Taxes, Spending, the Fiscal Cliff, and Austerity

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by Wiseacre, Nov 26, 2012.

  1. saveliberty
    Offline

    saveliberty Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    49,520
    Thanks Received:
    7,240
    Trophy Points:
    1,830
    Ratings:
    +30,269
    Austerity is the only option, if Obama insists on avoiding spending cuts and pushing debt ceiling increases.
     
  2. Foxfyre
    Offline

    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    50,410
    Thanks Received:
    12,333
    Trophy Points:
    2,220
    Location:
    Desert Southwest USA
    Ratings:
    +17,974
    There is much truth to that. They all talk a great game, but at the end of the day most are going to vote for whatever will keep them in power and increase their prestige, influence, and personal fortunes. But because almost all conservatives are aligned with the Republican Party--that is NOT the same thing as saying the Republican Party is conservative--the GOP reps will consider that in their votes and therefore tend to do less long term damage than the Dems. Or at least they do it more slowly.

    Here is what we are up against. (Not making any claims for the accuracy of the numbers, but do believe the conclusion is spot on):

    Source unknown:

    I'm sure they are going to do much better math with Obamacare and getting those spending cuts into place though.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2013
  3. saveliberty
    Offline

    saveliberty Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    49,520
    Thanks Received:
    7,240
    Trophy Points:
    1,830
    Ratings:
    +30,269
    The analysis fails to note the price of used trucks went up as a result of the program as well.
     
  4. Wiseacre
    Offline

    Wiseacre Retired USAF Chief Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2011
    Messages:
    6,025
    Thanks Received:
    1,192
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
    Ratings:
    +1,197
    I think many of those people who votged for Obama did so because the dems did such a good job demonizing Romney, And Romney did himself no favors with several gaffes that made him look like what the dems were saying he was. And he wasn't the greatest candidate in the world either. IOW, Obama won more cuz of his negative campaign than he did with his own record. Obviously.

    Other thing is, and don't kid yourself about this, there are a lot of people on the dole who want to keep it that way. Or they want a bailout/handout; there was a story out of Detroit about a city councilwoman who said she and Detroit voted for Obama and now she expects to get a bailout from him. The unions are the same way, as are the greenies. And Obama will do it too, if he can find a way to get around Congress and don't think he ain't trying to do just that.

    Current polls suggest that America wants less gov't spending. Repubs need to jump all over this at every opportunity, just like the dems did over the tax hikes on the wealthy. They made the repubs bite the bullet, and it is now time to return the favor. What goes around comes around.
     
  5. Foxfyre
    Offline

    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    50,410
    Thanks Received:
    12,333
    Trophy Points:
    2,220
    Location:
    Desert Southwest USA
    Ratings:
    +17,974
    But I think you either didn't hear all I tried to say, or more likely I just said it badly. :)

    I agree that those the government has made dependent, even just a little bit, are not eager to give up whatever freebies/benefits they are getting. So yes that is part of it and it is in conflict with their convictions, shared by us, about what is wrong with government. We no longer have as much of a self-sacrficing, do it for the good of the country population as we had in an earlier time. And too often it is looking to the other guy, and not ourselves, to tighten his/her belt and take one for the team.

    But I'm not buying that Romney is one who blew it. Okay he missed some great opportunities to deliver punches, but so did Obama. Okay he made some gaffes, but so did Obama. The difference is in how the media protrayed Romney's missed opportunities and gaffes. The last analysis I saw, the media coverage was something like 11 to 1 negative coverage for Romney and the GOP compared to that for Obama and the Democrats. And THAT is why so many saw Romney as different from what he was. And THAT is why a majority of Americans believe that all this is mostly the Republican's fault, and if the Republicans had not been the greed, obstructionist, all-for-the-rich creeps as the media has portrayed them, then Obama would have all this fixed by now.
     
  6. PaulS1950
    Offline

    PaulS1950 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2012
    Messages:
    1,353
    Thanks Received:
    238
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Littletown, USA
    Ratings:
    +238
    All I can say is; "Welcome to the USA (United Socialist America)."
    We, as a country, avoided the fiscal "pot hole" and sped up toward the "fiscal black hole" of a bankrupt country. We are situated to increase the national debt to 20 trillion dollars by the end of Obama's second term with higher unemployment, lower GDP, and less tax income than ever before. Prices will continue to climb across the board and over 50% of the population will be on goverment support. They already are if you count unemployment as government support. We have become a socialist country and the republic is already dead.
    The banning of all firearms is an absolute necessity to continue down this road and it will happen or we will have the greatest civil war that any country has ever suffered. Illinois is in the process of passing the first ban that will test what a state can get away with. They are banning all semi-auto rifles, pistols and shotguns and pump action shotguns; taxing and inspecting all public shooting ranges out of existence and requiring all gun owners to have and use "gun owner registration cards" just like so many countries have just before complete confiscation. The media and schools have been systematically educating our children that guns are bad - no guns are evil - for years. They have convinced a large population that the NRA (that was established with the help of the government to promote gun safety and civilian marksmanship) is an evil organization that buys political power to promote the evils of gun ownership.
    I hope that I am wrong but with all that is going on politically, in our schools and in the media I firmly believe that the USA is going the same route as Germany, The USSR, Cuba and China.
    If I wa in charge of the GOP I would refuse to run a candidate in the next presidential election because we are in a position where we are no longer able to continue the path that more than 50% of the population wants to go without losing every last bit of the freedoms and rights that we have.
    So I bid farewell to the home of the free and the land of the brave.
     
  7. Foxfyre
    Offline

    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    50,410
    Thanks Received:
    12,333
    Trophy Points:
    2,220
    Location:
    Desert Southwest USA
    Ratings:
    +17,974
    I can't argue that the danger for us all isn't there, Paul. But as long as we still have our First Amendment Rights of free speech, I do believe there are enough Americans left who want an America of the strong, the brave, and the free that we can still make a difference. But we are going to have to unify on a message and stand firm in order to do that. We can't continue to be sidetracked by poorly understoood or defined social and/or socioeconomic issues. We need to agree on one honest and positive message we can all stand by and support and articulate efficiently and start bringing converts to our side until it is a done deal.
     
  8. LibertyLemming
    Offline

    LibertyLemming VIP Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Messages:
    1,988
    Thanks Received:
    149
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    USA
    Ratings:
    +167
    Speech alone will accomplish little against action, of which the government retains all control.
     
  9. Foxfyre
    Offline

    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    50,410
    Thanks Received:
    12,333
    Trophy Points:
    2,220
    Location:
    Desert Southwest USA
    Ratings:
    +17,974
    We first have to understand the lies that are being used against freedom of the people and being used to promote more, bigger, more powerful government.

    Such as the line that is being believed by well educated people that Obama has increased spending less during his term of office than almost any other President.

    What is the simple message we can used to counter that? Something that is easily understandable?

    I use the analogy that if I spent $100 in 2008 and $200 in 2009, 2010, 2011, and 2012, I could say that I had not increased spending for three years. I don't mention that I started with an unsustainable number to begin with and that's how the media is playing it.

    http://www.heritage.org/~/media/InfoGraphics/2012/10/SRfedspendingnumbers2012p11table1_600.ashx
     
  10. saveliberty
    Offline

    saveliberty Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    49,520
    Thanks Received:
    7,240
    Trophy Points:
    1,830
    Ratings:
    +30,269
    There is no free lunch for any people. Americans will pay a price and the time is fast approaching.
     

Share This Page