Taxes, Spending, the Fiscal Cliff, and Austerity

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by Wiseacre, Nov 26, 2012.

  1. LibertyLemming
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    LibertyLemming VIP Member

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    True that. I'll be surprised if the dollar lasts a decade.
     
  2. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    In the link in my previous post you will see that the total expenditures in 2008, the last year of the Bush administration, was $3168 trillion. And if you deduct TARP from that amount, the total would have been roughly $2,768 trillion, which was less than the year before, and the deficit in 2008 would have been roughly $87 billion.

    Had that trend continued, we would have seen the deficit erased in 2009.

    But in 2009 the Obama administration spent $3696 triillion
    But in 2010 the Obama administration spent $3,590 trillion
    But in 2011 the Obama administration spent $3,666 trillion
    But in 2012 the Obama administration spent $3,563 trillion

    And we have had trillion plus deficits every one of those years, more than double anything seen before including the worst of the Bush years.

    Is the media pushing these grim numbers to educate the public? Nope. Not a peep. Not even a whimper. It's all the obstructionist Republicans fault so far as the media is concerned. The Republicans did not pass that 2009 budget, however--to a man and woman they voted against it. And we haven't had a budget in 2010, 2011, or 2012.

    I am not excusing the excesses of the Republican representatives in the House and Senate either. They still mostly vote their own selfish interests rather than the good of the country. But you simply cannot lay all of this stuff at their feet.

    And THAT is the truth. And THAT is what we have to find a way to communicate to the people out there.
     
  3. PaulS1950
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    PaulS1950 Senior Member

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    There is only one point that can be rallied behind to prevent the demise of the USA and it is no longer important to more than half of the population:
    The bill of rights.
    If we were all against any limits or breaches of any of our rights then the government would have less power than they do now.
    Free speach is being attacked through the one-sided media, the tapping of all information that travels the communications networks and "politically correct" verbalism.
    Our right to defend ourselves is under constant attack from those who have been taught that guns are the root of all evil.
    Our right to freedom from search and seizure has been virtually removed through the use of the term "social justice" and reinforced by those who say it makes us safer.
    If all the first amendment people, second amendment advocates and fourth amendment folks got together we could do something but they have been driven apart because they do not voice their concern, if any, for the loss of the other rights.
    Most of those who are concerned over the loss of the second amenment show concern for the other losses too but it is rarely reciprocal.

    What can be done when the police bust your door down to look for and confiscate your guns? They have the power to search your home for whatever they want and to take any "dangerous" weapons they find. The local news will only report that another cache of weapons have been removed from another criminal's home and the criminal arrested or killed in the action.
     
  4. catatomic
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    catatomic Senior Member

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    "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain - and most fools do. But it takes character and self-control to be understanding and forgiving."

    I am not calling you fools, but whether you want to focus on a good decision or good politics to get it, I suggest we stop thinking of what can't happen and start looking for what can happen.
     
  5. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    As long as the name of the game is blame and/or oneupmanship and/or making the other guys look bad, and as long as the debate avoids dealing with realities but focuses on insulting or accusing somebody, the chances of us looking for solutions are nil to none.
     
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  6. Wiseacre
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    Wiseacre Retired USAF Chief Supporting Member

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    And the pols on both sides don't seem to be interested in long term solutions, but instead focus on the next election.
     
  7. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Yep. They just kicked the can down the road. Again. Six weeks ago Republicans were resisting the President's offer of $10 in spending cuts (spread over a short eternity of course) for every $1 in new taxes imposed on the rich. They opposed it because they had pledged not to raise taxes and the plan put forth gave us the taxes immediately and the spending cuts maybe sometime on down the road.

    So now what have they agreed to? $1 in spending cuts--maybe on down the road--for every $41 in new taxes that are imposed immediately.

    We're screwed.
     

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