Simple Question: Did we (USA) win Iraq War?

Discussion in 'Iraq' started by CrusaderFrank, Oct 6, 2009.

?

Did We Win the Iraq War

  1. Yes

    32 vote(s)
    46.4%
  2. No

    37 vote(s)
    53.6%
  1. germanguy
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    germanguy VIP Member

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    To be correct, the FRG is only since 1990 a fully sovereign state.
    The former Victor-States had a lot of rights reserved under the occupation regulation.
    Good example was West-Berlin, which was legally no part of West-Germany, but under Allied control.

    Also, the big bad Red Army was next door and most NATO countries found it far better to defend their freedom on German soil than on their own.

    So, not only the US had a sizeable force here, but also the French, the Brits, the Canadians and the Belgians.
    In East Germany it surely were 300.000 Soviet Troops, so in case of WW III. even the conventional war would have flattened Germany.

    And that´s why there are still GIs here (the others already left).

    regards
    ze germanguy
     
  2. The Rabbi
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    The Rabbi Diamond Member

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    Who was the mayor of West Berlin in 1980?
     
  3. Munin
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    Munin VIP Member

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    And the fact that North and South Korea are still technically at war.

     
  4. ColonelB
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    ColonelB Rookie

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    ummm...

    "Crusader" Frank...

    You misquote the goals. Here are the actual 8 goals identified as pillars of US government policy for victory in Iraq (see State Dept Iraq benchmarks)
    1. Defeat the Terrorists and Neutralize the Insurgents
    2. Transition Iraq to Security Self-Reliance
    3. Help Iraqis to Forge a National Compact for Democratic Government
    4. Help Iraq Build Government Capacity and Provide Essential Services
    5. Help Iraq Strengthen Its Economy
    6. Help Iraq Strengthen the Rule of Law and Promote Civil Rights
    7. Increase International Support for Iraq
    8. Strengthen Public Understanding of Coalition Efforts and Public Isolation of the Insurgents

    Your strawman goals of "overrun Baghdad," "capture Sadam," etc. weren't ever on the list.

    As to whether we have accomplished the ACTUAL GOALS:
    1. We certainly haven't defeated the terrorists and neutralized the insurgents. Example: Dec 8 explosions killed 127 people in Baghdad alone. While the overall number of attacks is vastly better than it was during the course of the Bush war, it remains at a level that U.S. citizens can’t really comprehend. We change our whole transportation economy when 1 guy sets fire to his shoes (or his pants). Try to imagine living in a country where 150 bombing deaths PER MONTH was considered good news!
    2. Iraq has not transitioned to security self-reliance. Ex: currently over 110,000 U.S. troops in Iraq PLUS at least that many contractors. There are less than 50K Iraqi security forces trained to self-reliance levels (ORA LEVEL 1: capable of planning, executing, and sustaining counterinsurgency operations).
    3. There is some progress in the national government goal, although recent stories of rampant corruption and the Kurdish problem still threaten a stable solution. Iraq ranks 176 of 180 in a measure of governmental corruption (see Iraq Index - Saban Center for Middle East Policy - - Brookings Institution)
    4. Electricity total output is improved from pre-war levels and continues to improve, although it currently is still only 16 hours per day average.
    5. Oil production pre-war was approximately 2.5M BPD. Today it is 2.45M BPD. While Iraq’s economy is slowly improving, the U.S. has spent over $650 BILLION on Iraq. That works out to over $22,000 for every single man, woman, and child in Iraq, a country with a pre-war per-capita income of less than $4000.
    6. The rule of terrorism on the part of Sadam has been replaced by terrorists and the rule of graft. I guess you might consider that better.
    7. The Iraq “coalition” (and I use that term very liberally) has essentially disappeared. The U.S. now bears essentially 100% of all non-Iraqi security responsibility.
    8. This last goal is VERY nebulous. I think the U.S. public has come to understand that the Iraq war was the largest waste of U.S. resources ever committed. So in that sense, maybe this pillar has been established.
    And all at the cost of only 4,300+ U.S. deaths, a couple of hundred thousand Iraqi deaths, and many many maimed. Yeah, George Bush and the republican cabal sure accomplished a lot.
     
  5. CrusaderFrank
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    CrusaderFrank Diamond Member

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    Oops
     

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