Should we bring back the draft?

[Douger]

Grow up....fucking Nazi's
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeU-vLSozKQ]IBM THINK | Laura Chinchilla Speaks with Errol Morris on Reallocation of Resources - YouTube[/ame]

 

[007]

Yes, two years mandatory service, and reinstate DADT.

 

[High_Gravity]

Yes.

Not only should we but we should end the student exemption so all people between 18 and 45 are eligible to be drafted.

It's the only way to make people care about war. As it stands the government and it's corrupt politicians can feel justified in fighting undeclared wars and wasting the lives of our brave soldiers on political games of brinksmanship. After all soldiers are volunteers so it's easy to rationalize and weigh the costs of their lives against political gains.

If the draft was reinstated and 100% inclusive of men and women our so called leaders would be a little less likely to send young men and women to their deaths in undeclared wars against countries that pose no threat to our national security because we would all be in the line of fire.

It's the only way to make our out of control government more accountable

Bring it back and stipulate that all eligible children of Congressmen and Senator's are the first to go.

Those congressman and senators will send their children overseas to avoid the draft, those cats know all the tricks to avoid it.

 

[Intense]

Yes.

Not only should we but we should end the student exemption so all people between 18 and 45 are eligible to be drafted.

It's the only way to make people care about war. As it stands the government and it's corrupt politicians can feel justified in fighting undeclared wars and wasting the lives of our brave soldiers on political games of brinksmanship. After all soldiers are volunteers so it's easy to rationalize and weigh the costs of their lives against political gains.

If the draft was reinstated and 100% inclusive of men and women our so called leaders would be a little less likely to send young men and women to their deaths in undeclared wars against countries that pose no threat to our national security because we would all be in the line of fire.

It's the only way to make our out of control government more accountable

No. Try raising Pay and Benefits if there is an enlistment problem. Restrict Presidential Authority if there is an abuse of Power, regarding what we get involved in. At some point, real wars should be declared, officially.

 

[dadsgm]

YES, BRING BACK THE DRAFT. nO EXEMPTIONS, NO COMMUNITY SERVICE, NO GOVERNMENT SERVICE OTHER THAN IN A MILITARY SERVICE. Basic term of service is 3 years active and 3 years National guard. All NG meetings and trainging sessions must be met with the exception of a command absence for dire circumstances.

 

[The Gadfly]

There are no guarantees when you enlist
You of all people should know this.

Actually, you can have an AFSC slot guaranteed when you enlist, unless you wash out.

But what's guaranteed when you enlist, ins't the matter.

The point is to make so those in charge of sending us to fight are damned sure it's worth it when they do.

Well, that's a nice thought, but it is not going to happen, not even with a universal draft. The Congressmens' kids will be stashed in nice, safe billets stateside, or far in the rear with the gear, out of danger's way, while some other poor bastard walks point in the boonies. It has been that way since Vietnam, and it always will be. There's no more WWII, no more grand crusades, Just "limited war" (which translates as "we don't know exactly what the hell we are trying to accomplish, but we'll figure it out as we go") ; and when each dirty, nasty little war is over, if the public doesn't like it, the politicians who planned and mismanaged the whole thing will just throw the troops who fought it to the howling mob, or toss them on the scrap heap, draftee and professional alike. If the public does like it, the politicians will gladly take the credit, give the troops a parade and a bunch of empty promises, and then throw them on the scrap heap, draftee and professional alike. Shit rolls downhill; get used to it; it's the new cleaner, nicer, sanitized way for America to make war. You throw conscripts in the mix, and all you have really done, is give the leadership challenged and morally deficient in the professional ranks objects to take out their frustrations on. I saw too much of that in Vietnam, and I did not like it.

 

[ginscpy]

yes

 

[High_Gravity]

yes

Yes you say? but of course you are too old to be drafted? I hate dick heads who call for the draft but never served and know they are too old to be drafted themselves, fuck you and choke on a dick ginscpy.

 

[Si modo]

No. No draft.

I'm suspecting the current voluntary troops would rather work beside those who actually WANT to be there, too.

 

[namvet]

yeah right

 

[old navy]

The purpose of a military draft is to meet a targeted end strength. The unemployment rate is 25 percent plus in the prime draftee age group.

There are people lined up down the street and around the corner trying to get in both officer and enlisted programs. The military is about to start a draw-down program like Clinton did in the 90s. There is no need for a draft.

 

[BrianH]

Yes.

Not only should we but we should end the student exemption so all people between 18 and 45 are eligible to be drafted.

It's the only way to make people care about war. As it stands the government and it's corrupt politicians can feel justified in fighting undeclared wars and wasting the lives of our brave soldiers on political games of brinksmanship. After all soldiers are volunteers so it's easy to rationalize and weigh the costs of their lives against political gains.

If the draft was reinstated and 100% inclusive of men and women our so called leaders would be a little less likely to send young men and women to their deaths in undeclared wars against countries that pose no threat to our national security because we would all be in the line of fire.

It's the only way to make our out of control government more accountable

This made me think about something. If a soldier takes an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution and is given an unconstitutional order (Or perhapse and unconstitutional order based on an unconstitutional resolution thta was passed), is it not his obligation to refuse the order? I often wonder why the military, as a whole, puts up with this. It seems that they revere the President being the Commander- in- Chief (In the oath) more than the first thing in their oath. (or maybe they don't think about it.) It just seems to me that the military as an entire force should refuse going to an unconstitutional war when it is obviously not declared. Then this gets you into the realm of the War Powers Resolution..(Which I believe is an unconstitutional resolution.)

 

[BrianH]

Yes.

Not only should we but we should end the student exemption so all people between 18 and 45 are eligible to be drafted.

It's the only way to make people care about war. As it stands the government and it's corrupt politicians can feel justified in fighting undeclared wars and wasting the lives of our brave soldiers on political games of brinksmanship. After all soldiers are volunteers so it's easy to rationalize and weigh the costs of their lives against political gains.

If the draft was reinstated and 100% inclusive of men and women our so called leaders would be a little less likely to send young men and women to their deaths in undeclared wars against countries that pose no threat to our national security because we would all be in the line of fire.

It's the only way to make our out of control government more accountable

No. Try raising Pay and Benefits if there is an enlistment problem. Restrict Presidential Authority if there is an abuse of Power, regarding what we get involved in. At some point, real wars should be declared, officially.

To the first part of your sentence, it's hard to do when the government has run it's debt through the ceiling. I do agree with the last part of your statement!

 

[BrianH]

Is there a war going on?

~S~

2 for the past 10 years and I'll guarantee there's at least one more on the horizon in the next 5.

I agree. I think the mission would be to actually campaign and get the message across to soldiers (preferebly by veterans) that it is their Constitutional obligation to protect his country from foreign and domestic enemies. And that when you have leaders in power who are violating the Constitution and violating it in ways that send them to die, they need to stand up and say something about it. Of course this is coming from someone who has never served.

 

[namvet]

we're broke. flat fuckin broke. we can't afford the military we have now. its a pipe dream LMFAO !!!

 

[midcan5]

Yes, and for the conscientious objectors, service to the nation in some other way.

 

[namvet]

Yes, and for the conscientious objectors, service to the nation in some other way.

open that door and you don't need the draft

 

[usmcstinger]

The problem with a draft is that it is more difficult for a president to invade nations without good cause. At least that should have been the lesson we learned from Vietnam. With a volunteer army the president has much greater latitude to create small presidential type wars.

Iraq and Afghanistan are small presidential type wars? You are a complete idiot. Your thoughts are delusional.

Why is it that all the experts on war have never set foot on a field of battle?

One important lesson that you are clueless about was this nations failure to separate the warrior from the Vietnam from the War.

This has not happened again. Those of us who fought in Vietnam have not permitted it to.

C 1/4 USMC Vietnam 67-68 Infantry Fire Team Leader.

 

[High_Gravity]

The problem with a draft is that it is more difficult for a president to invade nations without good cause. At least that should have been the lesson we learned from Vietnam. With a volunteer army the president has much greater latitude to create small presidential type wars.

Iraq and Afghanistan are small presidential type wars? You are a complete idiot. Your thoughts are delusional.

Why is it that all the experts on war have never set foot on a field of battle?

One important lesson that you are clueless about was this nations failure to separate the warrior from the Vietnam from the War.

This has not happened again. Those of us who fought in Vietnam have not permitted it to.

C 1/4 USMC Vietnam 67-68 Infantry Fire Team Leader.

The scary thing is, it IS people with no Military experience whatsoever who have the authority to send our men and women into battle and plan combat OPS, scary shit.

 

[pinqy]

This made me think about something. If a soldier takes an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution and is given an unconstitutional order (Or perhapse and unconstitutional order based on an unconstitutional resolution thta was passed), is it not his obligation to refuse the order?

It is service member's duty to refuse an unlawful order. However, all orders are presumed lawful, and anyone who refuses an order has to show it was unlawful. But it is NOT the individual's right to interpret the Constitution or the law to determine whether an order is unlawful.

Then this gets you into the realm of the War Powers Resolution..(Which I believe is an unconstitutional resolution.)

That you believe something to be unconstitutional does not make it so, nor would it give you the right to disobey. The courts have long ago ruled that accepting an individual interpretation of lawfulness like that would lead to chaos.

Examples: The laws and regulations are clear that executing an unarmed civilian is bad. Any order to do so should be disobeyed.

The Constitution does not mention an Air Force. But if an Army soldier refused to obey an (otherwise lawful) order from an Air Force Officer on the grounds that the USAF is not a Constitutionally authorized organization....well, it wouldn't be good for the soldier.