Special Education in 4 yr. colleges

[chanel]

BTW psik- You like science fiction. Have you read "Harrison Bergeron"?

 

[psikeyhackr]

BTW psik- You like science fiction. Have you read "Harrison Bergeron"?

Yes I did. No doubt a very long time ago, probably more than 20 years. The title sounded familiar but I didn't remember the story. I remembered when I researched it.

I think we have the potential for the exact reverse problem today. I think it scares some people. These computers are so powerful and so cheap that if we developed GOOD educational software the effects on society could be phenomenal. Like no one can predict the ultimate effect.

But nowadays people think Star Wars is science fiction.

It is so intellectually stimulating.

psik

 

[Jackson]

Four year colleges were not designed for everyone. It is for the exceptional students but our PC culture is going out of control.

Anyone with a disability should have acquired skills to overcome or cope with their special situations while in high school. We are not giving them any chances if we take away the accepted standards and give them grades they didn't deserve.

Thomas Edison had dyslexia. He coped with the malfunction and was a brilliant man overcoming his difficulties to perform beyond the norm. That's what we have to do. Give them ways to overcome their difficulties and aspiring for greater heighths than are currently done. We don't do that with watering down curricula.

 

[old navy]

Four year colleges were not designed for everyone. It is for the exceptional students but our PC culture is going out of control.

Exactly

 

[jaffeh]

The whole modern notion of "no child left behind" is insane.

MOST people don't want to go to college. Most people just want to lean to do something fairly easy that some other people need them to do. like assembly line work or farm work.

The No child left behind notion says, undercurrent, that all people have the same intelligence and can accomplish the same. NOT. I understood the concept somewhere in the first grade, when I was in the BEST reading group but couldn't do the other work as well as the "smart" kids.

It was 1961, and I had to do what I could but understood I wasn't top notch. I actually knew then that I was not med school. I just didn't know I did.

I knew I could teach English, not a bad trade. I read well and wrote good stories. I've lived on it for thirty years. Not too highly, but I've survived.

It's reality. The smart prevail.

The Repubs insist that all life is precious...until that life is grown up and stupid. Then, not so much.

 

[Trajan]

As part of the American's with Disabilities Act, our university does offer a Counseling Center that can accommodate all kinds of disabilities. In fact, we have to take into account certain disabilities when we select online homework programs these days.

Some of these I have no issue with. For example, a seeing impaired student will need a note taker. Not an issue. I've had students with crippling arthritis that I provided notes to. Some students need a quiet testing environment or extended time. Also not a problem.

As of yet, I have not had to water down the curriculum for any of the courses I teach or supervise. I have to accommodate the students with special needs, but any student taking my class an obtaining a passing grade does so after meeting the same course objectives as any other student in the course.

this sounds inconsistent....


Some students need a quiet testing environment or extended time

then...

As of yet, I have not had to water down the curriculum for any of the courses I teach or supervise.

 

[Trajan]

Four year colleges were not designed for everyone. It is for the exceptional students but our PC culture is going out of control.

Anyone with a disability should have acquired skills to overcome or cope with their special situations while in high school. We are not giving them any chances if we take away the accepted standards and give them grades they didn't deserve.

Thomas Edison had dyslexia. He coped with the malfunction and was a brilliant man overcoming his difficulties to perform beyond the norm. That's what we have to do. Give them ways to overcome their difficulties and aspiring for greater heighths than are currently done. We don't do that with watering down curricula.

4 year graduation is....exceptional?

when did it become 'exceptional'?

 

[Jackson]

Four year colleges were not designed for everyone. It is for the exceptional students but our PC culture is going out of control.

Anyone with a disability should have acquired skills to overcome or cope with their special situations while in high school. We are not giving them any chances if we take away the accepted standards and give them grades they didn't deserve.

Thomas Edison had dyslexia. He coped with the malfunction and was a brilliant man overcoming his difficulties to perform beyond the norm. That's what we have to do. Give them ways to overcome their difficulties and aspiring for greater heighths than are currently done. We don't do that with watering down curricula.

4 year graduation is....exceptional?

when did it become 'exceptional'?

It has always been intended that a 4 year COLLEGE education is for the exceptional who desires to have a career that comes from advanced degrees. Doctors, lawyers, business managers and teachers.

That isn;t degrading anyone but watering down the curriculum or playing with grading scales does do a disservice for those for whom it is intended.

What do you teach?

 

[Dr.Traveler]

As part of the American's with Disabilities Act, our university does offer a Counseling Center that can accommodate all kinds of disabilities. In fact, we have to take into account certain disabilities when we select online homework programs these days.

Some of these I have no issue with. For example, a seeing impaired student will need a note taker. Not an issue. I've had students with crippling arthritis that I provided notes to. Some students need a quiet testing environment or extended time. Also not a problem.

As of yet, I have not had to water down the curriculum for any of the courses I teach or supervise. I have to accommodate the students with special needs, but any student taking my class an obtaining a passing grade does so after meeting the same course objectives as any other student in the course.

this sounds inconsistent....


Some students need a quiet testing environment or extended time

then...

As of yet, I have not had to water down the curriculum for any of the courses I teach or supervise.

All students, by law, take the same tests and quizzes, do the same homework, have the same grade expectations, and must meet the same learning objectives.

I don't make the adjustments, but yes, some students get extended time for medical reasons. I could see where you'd argue that those students might have a distinct advantage, but extended time isnt all that common of an adjustment. At the end of the day I just have to trust that the medical professionals that make the call can tell a faker from a person with a legitimate need.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Four year colleges were not designed for everyone. It is for the exceptional students but our PC culture is going out of control.

Anyone with a disability should have acquired skills to overcome or cope with their special situations while in high school. We are not giving them any chances if we take away the accepted standards and give them grades they didn't deserve.

Thomas Edison had dyslexia. He coped with the malfunction and was a brilliant man overcoming his difficulties to perform beyond the norm. That's what we have to do. Give them ways to overcome their difficulties and aspiring for greater heighths than are currently done. We don't do that with watering down curricula.

4 year graduation is....exceptional?

when did it become 'exceptional'?

It's a different issue, but a student who can get a degree in 4 years IS exceptional now. Students have been inching towards an average of 4.5+ to get a Bachelor's for years.

Some Bachelors degrees do still carry a lot of prestige. On the other hand, a 4 year General Studies degree isn't worth much at all.

 

[Unkotare]

Four year colleges were not designed for everyone. It is for the exceptional students but our PC culture is going out of control.

Anyone with a disability should have acquired skills to overcome or cope with their special situations while in high school. We are not giving them any chances if we take away the accepted standards and give them grades they didn't deserve.

Thomas Edison had dyslexia. He coped with the malfunction and was a brilliant man overcoming his difficulties to perform beyond the norm. That's what we have to do. Give them ways to overcome their difficulties and aspiring for greater heighths than are currently done. We don't do that with watering down curricula.

4 year graduation is....exceptional?

when did it become 'exceptional'?

It's a different issue, but a student who can get a degree in 4 years IS exceptional now. Students have been inching towards an average of 4.5+ to get a Bachelor's for years..

Got a link to some stats backing this up?

 

[Dr.Traveler]

4 year graduation is....exceptional?

when did it become 'exceptional'?

It's a different issue, but a student who can get a degree in 4 years IS exceptional now. Students have been inching towards an average of 4.5+ to get a Bachelor's for years..

Got a link to some stats backing this up?

The Rise of the Five Year Four Year Degree

In my state, the Board of Regents actually mandated that barring requirements by outside accreditation boards all 4 years degrees have to be 120 hours. Prior to that mandate, it wasn't uncommon for a 4 year degree to be at 125+ hours in various fields. Our Mathematics degree was at 130 IIRC.

To keep that in perspective, full time status is typically about 12 hours. Freshmen advisers are encouraged to only advise first time freshman to take 12 hours so they can "adapt". When your degree plan is at 120+ hours, that means to get done in 4 years you need to earn 15+ credits a semester or take Summer, Wintersession, etc courses.

We still have a lot of Math Majors that graduate in 4 years, but we've also seen some that are hanging around into year 5 or even year 6.

 

[squeeze berry]

What I'm reading in this thread seems to sum up what has happened to the state of public education in this country. It's no wonder we have fallen in ranking significantly over the past 50 years.

Bingo.

People complain about education in America and how we have fallen behind and ranked 30-something and something must be done. Some people throw around the phrase "education reform," but really, what does that mean? They don't know, it just sounds good. Another "answer" is to throw a bunch of money at the problem.

The reality is that this country has kids in school with more brains in an average exhalation than the average DC politician. Lots of smart kids are wait-listed or denied all together from all universities. Med schools, as well as law and engineering schools have more than enough qualified applicants. So what is the problem?

The question is actually plural but part of the reason for the decline in the USA education ranking is what this thread addresses. We have HS students with IEPs mixed with other students. This slows the progress of the group and sometimes causes the teacher to dilute the material. We have HS students that can hardly read and/or write English. A lot of the parents that demanded that the grading scale be changed to a 10 point scale in one of my previous posts were from ESOL kids. My principal has required that if a class has only one 9th or 10th grader, the teacher must teach and test with Middle Years IB Program (MYIBP) methods, regardless of whether or not any of the students are enrolled in the MYIBP. Why?, you ask! So that all students can be exposed to advanced teaching and testing methods. That of course sounds good on its face, but the problem comes from diluting the process with a group of students that are primarily main stream students.

Those are just a few things that have lowered the American education rankings. There are remedies that does not have to approach seperate but equal or Brown vs. BOE and whatnot. Students should be grouped according to their abilities. I firmly believe that certain kids should not have to go to school beyond the 10th grade. Their education plan should include some sort of trade combined with life and business skills. Do you know how much a plumber makes? We have really smart kids that graduate high school that cannot write a resume or balance a check book. Not every kid needs to go to college. We need to take a hard look at standardized testing and administrative burdens that are put in place in the name of improving education. Every year one or two new requirements pop up that does nothing to educate kids but it placates the board and the parents and keeps people busy until June. The only thing I will say about teachers is that my colleagues are some of the hardest working and caring people that I have had the honor of being associated with, and that includes 26 years in Navy medicine.

I have ranted enough. I have 30 of my 175 students arriving soon. We are on a two hour early release today. woop... woop

that's a great post ^

most students are not college materail yet many parents are in denial. Trade school instead of academic classes should be an option, nay THE option for most students.



FAPE does not extend beyond K-12

 

[Si modo]

Yup, they have been doing this for years.

It is a disservice to those who have those special needs. I give an exam an I have to allow them twice or three times the rest of the students have. And, when these special needs students graduate, and when they don't meet a deadline at work?

 

[squeeze berry]

Yup, they have been doing this for years.

It is a disservice to those who have those special needs. I give an exam an I have to allow them twice or three times the rest of the students have. And, when these special needs students graduate, and when they don't meet a deadline at work?

I teach sped in the adjacent division to your west

 

[Si modo]

Yup, they have been doing this for years.

It is a disservice to those who have those special needs. I give an exam an I have to allow them twice or three times the rest of the students have. And, when these special needs students graduate, and when they don't meet a deadline at work?

I teach sped in the adjacent division to your west

Pardon me? Huh?

 

[squeeze berry]

Yup, they have been doing this for years.

It is a disservice to those who have those special needs. I give an exam an I have to allow them twice or three times the rest of the students have. And, when these special needs students graduate, and when they don't meet a deadline at work?

I teach sped in the adjacent division to your west

Pardon me? Huh?

you are in Fairfax county, right?

 

[Si modo]

I teach sped in the adjacent division to your west

Pardon me? Huh?

you are in Fairfax county, right?

Yes, I am.

I'm sorry, I still don't understand your post. (I was talking about when I was a prof at a Maryland university)

 

[chanel]

The most challenging part of the SAT math section is finishing within the allotted time. Any student with an IEP - regardless of their type of disability - is allotted extended time.

In the real world, many jobs are billed by the hour. Do people agree that they may have to pay twice as much because some folks are just "slower" than others?
It is BS.

 

[old navy]

that's a great post ^

Thank you