Teachers and other Government Retirees

DGS49

Diamond Member
Apr 12, 2012
15,580
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Pittsburgh
I very recently retired at age 66 (my S.O. continues to work at age 64), and as I participate in "stuff" that retired people do (golf, vacation, bowl, etc), I am AMAZED at the percentage of people I encounter who are long-time retirees from Government jobs - mainly teachers. On a European river cruise two weeks ago, more than half of the passengers were retired government. Most retired in their EARLY 50's, and as I encounter them, although they are the same age as I am, they have been retired for more than a decade.

Statistically, this is not surprising. Government retirement plans provide for a solid "middle class" lifestyle in retirement, and given normal life expectancies, someone retiring at age, say, 53 will be retired and healthy for TWO or THREE TIMES as long as someone who retires at a "normal" 65 or - now - 66 years old.

How did this phenomenon come about? Simple. In the 60's and 70's, the best private sector employers were providing for 30-year retirement on a "defined benefit" basis, and government employers were following that trend. Parenthetically one might note the incestuous nature of government employee union negotiations. Those on the "Management" side of the table knew that any benefits that it conceded to the unions in negotiations would shortly be given back to them, as Management, in spades, thus the motivation to negotiate a "tough" contract was - hate to say it - non-existent.

But a funny thing happened in the private sector. The companies that were providing these lavish and early pensions ALL either went bankrupt (!) or switched to 401k's. Nevertheless, the Government pensions not only went on, uninterrupted by reality, but often became much sweeter than they already were. This was the result of later provisions that calculated the retirement stipend on the HIGHEST lifetime earnings, and the Government employees, with the full cooperation of their managers, were working gobs of OVERTIME to artificially inflate their retirement checks.

It is amazingly perverse!

And now the REST OF US - those of us who are paying income, wage, and school taxes - are paying for these inflated pensions, and being PROMISED that our taxes will be increasing dramatically to cover the known future costs, WHILE NOTHING IS DONE TO CORRECT THE INSANE GENEROSITY OF THE PLANS THAT ARE IN PLACE!

Nobody is even talking about the fact that Government workers are STILL retiring in their early 50's, that their pensions are STILL based on overtime-inflated earnings, and that the taxpayers are ALSO ON THE HOOK for "Cadillac" health benefits both before and after the retires are eligible for MEDICARE.

In short, our state and local elected officials have created a class of citizens who are figuratively picking all of our pockets; in many cases impoverishing our Senior Citizens (with property taxes) to the point where they may have to apply for various forms of public assistance themselves, all to support an insanely generous retirement package for people who, if truth be known, weren't exactly high performers when they were working! 40 years ago, the only people who went to work for Government were the people who couldn't get a job in the private sector - especially engineers, accountants, and lawyers - "bottom of the class."

And the politicians uniformly tell us, there's nothing that can be done about it. "Maybe," they say, "we can implement a 401k deal for new hires," [after we are all dead], "but we can't take away what has been promised to current government employees."

We are getting fucked, and I don't like it.
 
Teachers in my state have what looks to be a pretty nice retirement package, until you see that there is no provision for health insurance. They don't get Social Security, just the pension, so if they retire younger than age 65 they'd better have a lot salted away to pay for medical insurance. It takes a big chunk out of a monthly check that reflects only a fraction of what the retiree was making while working, and back then, health insurance was part of the pay package. Retired, it's modest retirement income and no health insurance.

I learned all this when a schoolteacher friend of ours came to me for retirement advice. I was surprised at the setup. She pays nothing for health insurance while teaching, but gets no health insurance when she retires. Apparently the state figures it's cheaper than the conventional cost-sharing of premiums for a group plan before and after retirement like at other places with a retirement plan.
 
Parenthetically one might note the incestuous nature of government employee union negotiations.

Pay then was very low for govt. employees, in the USA at this time..

Govt union negotiations are one-sided with no resistance on the other end. I negotiate union contracts and I work very hard to match my opponent but I'm fighting to save an enterprise when I do. No public sector negotiator offers up 1/10th the effort and I've had several confirm the feigned resistance. It's corrupt and misappropriation of tax funds.
 
I very recently retired at age 66 (my S.O. continues to work at age 64), and as I participate in "stuff" that retired people do (golf, vacation, bowl, etc), I am AMAZED at the percentage of people I encounter who are long-time retirees from Government jobs - mainly teachers. On a European river cruise two weeks ago, more than half of the passengers were retired government. Most retired in their EARLY 50's, and as I encounter them, although they are the same age as I am, they have been retired for more than a decade.

Statistically, this is not surprising. Government retirement plans provide for a solid "middle class" lifestyle in retirement, and given normal life expectancies, someone retiring at age, say, 53 will be retired and healthy for TWO or THREE TIMES as long as someone who retires at a "normal" 65 or - now - 66 years old.

How did this phenomenon come about? Simple. In the 60's and 70's, the best private sector employers were providing for 30-year retirement on a "defined benefit" basis, and government employers were following that trend. Parenthetically one might note the incestuous nature of government employee union negotiations. Those on the "Management" side of the table knew that any benefits that it conceded to the unions in negotiations would shortly be given back to them, as Management, in spades, thus the motivation to negotiate a "tough" contract was - hate to say it - non-existent.

But a funny thing happened in the private sector. The companies that were providing these lavish and early pensions ALL either went bankrupt (!) or switched to 401k's. Nevertheless, the Government pensions not only went on, uninterrupted by reality, but often became much sweeter than they already were. This was the result of later provisions that calculated the retirement stipend on the HIGHEST lifetime earnings, and the Government employees, with the full cooperation of their managers, were working gobs of OVERTIME to artificially inflate their retirement checks.

It is amazingly perverse!

And now the REST OF US - those of us who are paying income, wage, and school taxes - are paying for these inflated pensions, and being PROMISED that our taxes will be increasing dramatically to cover the known future costs, WHILE NOTHING IS DONE TO CORRECT THE INSANE GENEROSITY OF THE PLANS THAT ARE IN PLACE!

Nobody is even talking about the fact that Government workers are STILL retiring in their early 50's, that their pensions are STILL based on overtime-inflated earnings, and that the taxpayers are ALSO ON THE HOOK for "Cadillac" health benefits both before and after the retires are eligible for MEDICARE.

In short, our state and local elected officials have created a class of citizens who are figuratively picking all of our pockets; in many cases impoverishing our Senior Citizens (with property taxes) to the point where they may have to apply for various forms of public assistance themselves, all to support an insanely generous retirement package for people who, if truth be known, weren't exactly high performers when they were working! 40 years ago, the only people who went to work for Government were the people who couldn't get a job in the private sector - especially engineers, accountants, and lawyers - "bottom of the class."

And the politicians uniformly tell us, there's nothing that can be done about it. "Maybe," they say, "we can implement a 401k deal for new hires," [after we are all dead], "but we can't take away what has been promised to current government employees."

We are getting fucked, and I don't like it.
[/QUOTE]

Actually, I think you did indeed like believing you got fucked. Cause it just does not happen in the real world.

Wow, now that was a lot of creative bs. Just the normal con troll knocking teachers. I applaud teachers for doing what stupid people are unable to, which is to provide those who care to learn, the opportunity to do so. Of course, you as a con troll prefer to simply be told what to believe. With no need for that nasty study stuff. And remaining within their group of ignorant cons feeds their need for group think. Sad. I feel a bit guilty that I was selflessly taught by teachers who never enjoyed the income they helped me to achieve. And being rational is not a desired trait among the ignorant con. Sad.
 
Parenthetically one might note the incestuous nature of government employee union negotiations.

Pay then was very low for govt. employees, in the USA at this time..

Govt union negotiations are one-sided with no resistance on the other end. I negotiate union contracts and I work very hard to match my opponent but I'm fighting to save an enterprise when I do. No public sector negotiator offers up 1/10th the effort and I've had several confirm the feigned resistance. It's corrupt and misappropriation of tax funds.
If only taxpayers could somehow express their dissatisfaction with their representatives inexpertly negotiating with taxpayer money... If there were only something voters could do...

Seems like, somehow in our system of government, taxpayers and voters would have an avenue for redress on issues involving how taxpayer moneys are distributed.

Apparently not, if this is the way it works.
 
Dear Al:

School board members are volunteers, working part time without pay for a whole raft of possible reasons, most of which are nefarious. When you vote out one volunteer, s/he will be replaced with another, likely no better.

The negotiators for "Management" represent these volunteers and the management of the school district, which will, collectively receive the same pay increases, benefits, and so forth that they concede to the teachers' union. In general terms, this is known as "self dealing."

While there are certainly many school districts in the country where teachers are still under-paid, the inevitable incestuous underpinnings of The Process have resulted in, as I said, a new class of worker, well paid, provided for handsomely, and utterly protected from the ravages of the economy or the job market.

In fact, other than ridiculous posturing, the TAXPAYERS are never fairly represented at the bargaining table, as is manifestly demonstrated by the phenomenon I mentioned at the top of this thread,, to wit, millions of retired government employees enjoying long, happy, secure retirements, at the expense of those who did nothing to deserve that burden.
 
Dear Al:

School board members are volunteers, working part time without pay for a whole raft of possible reasons, most of which are nefarious. When you vote out one volunteer, s/he will be replaced with another, likely no better.

The negotiators for "Management" represent these volunteers and the management of the school district, which will, collectively receive the same pay increases, benefits, and so forth that they concede to the teachers' union. In general terms, this is known as "self dealing."

While there are certainly many school districts in the country where teachers are still under-paid, the inevitable incestuous underpinnings of The Process have resulted in, as I said, a new class of worker, well paid, provided for handsomely, and utterly protected from the ravages of the economy or the job market.

In fact, other than ridiculous posturing, the TAXPAYERS are never fairly represented at the bargaining table, as is manifestly demonstrated by the phenomenon I mentioned at the top of this thread,, to wit, millions of retired government employees enjoying long, happy, secure retirements, at the expense of those who did nothing to deserve that burden.
If your premise is true, the rest follows.

Support your premise.
 
"Government workers are STILL retiring in their early 50's,"

??????
You only see a limited sample, perhaps military or police retirees.
The Gov workers i know can't/don't retire until at least in their 60's, or they get very limited benefits.
.
 
I spent 33 years working for the Federal Government.....retired at 55

Tried it for eight months and went back to work double dipping, now trying to earn enough credits for SS
 
Last edited:
I very recently retired at age 66 (my S.O. continues to work at age 64), and as I participate in "stuff" that retired people do (golf, vacation, bowl, etc), I am AMAZED at the percentage of people I encounter who are long-time retirees from Government jobs - mainly teachers. On a European river cruise two weeks ago, more than half of the passengers were retired government. Most retired in their EARLY 50's, and as I encounter them, although they are the same age as I am, they have been retired for more than a decade.

Statistically, this is not surprising. Government retirement plans provide for a solid "middle class" lifestyle in retirement, and given normal life expectancies, someone retiring at age, say, 53 will be retired and healthy for TWO or THREE TIMES as long as someone who retires at a "normal" 65 or - now - 66 years old.

How did this phenomenon come about? Simple. In the 60's and 70's, the best private sector employers were providing for 30-year retirement on a "defined benefit" basis, and government employers were following that trend. Parenthetically one might note the incestuous nature of government employee union negotiations. Those on the "Management" side of the table knew that any benefits that it conceded to the unions in negotiations would shortly be given back to them, as Management, in spades, thus the motivation to negotiate a "tough" contract was - hate to say it - non-existent.

But a funny thing happened in the private sector. The companies that were providing these lavish and early pensions ALL either went bankrupt (!) or switched to 401k's. Nevertheless, the Government pensions not only went on, uninterrupted by reality, but often became much sweeter than they already were. This was the result of later provisions that calculated the retirement stipend on the HIGHEST lifetime earnings, and the Government employees, with the full cooperation of their managers, were working gobs of OVERTIME to artificially inflate their retirement checks.

It is amazingly perverse!

And now the REST OF US - those of us who are paying income, wage, and school taxes - are paying for these inflated pensions, and being PROMISED that our taxes will be increasing dramatically to cover the known future costs, WHILE NOTHING IS DONE TO CORRECT THE INSANE GENEROSITY OF THE PLANS THAT ARE IN PLACE!

Nobody is even talking about the fact that Government workers are STILL retiring in their early 50's, that their pensions are STILL based on overtime-inflated earnings, and that the taxpayers are ALSO ON THE HOOK for "Cadillac" health benefits both before and after the retires are eligible for MEDICARE.

In short, our state and local elected officials have created a class of citizens who are figuratively picking all of our pockets; in many cases impoverishing our Senior Citizens (with property taxes) to the point where they may have to apply for various forms of public assistance themselves, all to support an insanely generous retirement package for people who, if truth be known, weren't exactly high performers when they were working! 40 years ago, the only people who went to work for Government were the people who couldn't get a job in the private sector - especially engineers, accountants, and lawyers - "bottom of the class."

And the politicians uniformly tell us, there's nothing that can be done about it. "Maybe," they say, "we can implement a 401k deal for new hires," [after we are all dead], "but we can't take away what has been promised to current government employees."

We are getting fucked, and I don't like it.
Military can retire after +20 years....if they join at 18, that is 38. You begrudge us our retirement?
 
Teachers in my state have what looks to be a pretty nice retirement package, until you see that there is no provision for health insurance. They don't get Social Security, just the pension, so if they retire younger than age 65 they'd better have a lot salted away to pay for medical insurance. It takes a big chunk out of a monthly check that reflects only a fraction of what the retiree was making while working, and back then, health insurance was part of the pay package. Retired, it's modest retirement income and no health insurance.

I learned all this when a schoolteacher friend of ours came to me for retirement advice. I was surprised at the setup. She pays nothing for health insurance while teaching, but gets no health insurance when she retires. Apparently the state figures it's cheaper than the conventional cost-sharing of premiums for a group plan before and after retirement like at other places with a retirement plan.
I know that here in CA, teachers get no Social Security...nor do they get their spouse's Social Security.
 
I spent 33 years working for the Federal Government.....retired at 55
What percentage of your income at retirement did you get as a pension?
The Gov retirees i know got at least 33% more if they retired @ 60 instead of 55.
 
I very recently retired at age 66 (my S.O. continues to work at age 64), and as I participate in "stuff" that retired people do (golf, vacation, bowl, etc), I am AMAZED at the percentage of people I encounter who are long-time retirees from Government jobs - mainly teachers. On a European river cruise two weeks ago, more than half of the passengers were retired government. Most retired in their EARLY 50's, and as I encounter them, although they are the same age as I am, they have been retired for more than a decade.

Statistically, this is not surprising. Government retirement plans provide for a solid "middle class" lifestyle in retirement, and given normal life expectancies, someone retiring at age, say, 53 will be retired and healthy for TWO or THREE TIMES as long as someone who retires at a "normal" 65 or - now - 66 years old.

How did this phenomenon come about? Simple. In the 60's and 70's, the best private sector employers were providing for 30-year retirement on a "defined benefit" basis, and government employers were following that trend. Parenthetically one might note the incestuous nature of government employee union negotiations. Those on the "Management" side of the table knew that any benefits that it conceded to the unions in negotiations would shortly be given back to them, as Management, in spades, thus the motivation to negotiate a "tough" contract was - hate to say it - non-existent.

But a funny thing happened in the private sector. The companies that were providing these lavish and early pensions ALL either went bankrupt (!) or switched to 401k's. Nevertheless, the Government pensions not only went on, uninterrupted by reality, but often became much sweeter than they already were. This was the result of later provisions that calculated the retirement stipend on the HIGHEST lifetime earnings, and the Government employees, with the full cooperation of their managers, were working gobs of OVERTIME to artificially inflate their retirement checks.

It is amazingly perverse!

And now the REST OF US - those of us who are paying income, wage, and school taxes - are paying for these inflated pensions, and being PROMISED that our taxes will be increasing dramatically to cover the known future costs, WHILE NOTHING IS DONE TO CORRECT THE INSANE GENEROSITY OF THE PLANS THAT ARE IN PLACE!

Nobody is even talking about the fact that Government workers are STILL retiring in their early 50's, that their pensions are STILL based on overtime-inflated earnings, and that the taxpayers are ALSO ON THE HOOK for "Cadillac" health benefits both before and after the retires are eligible for MEDICARE.

In short, our state and local elected officials have created a class of citizens who are figuratively picking all of our pockets; in many cases impoverishing our Senior Citizens (with property taxes) to the point where they may have to apply for various forms of public assistance themselves, all to support an insanely generous retirement package for people who, if truth be known, weren't exactly high performers when they were working! 40 years ago, the only people who went to work for Government were the people who couldn't get a job in the private sector - especially engineers, accountants, and lawyers - "bottom of the class."

And the politicians uniformly tell us, there's nothing that can be done about it. "Maybe," they say, "we can implement a 401k deal for new hires," [after we are all dead], "but we can't take away what has been promised to current government employees."

We are getting fucked, and I don't like it.

Actually, I think you did indeed like believing you got fucked. Cause it just does not happen in the real world.

Wow, now that was a lot of creative bs. Just the normal con troll knocking teachers. I applaud teachers for doing what stupid people are unable to, which is to provide those who care to learn, the opportunity to do so. Of course, you as a con troll prefer to simply be told what to believe. With no need for that nasty study stuff. And remaining within their group of ignorant cons feeds their need for group think. Sad. I feel a bit guilty that I was selflessly taught by teachers who never enjoyed the income they helped me to achieve. And being rational is not a desired trait among the ignorant con. Sad.[/QUOTE]


What the fuck troll all that for not saying a God Damn thing about the OP?

Hey asshole you do know like 30 states are in some type of trouble for unfunded pension plans?
 
I spent 33 years working for the Federal Government.....retired at 55
What percentage of your income at retirement did you get as a pension?
The Gov retirees i know got at least 33% more if they retired @ 60 instead of 55.

Pretty straight forward. 2% for every year you work

5 years more of working will get you 10% (not anymore though, FERS will get you 5%)
 
like 30 states are in some type of trouble for unfunded pension plans?
Who's fault is that? The teachers, or the people voters elected who committed their constituents to support those pension plans?


Corrupt Democrats and unions, oh yea you never want to admit that.
Evidence? You know which states he's referring to and who the individuals are who committed taxpayers to these obligations?

Or just partisan babbling?
 
I spent 33 years working for the Federal Government.....retired at 55
What percentage of your income at retirement did you get as a pension?
The Gov retirees i know got at least 33% more if they retired @ 60 instead of 55.
Pretty straight forward. 2% for every year you work

5 years more of working will get you 10% (not anymore though, FERS will get you 5%)
66% of final income at Fed Gov retirement is not bad at all, but you did not get any stock options.
:)
 
I spent 33 years working for the Federal Government.....retired at 55
What percentage of your income at retirement did you get as a pension?
The Gov retirees i know got at least 33% more if they retired @ 60 instead of 55.

Pretty straight forward. 2% for every year you work

5 years more of working will get you 10% (not anymore though, FERS will get you 5%)
No reduction for survivorship?
 

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