TEA Party derails PATRIOT Act fasttrack vote

[Dr.Drock]

Its about time too. I've been wanting this thing to go away since the day after it was introduced.

"Patriot" act meh.

If it wasn't for those tea party republicans this thing would have passed again.

It takes a lot of faith in government bureacrats to think they won't abuse the powers given to them in the Patriot Act.

and if you can't tell from my avatar I have NO FAITH in those who are currently running our government.

I have a lot of faith in the constitutional republic that is the united states government but none in those who are currently not running it within the confines of that constitution.

I educated myself politically in a very weird, nerdy kind of way in college. I read the legislation these people passed and I looked at historical trends and how they were pretty much the same whether a D or R was in office, that caused me to have no faith in anyone who runs gov't.

I have faith in people who try to take power away from themselves, money out of gov't hands, make gov't smaller and sign most of their checks from gov't back over to the treasury dept, only the Paul family does this.

 

[The Infidel]

I'll be the turd in the punch bowl....

Are there any cases of actual rights being violated?


I see the patriot act as a tool for law enforcement to watch potential bad guys. The bad guys have to 1st contact bad guys outside the US or known bad guys in the US.

I have been a bit worried about it being used by a rougue administration though.... not mentioning any names, but their initials are Barak Hussein Obama

 

[The Infidel]

and if you can't tell from my avatar I have NO FAITH in those who are currently running our government.

I have a lot of faith in the constitutional republic that is the united states government but none in those who are currently not running it within the confines of that constitution.

Yep....

 

[Dr.Drock]

I'll be the turd in the punch bowl....

Are there any cases of actual rights being violated?


I see the patriot act as a tool for law enforcement to watch potential bad guys. The bad guys have to 1st contact bad guys outside the US or known bad guys in the US.

I have been a bit worried about it being used by a rougue administration though.... not mentioning any names, but their initials are Barak Hussein Obama

Everyone's rights were violated when it got passed, your rights given in the 1st and 6th amendments have been stripped.

If you're worried about what particular bureacrats will do with it than you shouldn't want it on the books.

 

[whitehall]

What's in it that would cause you to register democrat Doc? My guess is that you vote liberal anyway.

 

[The Infidel]

Everyone's rights were violated when it got passed, your rights given in the 1st and 6th amendments have been stripped.
If you're worried about what particular bureacrats will do with it than you shouldn't want it on the books.

Please explain

 

[Dr.Drock]

What's in it that would cause you to register democrat Doc? My guess is that you vote liberal anyway.

I've never voted for a democrat in my life, I'm assuming you call them the "liberal" faction. Both status quo parties are WAY too liberal for me.

But if this were done away with it would be nothing short of a revolutionary change in bureacratic thinking.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Everyone's rights were violated when it got passed, your rights given in the 1st and 6th amendments have been stripped.
If you're worried about what particular bureacrats will do with it than you shouldn't want it on the books.

Please explain

The link in post #5 explains it perfectly by lining up the documents side by side, you can't support both, it's one or the other. Make your choice.

 

[The Infidel]

I've never voted for a democrat in my life, I'm assuming you call them the "liberal" faction. Both status quo parties are WAY too liberal for me.
But if this were done away with it would be nothing short of a revolutionary change in bureacratic thinking.

On this sir.... we agree totally!

 

[Bern80]

I'll be the turd in the punch bowl....

Are there any cases of actual rights being violated?


I see the patriot act as a tool for law enforcement to watch potential bad guys. The bad guys have to 1st contact bad guys outside the US or known bad guys in the US.

I have been a bit worried about it being used by a rougue administration though.... not mentioning any names, but their initials are Barak Hussein Obama

I don't think anyone is arguing that it is not useful from a purely utilitarian perspective. The problem is in being useful it violates the constitutionaly protected rights of American citizens.

 

[The Infidel]

Everyone's rights were violated when it got passed, your rights given in the 1st and 6th amendments have been stripped.
If you're worried about what particular bureacrats will do with it than you shouldn't want it on the books.

Please explain

The link in post #5 explains it perfectly by lining up the documents side by side, you can't support both, it's one or the other. Make your choice.

OK... I looked at it, and I can see what you mean.

I was worried about the patriot act when it was adopted. I can remember the pundits (Glenn Beck being one) were worried that if the wrong administration got in, they could potentially do exactly what you are afraid of. If you recall, I said that in a previous post.
Im just wondering if anyones rights have actually been violated using the act though....

 

[The Infidel]

I'll be the turd in the punch bowl....

Are there any cases of actual rights being violated?


I see the patriot act as a tool for law enforcement to watch potential bad guys. The bad guys have to 1st contact bad guys outside the US or known bad guys in the US.

I have been a bit worried about it being used by a rougue administration though.... not mentioning any names, but their initials are Barak Hussein Obama

I don't think anyone is arguing that it is not useful from a purely utilitarian perspective. The problem is in being useful it violates the constitutionaly protected rights of American citizens.

I do understand your concerns.... not arguing with ya on it. I dont really like it either.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Please explain

The link in post #5 explains it perfectly by lining up the documents side by side, you can't support both, it's one or the other. Make your choice.

OK... I looked at it, and I can see what you mean.

I was worried about the patriot act when it was adopted. I can remember the pundits (Glenn Beck being one) were worried that if the wrong administration got in, they could potentially do exactly what you are afraid of. If you recall, I said that in a previous post.
Im just wondering if anyones rights have actually been violated using the act though....

I hear what you're saying, but that's entirely inconsequential to me.

I'd rather get rid of government's opportunity to take advantage of its citizens than wait and find out if they will or not.

 

[The Infidel]

The link in post #5 explains it perfectly by lining up the documents side by side, you can't support both, it's one or the other. Make your choice.

OK... I looked at it, and I can see what you mean.

I was worried about the patriot act when it was adopted. I can remember the pundits (Glenn Beck being one) were worried that if the wrong administration got in, they could potentially do exactly what you are afraid of. If you recall, I said that in a previous post.
Im just wondering if anyones rights have actually been violated using the act though....

I hear what you're saying, but that's entirely inconsequential to me.

I'd rather get rid of government's opportunity to take advantage of its citizens than wait and find out if they will or not.

Guess ya won me over....

 

[KentuckyThinker]

Don't get your hopes up, it will be back on the books by next Friday.

They'll strip away the amendments, and it will pass easily.

Don't forget that they will probably rename it before bringing it back up, if it is not back as early as you say. That's what they do with massive failures to make it look like they are "doing something."

 

[rikules]

in my lifetime.

I'm not holding my breath about it staying out of government but if the most unconstitutional piece of legislation in US history stays off the books I'll sign up to become a democrat this year.

back when we conservative christian patriotic Americans created and instituted the patriot act I REALLY REALLY hated liberals for opposing it!

but now that we conservative christian patriotic Americans are trying to rid ourselves of this outrageous piece of anti-American, unconstitutional leftist legislation I hate liberals for creating it in the first place and thwarting our attempts to rid ourselves of it...

 

[Dr.Drock]

in my lifetime.

I'm not holding my breath about it staying out of government but if the most unconstitutional piece of legislation in US history stays off the books I'll sign up to become a democrat this year.

back when we conservative christian patriotic Americans created and instituted the patriot act I REALLY REALLY hated liberals for opposing it!

but now that we conservative christian patriotic Americans are trying to rid ourselves of this outrageous piece of anti-American, unconstitutional leftist legislation I hate liberals for creating it in the first place and thwarting our attempts to rid ourselves of it...

I dunno what that rant meant but I've hated both parties for no less than loving this legislation for years.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Yes but it was merely a procedural mistake. No one thought there would be enough votes to oppose the renewal of certain wiretap rules. Like a poster said earlier,they will pass it by the end of this week. It's a shame though because it looked like the Patriot Act might be in trouble.

 

[Liability]

I'll be the turd in the punch bowl....

Are there any cases of actual rights being violated?


I see the patriot act as a tool for law enforcement to watch potential bad guys. The bad guys have to 1st contact bad guys outside the US or known bad guys in the US.

I have been a bit worried about it being used by a rougue administration though.... not mentioning any names, but their initials are Barak Hussein Obama

The potential for the misuse or the abuse of laws that were already on the books PRIOR to 9/11/2001 existed in the past and will go on existing.

Are there some heightened RISKS associated with the USA PATRIOT Act, as amended? Of course.

Are these RISKS of misuse and abuse reason enough to forgo the prospect of granting our national security infrastructure the tools needed to meet the demands of protecting this Republic against the threat of shitheads like al qaeda? Nope.

Proper mechanisms to put some checks and balances into effect is what's needed, and they already exist.

The claims that the Patriot Act's provisions somehow violate the Constitution are essentially just so much hot air. They are nonsense.

 

[Dr.Drock]

I'll be the turd in the punch bowl....

Are there any cases of actual rights being violated?


I see the patriot act as a tool for law enforcement to watch potential bad guys. The bad guys have to 1st contact bad guys outside the US or known bad guys in the US.

I have been a bit worried about it being used by a rougue administration though.... not mentioning any names, but their initials are Barak Hussein Obama

The potential for the misuse or the abuse of laws that were already on the books PRIOR to 9/11/2001 existed in the past and will go on existing.

Are there some heightened RISKS associated with the USA PATRIOT Act, as amended? Of course.

Are these RISKS of misuse and abuse reason enough to forgo the prospect of granting our national security infrastructure the tools needed to meet the demands of protecting this Republic against the threat of shitheads like al qaeda? Nope.

Proper mechanisms to put some checks and balances into effect is what's needed, and they already exist.

The claims that the Patriot Act's provisions somehow violate the Constitution are essentially just so much hot air. They are nonsense.

This would be exhibit A of a person with infinite faith in bureacrats using all the power we give them for good and not evil.

Just give them whatever power they need, as surely someone as noble as a US bureacrat would never overstep their bounds and would purely use the power as a means to fight off evil doers and save us americans who could be blown up at any second if we don't give them this power.