Taxing Millionaires and Billionaires

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Wiseacre, Aug 17, 2011.

  1. Wiseacre
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    Wiseacre Retired USAF Chief Supporting Member

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    There is an interesting piece in the WSJ today entitled "Millionaires Go Missing", sorry no link, it's proprietary. The thrust of it is that this month the IRS released more detailed tax data for 2009, where the decline in numbers and revenue of the taxpaying rich is indicated.

    In 2007, some 390,000 taxpayers reported over 1 million in earnings and paid $309 billion in taxes. In 2009, there were only 237,000 such taxpayers, a decline of 39%, and they paid only $178 billion, which is a drop of 42%. So, first question: all you lib/dems oughta be jumping for joy right, WOO HOO, less income inequality! Do you how stupid this line of reasoning is?

    Further, those with 10 million or more in earning fell from 18,394 to 8,274, and their tax payments dropped by 51%. The loss of revenue during these 2 years from the Ms and Bs is about $130 billion, which is one reason why US tax revenue has sunk to nearly 15% of GDP. So how come so many fewer rich guys? Maybe some said screw it, I'm off to Aruba or Costa Rica or somewhere. Maybe some stuffed their money into gold, real estate, foreign markets, mattresses, who knows. That's what happens when you create a business unfriendly climate, part of which includes taxes on business and investments. It's also what happens when you have a recession without an accompanying recovery, but that's another argument.

    Now for the fun part - Those who make a million or more in 2009 accounted for 0.2% of all tax returns, but paid 20.4% of income taxes in 2009. Those with AGI above $200,000 a year were just under 3% of all filers but paid 50.1% of $866 billion in total personal income taxes. So, the top 3% paid more taxes than the bottom 97%. Before the recession the $200,000 group paid 54.5% of all income taxes. And you're going to tell me these guys aren't already paying their fair share? It is beyond imagining how any rational person can look at these numbers and ask for more taxes.

    The real answer for increased revenues is to persue tax reform and LOWER tax rates. Check out this snippet from the link below:


    Despite the evidence, Calmes [refers to another writer's column in the NYT] mentions that there are few precedents for paying down debt through spending cuts alone. But this is due to political, rather than economic reasons. In the current debate, tax increases are viewed as a “cost of doing business” with the Administration on deficit reduction, but this has nothing to do with the economics. When looking at the long-run budget situation, revenues are expected to climb well above their historical average of about 18.5% of GDP within the next ten years. In fact, as CBO notes in its 2011 Long Run Budget Outlook, current law already builds in more massive tax increases on American households than has been contemplated by any previous Congress in history. Although revenues have historically “average[ed] 18.0 percent [of GDP], with no evident trend over time,” under current law:

    Revenues would rise from about 15 percent of GDP in 2011 to nearly 19 percent in 2013, about 21 percent in 2021, and about 23 percent in 2035, for a total increase of more than 8 percentage points over that period. By 2035, the tax system would be quite different from what it is today. Households at all points on the income scale would pay a higher share of their income in taxes than similar households pay today, and a much larger share of households—nearly half—would be subject to the AMT.

    The new phenomenon driving the deficit is entirely on the spending side, with current spending one-quarter larger as a share of the economy as has been the U.S. historical experience. Future deficit growth is driven almost entirely by entitlement spending. If one assumes that revenues are slightly above their long run average (18.4%) over the next 25 years and no changes are made to entitlement programs, the public debt grows from 70% of GDP currently to 187% in 2035. The money available on the revenue side is trivial compared to the entitlement explosion, even if one wishes to take tax receipts to never before seen levels.

    Road Map to a Growth Economy | e21 - Economic Policies for the 21st Century
     
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    Last edited: Aug 17, 2011
  2. FuelRod
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    FuelRod Gold Member

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    If liberals were good at math they'd be conservative. Really that simple.
     
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  3. edthecynic
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    edthecynic Censored for Cynicism

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    Notice how the number of tax returns was compared to the amount paid rather than the amount of wealth and income! You can be sure that the top 3% earned a hell of a lot more than 3% of the income and capital gains!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  4. cootydog
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    cootydog Member

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    America & the Capitalism we enjoy allows us all the American Dream – the Freedom to succeed & start our own businesses. Capitalism has allowed the United States to be the most successful and Free nation in the world. In America – If you work hard & get an A+, you deserve an A+. However, Socialism’s goal is for everyone to be “equal”, and thus uses Government to perform “economic justice” on its people. Economic Justice is really the “redistribution of wealth” to penalize the successful and reward the unsuccessful. Socialism is Class-warfare, executed by a powerful Government which controls & confiscates the personal property and liberty of its people.

    Socialism’s Flaw: You can never make poor people successful by giving them other people’s hard-earned money! On the contrary, a Socialist Government instills hostility between its people through class warfare. Socialism only incentivizes laziness; wherein, people become increasingly more dependent on the Government because of its abusive power to remove Freedoms from the people, confiscating their personal property and liberty.

    America was founded on the principle of Freedom from Government (our United States Constitution & Bill of Rights). Our Founders fought & died for us: to keep Government limited. Regardless of its sales pitch of “giving to the poor”, Socialism results in a Government which invades & controls more and more of people’s lives. Power and control are transferred; instead of People ruling Government – a Socialist Government rules the People. Socialism is based on Freedom of Government; wherein, the Government determines ‘who gets what’ by controlling, confiscating, & redistributing the people’s personal properties and liberties.


    away with socialism and liberals all together
     
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  5. Wiseacre
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    Wiseacre Retired USAF Chief Supporting Member

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    Ya think?
     
  6. DontBeStupid
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    DontBeStupid Look it up!

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    Of those 0.2% of tax payers who earned over $1M, what percentage of total income did they earn?
     
  7. edthecynic
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    edthecynic Censored for Cynicism

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    Not just income, but also capital gains. The millionaires for the most part do not work for wages. Their wealth is mostly capital gains. CON$ never give that info because they are making pretty close to the % they are paying in taxes.
     
  8. Wiseacre
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    Wiseacre Retired USAF Chief Supporting Member

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    Don't know, why don't you look it up and report back to us. And while you're at it, why don't you tell us what possible difference it makes.

    Guys like you kill me, you really do. I just told you there are about 237,000 of these people and they pay over 20% of the personal income taxes in 2009, and it's just not enough for you is it? Then I told you their taxes are already slated to go up under current law without doing a fuckin' thing, and you're still not satisfied. And you think they're greedy. Amazing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2011
  9. DontBeStupid
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    DontBeStupid Look it up!

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    " In 2010, the top 20% of Americans earned 49.4% of the nation’s income, compared with the 3.4% earned by the roughly 15% of the population living below the poverty line. This earnings ratio of 14.5 to 1 was an increase from the 13.6 to 1 ratio in 2008 and a significant rise from the historic low of 7.69 to 1 in 1968."

    Income inequality in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    In other words, unless the top 20% of earners are paying roughly 50% of all income taxes, then no, they are not paying their fair share.
     
  10. DontBeStupid
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    DontBeStupid Look it up!

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    If you switch to a flat tax of 25% for all incomes, even in that situation, the wealthiest will pay a larger percentage of taxes because they make a larger percentage of income.

    Even if you don't care, it matters.
     

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