Taxes, Spending, the Fiscal Cliff, and Austerity

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by Wiseacre, Nov 26, 2012.

  1. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Of course it is, but they don't care. They got what they wanted. They can claim victory that they raised taxes on those eeeeeeevil, greedy, selfish rich people and therefore they did their job. And as long as folks get their government goodies, why should they worry their little empty heads about national solvency? They figure we'll survive long enough that they will get all of theirs. And they've been brainwashed that all those who get hurt deserve that.

    It's a win-win-win for the Democrats. If the House nixes the deal, its the terrible, selfish, all-for-the-rich Republicans who get the blame for any government failure. If the House agrees to the deal, they are the ones who caved and backstabbed the people who elected them.

    Yep. Win-win-win for the Democrats any way you look at it.
     
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  2. Wiseacre
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    Wiseacre Retired USAF Chief Supporting Member

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    One would hope that with the fiscal cliff deal behind us, the democrats will stop whining about more taxes, and instead focus on spending cuts. Yeah, right.
     
  3. Trajan
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    Trajan conscientia mille testes

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    For the historically interested see this-


    “No, gentlemen, we have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. .."We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work....After eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started...and an enormous debt to boot! I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started.” – U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Morgenthau, Jr.


    U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Morgenthau, Jr., in a private meeting at the Treasury Department, May 9, 1939. Morgenthau was lamenting the fact that government deficit spending didn't have the intended effect (reducing unemployment).

    Henry Morgenthau, Jr. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
     
  4. Trajan
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    Trajan conscientia mille testes

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    that $60 Bn or so they will yield from this deal ala the 450k benchmark, will be vaporized anyway for the year, in the pork laden Sandy bill. In addition they will get less than that $60Bn next year and there after, as those folks getting hit change their investment behavior etc.

    Maryland tried it, Illinois tried it, Great Britain, its a road to no where.

    I know Boehner was behind the 8-ball, but there is no net spending drop, therefore its a travesty imho.
     
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  5. Wiseacre
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    Wiseacre Retired USAF Chief Supporting Member

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    The way I look at it, the Bush Tax Cuts already expired on 31 Dec. What the House did was restore the tax cuts for as many people as possible; they just weren't going to get more than what they got on the tax side. IMHO, it's just as well to get the tax issue off the table and get to the debt ceiling where they can work for real spending cuts. That's where they have more leverage, polls show more than half the public wants less gov't spending. I don't think the GOP will fold on this, but we'll see. And if the country goes into a recession this year or next, the repubs can put the blame on the dems and their tax and spend policies.
     
  6. saveliberty
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    saveliberty Diamond Member

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    The Democrat's out on this are accounting tricks which will show huge spending cuts post 2016.
     
  7. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    You really think the Democrats will get the blame? So far they haven't gotten the blame for anything in the last six years though they have held most of the cards for that period. The media is not going to tell it like it is.

    Some important things happened this past weekend and little or nothing of that is being prominently reported in the mainstream media. A lot of important things that should have happened and didn't are also not being prominently reported by the mainstream media.

    What is leading the headlines, the photo ops, the lead paragraphs? It is Boehner saying "F*** you" (twice) to Harry Reid. You have to really dig to find out that this was in response to Reid calling Boehner a dictator and other uncomplimentary terms.

    And such is the intellect of today's media and apparently most of those voting for our elected leadership these days.
     
  8. Wiseacre
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    Wiseacre Retired USAF Chief Supporting Member

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    I think it will be very easy for the repubs to say we gave them their tax hikes on the rich but they wouldn't cut spending. That is a winner in the red states, and maybe also in some purple states if the economy isn't any better.
     
  9. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Yes, well I hope you're right. I really do. But I lost a bet on a good steak dinner that Obama could not be re-elected in the crappy economy we have endured for four years. But I was wrong. And I am now convinced the media can convince the gullible and willing of anything in the world it wants to convince them of.

    Do you really think that all those people who voted for Obama want a crappy economy? 8+% unemployment into perpetuity? Want the nation to be financially insolvent? Want an unimiginable number of mortgages to be underwater? Want trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see? Want more than 50% of the population on some kind of government dole?

    I don't believe that most of them want that.

    But the media was able to convince them that it was the Republicans fault that things are as bad as they are and that the Republicans would continue the misery plus take away what government benefits those same people are receiving.

    So I'm not holding my breath that reality and honest assessment of the facts will prevail in the next two years either.
     
  10. derk
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    derk The Amiable Host

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    What has happened is that people keep enabling the two partys. Essentially they are different sides of the same coin. Even when the Republicans win they fail to give us less government. They are exactly like the democrats, growing government and protecting their party. Most people have become disillusioned, because they never seem able to enact reforms and STOP the Behemoth from devouring our liberty's.

    The issue most of us see now is that its the political system thats needing changed, not just the two partying politickers
     

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