudholes Stomped

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    I'm still inviting you to post YOUR evidence, RGS. I want to know if you realyl understand the principals that make science what it is beyond blind dogma thumping. I want to see of you will step up to the challenge of the Scientific standard instead of talking rhetorical shit that would have made Socrates stifle a giggle.
     
  7. midcan5
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    midcan5 liberal / progressive

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    The fact that we do exist is proof something exists and that something existed. I'm not sure saying what existed before the big bang is a relevant argument as we can see the result. God is another big bang and an act of faith. The problem for most of those who don't believe is they do not see proof of a caring being. God is a more complex concept than the big bang, but actually everyone is an atheist except for the one God they believe in.
     
  8. Gunny
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    Gunny Gold Member

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    The challenge is to post the evidence that proves the Big Bang. You cannot. There is none. It is a theory. In layman's terms, guesswork.

    The belief in a Creator is no more or less substantianted by evidence than "the Big Bang." You're just willing to accept the latter because it contradicts the former, and suits YOUR beliefs.
     
  9. doniston
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    doniston Member

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    You want him to post his evidence but apparently you are not willing to post yours. Because that suits YOUR belief system.

    I happen to agree that the proof is wasnting in both cases.
     
  10. onedomino
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    onedomino SCE to AUX

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    Gunny, the possibility that the Big Bang occurred does in no way contradict the existence of God.

    Essentially there are three mathematically described ideas about the life of the Universe. First, that the Universe came into existence with the Big Bang and that it did not exist prior to that event. Second, that our observable Universe is just the latest iteration of an infinite number of expansions and contractions, the cusps of these oscillations are Big Bangs. Third that there have been no Big Bang(s) and that the Universe is in a "Steady State." Current empirical observations (measurements) best support the first of these ideas.

    This is no place for a discussion of mathematical cosmology so I'll just list some of the observational evidence for the Big Bang.

    In 1929 Edwin Hubble (after whom the famous telescope is named) discovered that the Universe is expanding. In particular he discovered that all galaxies (except the local group) are receding from us at a rate that is proportionate to their distance. The further they are away, the faster they are receding.

    Data indicates that our position in the Universe is not special. We speak of the homogeneity of the Universe. That is, the composition, or the structure, of the Universe is the same no matter the position of the observer.

    The Universe is isotropic. That is, the distribution of matter and energy seems to be the same no matter which direction an observation takes. The sky looks the same in every direction to one part in 100,000.

    Radio source data and quasar counts indicate that the Universe has evolved over time. Very deep space measurements show that the structure of the Universe has changed over time.

    The existence of uniform background blackbody radiation demonstrates that the Universe evolved from a dense state of uniform temperature. This empirical data eliminated the Steady State theory from serious consideration.

    The current distribution of light isotopes of hydrogen, helium, and lithium agrees remarkably well with that distribution mathematically predicted by the Big Bang theory.

    These are some of the observations that support the Big Bang theory and diminish the possibility that the Steady State theory is correct. How can we decide between the singular Big Bang and multiple Big Bang theories? We do not know for sure, but the data seems to best support the fact that not only is the Universe expanding, but the rate of that expansion is increasing. When we wind the clock back on the expansion of the Universe to time zero, we find that the Big Bang took place about 15 billion years ago. From that point, the Universe has expanded and the critical question has been: is there enough matter in the Universe to slow through gravitation the expansion and ultimately cause a contraction to yet another singularity and another Big Bang. The answer appears to be that there is not enough matter to slow the expansion. In fact, the expansion rate is increasing.

    Does any of this prove the Big Bang theory? No. But as increased amounts of more precise data are accumulated, the support for the Big Bang theory grows stronger. As the clock winds back to time zero, mathematical physics can adequately describe the model to beyond a trillionth of a second just after the actual Big Bang. But there the model breaks down and fails to describe the singularity (as it's called) that existed at the moment of the Big Bang. So we need to develop new mathematics to improve the model.

    If the Big Bang is correct, it in no way precludes the existence of God. We cannot say what the singularity was, or what, if anything, existed before it. We are free to propose that all of what we describe is within the realm of God. And no preacher, or book, can tell you different.
     
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