Small Town America lacking lawyers

[longknife]

This should not surprise anyone. Most get a law degree to get big salaries and eventually end up in big companies with tons of perks.


Who wants to work in Podunk for peanuts, maybe even having to take a second job just to get by?

While cities are trying to reform their criminal-justice systems, smaller, more far-flung locales are struggling to provide basic services.

Some of this can be attributed to the use of jails as a moneymaker for rural places with few other industries. Government agencies, such as the U.S. Department of Agriculture, provide money for counties to build jails as a form of economic stimulus. Counties, in turn, build bigger jails. The space is used in part to house state or federal inmates in exchange for “rent.” Vera and other organizations have pointed out that jail construction isn’t a fail-safe path to economic development, especially because if jails close due to unconstitutionally poor conditions, the county is left footing the bill, which can bankrupt local governments.

But many of these rural jails house a large number of local defendants who are awaiting trial, as Keene was. According to Vera, while urban pretrial populations began to level off and then decline in the early 2000s, those populations kept growing in rural counties, eventually eclipsing urban ones. In 2013, rural counties had 265 pretrial detainees per 100,000 people, almost one-third higher than the urban rate.

Much more @ The Shocking Lack of Lawyers in Rural America

 

[miketx]

I live in a small town and the longer I do, the more I find myself going outside of the town for things I need. Services are poor, people are clannish and narrow-minded. Most of the 30 something crowd are media-fed parrot morons. We would never even consider hiring a lawyer from here.

 

[toobfreak]

This should not surprise anyone. Most get a law degree to get big salaries and eventually end up in big companies with tons of perks.


Who wants to work in Podunk for peanuts, maybe even having to take a second job just to get by?

While cities are trying to reform their criminal-justice systems, smaller, more far-flung locales are struggling to provide basic services.

Some of this can be attributed to the use of jails as a moneymaker for rural places with few other industries. Government agencies, such as the U.S. Department of Agriculture, provide money for counties to build jails as a form of economic stimulus. Counties, in turn, build bigger jails. The space is used in part to house state or federal inmates in exchange for “rent.” Vera and other organizations have pointed out that jail construction isn’t a fail-safe path to economic development, especially because if jails close due to unconstitutionally poor conditions, the county is left footing the bill, which can bankrupt local governments.

But many of these rural jails house a large number of local defendants who are awaiting trial, as Keene was. According to Vera, while urban pretrial populations began to level off and then decline in the early 2000s, those populations kept growing in rural counties, eventually eclipsing urban ones. In 2013, rural counties had 265 pretrial detainees per 100,000 people, almost one-third higher than the urban rate.

Much more @ The Shocking Lack of Lawyers in Rural America

Frankly, I think small town America has the right idea. the problem isn't their lack of lawyers, it is all the lawyers in big cities. Lawyers are a scourge. Politicians are mostly all lawyers. Lawyers are at the heart of almost every problem we have. The law should be written simple enough that you don't need a blood sucking lawyer to take 40% to understand it. Courts ought to be based on common sense and morality, not legal trickery, obscurity and complex procedures. We should kill all the lawyers, simplify the law and be glad we are free of them all.

 

[miketx]

This should not surprise anyone. Most get a law degree to get big salaries and eventually end up in big companies with tons of perks.


Who wants to work in Podunk for peanuts, maybe even having to take a second job just to get by?

While cities are trying to reform their criminal-justice systems, smaller, more far-flung locales are struggling to provide basic services.

Some of this can be attributed to the use of jails as a moneymaker for rural places with few other industries. Government agencies, such as the U.S. Department of Agriculture, provide money for counties to build jails as a form of economic stimulus. Counties, in turn, build bigger jails. The space is used in part to house state or federal inmates in exchange for “rent.” Vera and other organizations have pointed out that jail construction isn’t a fail-safe path to economic development, especially because if jails close due to unconstitutionally poor conditions, the county is left footing the bill, which can bankrupt local governments.

But many of these rural jails house a large number of local defendants who are awaiting trial, as Keene was. According to Vera, while urban pretrial populations began to level off and then decline in the early 2000s, those populations kept growing in rural counties, eventually eclipsing urban ones. In 2013, rural counties had 265 pretrial detainees per 100,000 people, almost one-third higher than the urban rate.

Much more @ The Shocking Lack of Lawyers in Rural America

Frankly, I think small town America has the right idea. the problem isn't their lack of lawyers, it is all the lawyers in big cities. Lawyers are a scourge. Politicians are mostly all lawyers. Lawyers are at the heart of almost every problem we have. The law should be written simple enough that you don't need a blood sucking lawyer to take 40% to understand it. Courts ought to be based on common sense and morality, not legal trickery, obscurity and complex procedures. We should kill all the lawyers, simplify the law and be glad we are free of them all.

The lawyer we hired turned nothing into 50,000 dollars, and cost the pos we sued twice that.

 

[toobfreak]

This should not surprise anyone. Most get a law degree to get big salaries and eventually end up in big companies with tons of perks.


Who wants to work in Podunk for peanuts, maybe even having to take a second job just to get by?

While cities are trying to reform their criminal-justice systems, smaller, more far-flung locales are struggling to provide basic services.

Some of this can be attributed to the use of jails as a moneymaker for rural places with few other industries. Government agencies, such as the U.S. Department of Agriculture, provide money for counties to build jails as a form of economic stimulus. Counties, in turn, build bigger jails. The space is used in part to house state or federal inmates in exchange for “rent.” Vera and other organizations have pointed out that jail construction isn’t a fail-safe path to economic development, especially because if jails close due to unconstitutionally poor conditions, the county is left footing the bill, which can bankrupt local governments.

But many of these rural jails house a large number of local defendants who are awaiting trial, as Keene was. According to Vera, while urban pretrial populations began to level off and then decline in the early 2000s, those populations kept growing in rural counties, eventually eclipsing urban ones. In 2013, rural counties had 265 pretrial detainees per 100,000 people, almost one-third higher than the urban rate.

Much more @ The Shocking Lack of Lawyers in Rural America

Frankly, I think small town America has the right idea. the problem isn't their lack of lawyers, it is all the lawyers in big cities. Lawyers are a scourge. Politicians are mostly all lawyers. Lawyers are at the heart of almost every problem we have. The law should be written simple enough that you don't need a blood sucking lawyer to take 40% to understand it. Courts ought to be based on common sense and morality, not legal trickery, obscurity and complex procedures. We should kill all the lawyers, simplify the law and be glad we are free of them all.

The lawyer we hired turned nothing into 50,000 dollars, and cost the pos we sued twice that.

So, yeah, he took half your money.

 

[miketx]

This should not surprise anyone. Most get a law degree to get big salaries and eventually end up in big companies with tons of perks.


Who wants to work in Podunk for peanuts, maybe even having to take a second job just to get by?

While cities are trying to reform their criminal-justice systems, smaller, more far-flung locales are struggling to provide basic services.

Some of this can be attributed to the use of jails as a moneymaker for rural places with few other industries. Government agencies, such as the U.S. Department of Agriculture, provide money for counties to build jails as a form of economic stimulus. Counties, in turn, build bigger jails. The space is used in part to house state or federal inmates in exchange for “rent.” Vera and other organizations have pointed out that jail construction isn’t a fail-safe path to economic development, especially because if jails close due to unconstitutionally poor conditions, the county is left footing the bill, which can bankrupt local governments.

But many of these rural jails house a large number of local defendants who are awaiting trial, as Keene was. According to Vera, while urban pretrial populations began to level off and then decline in the early 2000s, those populations kept growing in rural counties, eventually eclipsing urban ones. In 2013, rural counties had 265 pretrial detainees per 100,000 people, almost one-third higher than the urban rate.

Much more @ The Shocking Lack of Lawyers in Rural America

Frankly, I think small town America has the right idea. the problem isn't their lack of lawyers, it is all the lawyers in big cities. Lawyers are a scourge. Politicians are mostly all lawyers. Lawyers are at the heart of almost every problem we have. The law should be written simple enough that you don't need a blood sucking lawyer to take 40% to understand it. Courts ought to be based on common sense and morality, not legal trickery, obscurity and complex procedures. We should kill all the lawyers, simplify the law and be glad we are free of them all.

The lawyer we hired turned nothing into 50,000 dollars, and cost the pos we sued twice that.

So, yeah, he took half your money.

She did? No, you are wrong and have no idea what happened in our private lives. But even if you were correct, which you are not, half of 100,000 dollars tasted a lot better than the 0.0 offered.

 

[SavannahMann]

This should not surprise anyone. Most get a law degree to get big salaries and eventually end up in big companies with tons of perks.


Who wants to work in Podunk for peanuts, maybe even having to take a second job just to get by?

While cities are trying to reform their criminal-justice systems, smaller, more far-flung locales are struggling to provide basic services.

Some of this can be attributed to the use of jails as a moneymaker for rural places with few other industries. Government agencies, such as the U.S. Department of Agriculture, provide money for counties to build jails as a form of economic stimulus. Counties, in turn, build bigger jails. The space is used in part to house state or federal inmates in exchange for “rent.” Vera and other organizations have pointed out that jail construction isn’t a fail-safe path to economic development, especially because if jails close due to unconstitutionally poor conditions, the county is left footing the bill, which can bankrupt local governments.

But many of these rural jails house a large number of local defendants who are awaiting trial, as Keene was. According to Vera, while urban pretrial populations began to level off and then decline in the early 2000s, those populations kept growing in rural counties, eventually eclipsing urban ones. In 2013, rural counties had 265 pretrial detainees per 100,000 people, almost one-third higher than the urban rate.

Much more @ The Shocking Lack of Lawyers in Rural America

Frankly, I think small town America has the right idea. the problem isn't their lack of lawyers, it is all the lawyers in big cities. Lawyers are a scourge. Politicians are mostly all lawyers. Lawyers are at the heart of almost every problem we have. The law should be written simple enough that you don't need a blood sucking lawyer to take 40% to understand it. Courts ought to be based on common sense and morality, not legal trickery, obscurity and complex procedures. We should kill all the lawyers, simplify the law and be glad we are free of them all.

Police, Prosecutors, and witnesses lie. The job of the lawyer is to find the truth. Spend a day in traffic court. Or one of those small town municipal courts. Watch what happens. The cop says the guy ran a stop sign. The guy and two witnesses says he didn’t. The judge finds him guilty. In cases with a lawyer it ends up being either not guilty, or reduced charge. The lies are exposed.

Those stupid technicalities you decry are drawn from our Constitution. Cops give a ticket to someone who has Fuck Trump written on the back of his truck. The lawyer argues that this is protected by the First Amendment. Without the lawyer, we would be left with the definitions of those in power.

The Constitution is supposed to limit those in power. It was written in the plain and simple English you say that it should be written in, yet that plain and simple English is detested by most everyone. People on the Left hate the Second Amendment, while People on the Right eschew the 4th, 5th, and 6th Amendments. All written in plain and simple English I might add.

People on the Right hate it when those technicalities that prohibit cops from searching anything they want are actually enforced. The Guilty should go to jail period.

But that is what we revolted against. The British conducting searches for things that were prohibited without warrants.

If you want to know what helped spur the Revolution filmed in modern times. Think Boston Marathon Bombing. The police searching house to house for the baddies, holding the residents at gunpoint while searching. No permission requested, and no warrants. That was the British in 1775, searching for Traitors to the Crown. What we would call Terrorists today.

Lawyers found the lies of the FBI during the Bundy Ranch standoff. Lawyers exposed those lies, and got the charges Dismissed. Lawyers working for the Government, and sworn to uphold the Constitution lied to get FISA warrants on the Trump Campaign. Other lawyers exposed those lies. Those plain and simple laws, get trampled on by people much like you. People convinced that they know what is best, and whatever it takes to get the guilty guy off the street, is right. The ends never justify the means, that is the entire point of the Bill of Rights. Those means shall never be used.

When we have cops and prosecutors who are trustworthy, even then I would argue that Lawyers are vital. Because those lawyers are the ones who argue that the Founders intended that our 2nd Amendment Rights would be individual, not collective.

If we get rid of the lawyers, we’re left with the whim of the cop about what the law is, and they lie constantly. In at least half of the cases where people are charged with any number of crimes, the cops are lying about something. Getting rid of the lawyers, means putting our faith in the cops. And I will never do that.

 

[toobfreak]

Police, Prosecutors, and witnesses lie. The job of the lawyer is to find the truth.

Stop right there. I see you are suffering under a serious delusion about the legal system. You think lawyers don't lie? As someone who held a secondary career for a number of years as an expert witness in the forensic field testifying in many court cases, let me give you the strait poop:

• THE JOB OF AN ATTORNEY is to represent for either the prosecution or the defense, WHATEVER THE TRUTH IS. Their objective is to first determine if they have a case with sufficient grounds to have a good chance of prevailing, then to go into court and present the best argument for that position.
• As such, court cases, judges and attorneys do not operate on the truth, they operate first and foremost within the structure of the law and legal system, and cases are won not so much on findings of the truth/facts (ala Perry Mason), but on WHO MAKES THE MOST COGENT AND COMPELLING ARGUMENT for their position.

In other words, who is best at laying down the BS. Think of it as a game of chess. It isn't the person with the most powerful pieces (Queen, Rooks, Bishops) who wins, but who is best at making the better moves with the pieces they have.

 

[SavannahMann]

Police, Prosecutors, and witnesses lie. The job of the lawyer is to find the truth.

Stop right there. I see you are suffering under a serious delusion about the legal system. You think lawyers don't lie? As someone who held a secondary career for a number of years as an expert witness in the forensic field testifying in many court cases, let me give you the strait poop:

• THE JOB OF AN ATTORNEY is to represent for either the prosecution or the defense, WHATEVER THE TRUTH IS. Their objective is to first determine if they have a case with sufficient grounds to have a good chance of prevailing, then to go into court and present the best argument for that position.
• As such, court cases, judges and attorneys do not operate on the truth, they operate first and foremost within the structure of the law and legal system, and cases are won not so much on findings of the truth/facts (ala Perry Mason), but on WHO MAKES THE MOST COGENT AND COMPELLING ARGUMENT for their position.

In other words, who is best at laying down the BS. Think of it as a game of chess. It isn't the person with the most powerful pieces (Queen, Rooks, Bishops) who wins, but who is best at making the better moves with the pieces they have.

And without a lawyer on your side. The BS of the prosecution will prevail. Remove the lawyer and the BS of the cops would prevail.

 

[Dekster]

I would disagree that most end up in big companies with big perks. You cannot throw a rock and not hit someone in DC with a law degree, many of them not practicing or admitted to the bar. I know someone who quit being a rural lawyer and went back to school to become a RN because there wasn't any really way to make a living there. Judge is part time, prosecutor is part time, etc. Said sometimes in you might only have 3 lawyers and the guy you are arguing against in one case might have to be the judge in another and the judge from the first case is the opposing lawyer in the next.

 

[toobfreak]

Police, Prosecutors, and witnesses lie. The job of the lawyer is to find the truth.

Stop right there. I see you are suffering under a serious delusion about the legal system. You think lawyers don't lie? As someone who held a secondary career for a number of years as an expert witness in the forensic field testifying in many court cases, let me give you the strait poop:

• THE JOB OF AN ATTORNEY is to represent for either the prosecution or the defense, WHATEVER THE TRUTH IS. Their objective is to first determine if they have a case with sufficient grounds to have a good chance of prevailing, then to go into court and present the best argument for that position.
• As such, court cases, judges and attorneys do not operate on the truth, they operate first and foremost within the structure of the law and legal system, and cases are won not so much on findings of the truth/facts (ala Perry Mason), but on WHO MAKES THE MOST COGENT AND COMPELLING ARGUMENT for their position.

In other words, who is best at laying down the BS. Think of it as a game of chess. It isn't the person with the most powerful pieces (Queen, Rooks, Bishops) who wins, but who is best at making the better moves with the pieces they have.

And without a lawyer on your side. The BS of the prosecution will prevail. Remove the lawyer and the BS of the cops would prevail.

You STILL miss the point. Without lawyers, you no longer HAVE a prosecution. Nor a defense. Only a courtroom charged with seeking the facts. And by making the law simple that the average person can understand and apply it themselves, you remove the corruption and motivation for having an intermediate third party in there driven mainly to make a lot of money out of effecting the legal process. Haven't you ever wondered why it should cost you a lot of money just to seek justice within the law? And that the more money you have the more "justice" you can buy? If the law is an absolute and all people equal under the law then so should be the application of justice. Since Justice is a function of government and judges are paid for by the government then so should the cost of effecting Justice to the individual.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Most small town Bars I have been in are well stocked with Lawyers...

 

[SavannahMann]

Police, Prosecutors, and witnesses lie. The job of the lawyer is to find the truth.

Stop right there. I see you are suffering under a serious delusion about the legal system. You think lawyers don't lie? As someone who held a secondary career for a number of years as an expert witness in the forensic field testifying in many court cases, let me give you the strait poop:

• THE JOB OF AN ATTORNEY is to represent for either the prosecution or the defense, WHATEVER THE TRUTH IS. Their objective is to first determine if they have a case with sufficient grounds to have a good chance of prevailing, then to go into court and present the best argument for that position.
• As such, court cases, judges and attorneys do not operate on the truth, they operate first and foremost within the structure of the law and legal system, and cases are won not so much on findings of the truth/facts (ala Perry Mason), but on WHO MAKES THE MOST COGENT AND COMPELLING ARGUMENT for their position.

In other words, who is best at laying down the BS. Think of it as a game of chess. It isn't the person with the most powerful pieces (Queen, Rooks, Bishops) who wins, but who is best at making the better moves with the pieces they have.

And without a lawyer on your side. The BS of the prosecution will prevail. Remove the lawyer and the BS of the cops would prevail.

You STILL miss the point. Without lawyers, you no longer HAVE a prosecution. Nor a defense. Only a courtroom charged with seeking the facts. And by making the law simple that the average person can understand and apply it themselves, you remove the corruption and motivation for having an intermediate third party in there driven mainly to make a lot of money out of effecting the legal process. Haven't you ever wondered why it should cost you a lot of money just to seek justice within the law? And that the more money you have the more "justice" you can buy? If the law is an absolute and all people equal under the law then so should be the application of justice. Since Justice is a function of government and judges are paid for by the government then so should the cost of effecting Justice to the individual.

And I repeat. We already have that. Municipal courts. The cop stands up and says the defendant ran a stop sign. The defendant with two witnesses says he did not. The Judge finds the Defendant Guilty. A lawyer is there. Then the cop’s story falls apart. Or the charges are dismissed even before the cop “testilies”.

No prosecution in sight. No DA. Just the cop. And those who show up without a lawyer who think the truth will set them free. True story. One case was dismissed because the cop read the wrong Miranda card to a juvenile. Without the lawyer to point that out, the kid would have been convicted. Disorderly Conduct? Guilty. Unless the defendant has a lawyer. Then the cop is questioned and the Judge rules for the defense. Time and again I have watched this happen.

They don’t care about truth. The cops certainly do not. Cops would beat confessions out of people until Lawyers made them stop. Cops lie to people every day, and lie to the courts every day, and only the lawyers expose it. Unless you can get your local news channel interested, you are like the victim of Frank Kafka. You are guilty, we will tell you what you did later.