Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature currently requires accessing the site using the built-in Safari browser.
Rules are rules, stupid or not. But is Reggie the one who actually broke them?
Rules are rules, stupid or not. But is Reggie the one who actually broke them?
What? you're a Hogville.net poster and don't know this whole story?
The answer is yes, Bush committed all sorts of violations while at USC which led directly to their situation. Although to be fair, if their basketball program hadn't outright hired a kid to play ball the NCAA probably wouldn't have ever investigated.
)Should Bush be stripped of Heisman?
Rules are rules, stupid or not. But is Reggie the one who actually broke them?
What? you're a Hogville.net poster and don't know this whole story?
The answer is yes, Bush committed all sorts of violations while at USC which led directly to their situation. Although to be fair, if their basketball program hadn't outright hired a kid to play ball the NCAA probably wouldn't have ever investigated.
Pffft....it's the season of the great sports wasteland. I'll start posting there regularly again in a couple weeks.
And what did I say about he hoo-rah from the ladies? You got to take sports fans' rants with a grain of salt. Especially when it's about USC.
(BUT you're totally wrong about HDN.
I'm waiting for an explanation of why Bush, himself, is personally responsible and something to back it up. All I've seen on Hogville or anywhere else is allegations, and they don't all match. Which tells me there may or may not be fire under the smoke. If he is personally responsible...then yes, he should be stripped. If he's not, he keeps it. Not that it matters. I doubt the Saints will pay him less without a chunk of metal on the shelf.
I say no.
I think it's ridiculous how much money schools make from sports while the players are essentially slave labor.
So fucking what if his family got paid. He was still the best player and earned the award on the field.
What? you're a Hogville.net poster and don't know this whole story?
The answer is yes, Bush committed all sorts of violations while at USC which led directly to their situation. Although to be fair, if their basketball program hadn't outright hired a kid to play ball the NCAA probably wouldn't have ever investigated.
Pffft....it's the season of the great sports wasteland. I'll start posting there regularly again in a couple weeks.
And what did I say about he hoo-rah from the ladies? You got to take sports fans' rants with a grain of salt. Especially when it's about USC.
(BUT you're totally wrong about HDN.
I'm waiting for an explanation of why Bush, himself, is personally responsible and something to back it up. All I've seen on Hogville or anywhere else is allegations, and they don't all match. Which tells me there may or may not be fire under the smoke. If he is personally responsible...then yes, he should be stripped. If he's not, he keeps it. Not that it matters. I doubt the Saints will pay him less without a chunk of metal on the shelf.
I wasn't aware we had discussed HDN. But that is for another day.
this is a pretty nice summary
Just before the 2006 draft, reports surfaced raising questions about whether Bush's family received gifts in violation of NCAA policies. The school requested that the conference investigate the matter, and Bush denied any impropriety.
In November 2007, fledgling sports agent Lloyd Lake sued Bush and his family for not repaying over $290,000 in gifts. Lake also agreed to cooperate with the NCAA.[6] In April 2009, the Los Angeles Times reported that the NCAA merged its investigations of Bush and former USC basketball player O.J. Mayo into a single probe of the Trojans' athletic program.[7] On December 28, 2009 it was announced that Bush had lost his bid for confidential arbitration in this matter and that the case would proceed to trial.[8]. The case was settled in April 2010.[9]
On June 10, 2010, the NCAA announced major sanctions against USC. The NCAA found that Bush had received lavish gifts from Lake and his partner, Michael Michaels, from at least December 2004 onward, including a limousine ride to the 2005 Heisman Trophy presentation. As a result, USC was slapped with four years of probation and forced to vacate its last two wins of the 2004 season (including the 2005 Orange Bowl) as well as all of its wins in the 2005 season. The Trojans were also banned from bowl games in 2010 and 2011 and will lose 30 scholarships over three years. Running backs coach Todd McNair is banned from off-campus recruiting for one year after the NCAA determined he'd known about Bush's dealings with the agents. The NCAA also forced USC to permanently disassociate itself from Bush.[10][11]
The NCAA found that given Bush's high-profile status, USC should have invested more effort in monitoring Bush's relationships. In announcing the penalties, Paul Dee, chairman of the NCAA infractions committee, said, "High-profile players merit high-profile enforcement."[12]
Since the NCAA ruled that Bush lost his eligibility in December 2004, it is likely that USC will lose the 2004 BCS title. It is also possible that Bush will have to vacate the many awards he won in 2005, including his Heisman Trophy.[10] On July 20, 2010, incoming USC president Max Nikias stated that the school would remove jerseys and murals displayed in Bush's honor from its facilities, and would return the school's copy of Bush's Heisman Trophy.[13]
Reggie Bush - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Pffft....it's the season of the great sports wasteland. I'll start posting there regularly again in a couple weeks.
And what did I say about he hoo-rah from the ladies? You got to take sports fans' rants with a grain of salt. Especially when it's about USC.
(BUT you're totally wrong about HDN.
I'm waiting for an explanation of why Bush, himself, is personally responsible and something to back it up. All I've seen on Hogville or anywhere else is allegations, and they don't all match. Which tells me there may or may not be fire under the smoke. If he is personally responsible...then yes, he should be stripped. If he's not, he keeps it. Not that it matters. I doubt the Saints will pay him less without a chunk of metal on the shelf.
I wasn't aware we had discussed HDN. But that is for another day.
this is a pretty nice summary
Just before the 2006 draft, reports surfaced raising questions about whether Bush's family received gifts in violation of NCAA policies. The school requested that the conference investigate the matter, and Bush denied any impropriety.
In November 2007, fledgling sports agent Lloyd Lake sued Bush and his family for not repaying over $290,000 in gifts. Lake also agreed to cooperate with the NCAA.[6] In April 2009, the Los Angeles Times reported that the NCAA merged its investigations of Bush and former USC basketball player O.J. Mayo into a single probe of the Trojans' athletic program.[7] On December 28, 2009 it was announced that Bush had lost his bid for confidential arbitration in this matter and that the case would proceed to trial.[8]. The case was settled in April 2010.[9]
On June 10, 2010, the NCAA announced major sanctions against USC. The NCAA found that Bush had received lavish gifts from Lake and his partner, Michael Michaels, from at least December 2004 onward, including a limousine ride to the 2005 Heisman Trophy presentation. As a result, USC was slapped with four years of probation and forced to vacate its last two wins of the 2004 season (including the 2005 Orange Bowl) as well as all of its wins in the 2005 season. The Trojans were also banned from bowl games in 2010 and 2011 and will lose 30 scholarships over three years. Running backs coach Todd McNair is banned from off-campus recruiting for one year after the NCAA determined he'd known about Bush's dealings with the agents. The NCAA also forced USC to permanently disassociate itself from Bush.[10][11]
The NCAA found that given Bush's high-profile status, USC should have invested more effort in monitoring Bush's relationships. In announcing the penalties, Paul Dee, chairman of the NCAA infractions committee, said, "High-profile players merit high-profile enforcement."[12]
Since the NCAA ruled that Bush lost his eligibility in December 2004, it is likely that USC will lose the 2004 BCS title. It is also possible that Bush will have to vacate the many awards he won in 2005, including his Heisman Trophy.[10] On July 20, 2010, incoming USC president Max Nikias stated that the school would remove jerseys and murals displayed in Bush's honor from its facilities, and would return the school's copy of Bush's Heisman Trophy.[13]
Reggie Bush - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I know this. But is a dumb starstruck kid responsible for a dumber rookie agent and whoever his backers are, or for what his family decides to accept - which is the vast majority of the allegations?
Maybe I'm biased because I think it's a dumbass rule. No, I'll admit it. I'm definitely biased because I think it's a dumbass rule. But a limo ride to the ceremony, a goodie bag and his family taking money and more stuff isn't enough to establish his personal "guilt" beyond a reasonable doubt in my eyes. These players get hero worshipped, ego padded and thrust into the spotlight, but people forget they're just damn kids.
Yet another thread blaming Bush.
I wasn't aware we had discussed HDN. But that is for another day.
this is a pretty nice summary
Just before the 2006 draft, reports surfaced raising questions about whether Bush's family received gifts in violation of NCAA policies. The school requested that the conference investigate the matter, and Bush denied any impropriety.
In November 2007, fledgling sports agent Lloyd Lake sued Bush and his family for not repaying over $290,000 in gifts. Lake also agreed to cooperate with the NCAA.[6] In April 2009, the Los Angeles Times reported that the NCAA merged its investigations of Bush and former USC basketball player O.J. Mayo into a single probe of the Trojans' athletic program.[7] On December 28, 2009 it was announced that Bush had lost his bid for confidential arbitration in this matter and that the case would proceed to trial.[8]. The case was settled in April 2010.[9]
On June 10, 2010, the NCAA announced major sanctions against USC. The NCAA found that Bush had received lavish gifts from Lake and his partner, Michael Michaels, from at least December 2004 onward, including a limousine ride to the 2005 Heisman Trophy presentation. As a result, USC was slapped with four years of probation and forced to vacate its last two wins of the 2004 season (including the 2005 Orange Bowl) as well as all of its wins in the 2005 season. The Trojans were also banned from bowl games in 2010 and 2011 and will lose 30 scholarships over three years. Running backs coach Todd McNair is banned from off-campus recruiting for one year after the NCAA determined he'd known about Bush's dealings with the agents. The NCAA also forced USC to permanently disassociate itself from Bush.[10][11]
The NCAA found that given Bush's high-profile status, USC should have invested more effort in monitoring Bush's relationships. In announcing the penalties, Paul Dee, chairman of the NCAA infractions committee, said, "High-profile players merit high-profile enforcement."[12]
Since the NCAA ruled that Bush lost his eligibility in December 2004, it is likely that USC will lose the 2004 BCS title. It is also possible that Bush will have to vacate the many awards he won in 2005, including his Heisman Trophy.[10] On July 20, 2010, incoming USC president Max Nikias stated that the school would remove jerseys and murals displayed in Bush's honor from its facilities, and would return the school's copy of Bush's Heisman Trophy.[13]
Reggie Bush - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I know this. But is a dumb starstruck kid responsible for a dumber rookie agent and whoever his backers are, or for what his family decides to accept - which is the vast majority of the allegations?
Maybe I'm biased because I think it's a dumbass rule. No, I'll admit it. I'm definitely biased because I think it's a dumbass rule. But a limo ride to the ceremony, a goodie bag and his family taking money and more stuff isn't enough to establish his personal "guilt" beyond a reasonable doubt in my eyes. These players get hero worshipped, ego padded and thrust into the spotlight, but people forget they're just damn kids.
OH no, dig around more. His family moved from a small apartment in the ghetto to a beach house mansion (no exaggeration) and he suddenly was showing up to school in a lexus. The kid essentially signed with an agent. That's a HUGE no no.
I know this. But is a dumb starstruck kid responsible for a dumber rookie agent and whoever his backers are, or for what his family decides to accept - which is the vast majority of the allegations?
Maybe I'm biased because I think it's a dumbass rule. No, I'll admit it. I'm definitely biased because I think it's a dumbass rule. But a limo ride to the ceremony, a goodie bag and his family taking money and more stuff isn't enough to establish his personal "guilt" beyond a reasonable doubt in my eyes. These players get hero worshipped, ego padded and thrust into the spotlight, but people forget they're just damn kids.
OH no, dig around more. His family moved from a small apartment in the ghetto to a beach house mansion (no exaggeration) and he suddenly was showing up to school in a lexus. The kid essentially signed with an agent. That's a HUGE no no.
Again....he was a damn kid. He's from the ghetto and showing up to school in a Lexus? I presume that would mean practice too. Where were the coaches to take him aside, find out what's going on and and explain the rules? Where were the family members to lead by example and give him good advice? Where was the industry pro who presumably could be trusted to know the rules? You really expect your average 19 or 20 year old to be responsible in that environment?
Hell with that. The kid got used. He's getting a good reward now, I don't feel bad for him at all. But the vast majority of the cash went to his family, not directly to him. And he should have been hauled back from the edge by the people who did have both the knowledge and supposedly the level of responsibility needed to resist that kind of temptation. Sounds to me like nobody really cared - until it meant giving up hardware. NOW it's an issue. Cry me a river.
OH no, dig around more. His family moved from a small apartment in the ghetto to a beach house mansion (no exaggeration) and he suddenly was showing up to school in a lexus. The kid essentially signed with an agent. That's a HUGE no no.
Again....he was a damn kid. He's from the ghetto and showing up to school in a Lexus? I presume that would mean practice too. Where were the coaches to take him aside, find out what's going on and and explain the rules? Where were the family members to lead by example and give him good advice? Where was the industry pro who presumably could be trusted to know the rules? You really expect your average 19 or 20 year old to be responsible in that environment?
Hell with that. The kid got used. He's getting a good reward now, I don't feel bad for him at all. But the vast majority of the cash went to his family, not directly to him. And he should have been hauled back from the edge by the people who did have both the knowledge and supposedly the level of responsibility needed to resist that kind of temptation. Sounds to me like nobody really cared - until it meant giving up hardware. NOW it's an issue. Cry me a river.
Oh I agree with you. How could Carroll not have noticed his star RB from Compton was suddenly showing up to practice in a lexus? How did someone not know that half the team was hanging out at Bush's beach house on the weekends? But that doesn't absolve Bush, kid or not, every scholarship athlete receives an introductory packet from the NCAA which clearly explains the rules. You hire an agent, which it was proven Bush did, and you lose your eligibility, PERIOD. Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law or the rules but Bush wasn't ignorant , he was willfully breaking the rules. The stupidest part is if he had paid dude the $300K he owed him after signing for millions no one would ever have known, but he didn't so he got sued and that's when the story broke.
Again....he was a damn kid. He's from the ghetto and showing up to school in a Lexus? I presume that would mean practice too. Where were the coaches to take him aside, find out what's going on and and explain the rules? Where were the family members to lead by example and give him good advice? Where was the industry pro who presumably could be trusted to know the rules? You really expect your average 19 or 20 year old to be responsible in that environment?
Hell with that. The kid got used. He's getting a good reward now, I don't feel bad for him at all. But the vast majority of the cash went to his family, not directly to him. And he should have been hauled back from the edge by the people who did have both the knowledge and supposedly the level of responsibility needed to resist that kind of temptation. Sounds to me like nobody really cared - until it meant giving up hardware. NOW it's an issue. Cry me a river.
Oh I agree with you. How could Carroll not have noticed his star RB from Compton was suddenly showing up to practice in a lexus? How did someone not know that half the team was hanging out at Bush's beach house on the weekends? But that doesn't absolve Bush, kid or not, every scholarship athlete receives an introductory packet from the NCAA which clearly explains the rules. You hire an agent, which it was proven Bush did, and you lose your eligibility, PERIOD. Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law or the rules but Bush wasn't ignorant , he was willfully breaking the rules. The stupidest part is if he had paid dude the $300K he owed him after signing for millions no one would ever have known, but he didn't so he got sued and that's when the story broke.
I'd love to see that contract.
Oh I agree with you. How could Carroll not have noticed his star RB from Compton was suddenly showing up to practice in a lexus? How did someone not know that half the team was hanging out at Bush's beach house on the weekends? But that doesn't absolve Bush, kid or not, every scholarship athlete receives an introductory packet from the NCAA which clearly explains the rules. You hire an agent, which it was proven Bush did, and you lose your eligibility, PERIOD. Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law or the rules but Bush wasn't ignorant , he was willfully breaking the rules. The stupidest part is if he had paid dude the $300K he owed him after signing for millions no one would ever have known, but he didn't so he got sued and that's when the story broke.
I'd love to see that contract.
The case was settled out of court in April, there will be no documents made public, nor was the settlement made public, but obviously Bush was found guilty else uSC wouldn't have been penalized. The guy is scum who knowingly broke rules for his own gain, why you would defend that is beyond me.
Rules are rules, stupid or not. But is Reggie the one who actually broke them?
Rules are rules, stupid or not. But is Reggie the one who actually broke them?
The Stamp Act was also a "rule". I say sue the NCAA. They're the de facto minor league for football and basketball. It's unfair to force a player to subscribe to their "rules" when they're a monopoly and the player has no other option. If you were talking baseball or hockey, it would be a different story. Reggie, melt down that Heismann and then send it back to them. It's all they deserve. As for paying anything back, if I were him, I'd spend all my money on lawyers before I sent them a penny.
Rules are rules, stupid or not. But is Reggie the one who actually broke them?
The Stamp Act was also a "rule". I say sue the NCAA. They're the de facto minor league for football and basketball. It's unfair to force a player to subscribe to their "rules" when they're a monopoly and the player has no other option. If you were talking baseball or hockey, it would be a different story. Reggie, melt down that Heismann and then send it back to them. It's all they deserve. As for paying anything back, if I were him, I'd spend all my money on lawyers before I sent them a penny.
I agree with the rules being bullshit.
But so far the Heisman Trust hasn't ruled one way or another. And even if they rescind the honor and ask for the trophy to be returned, I don't think they'll be asking for any money. Not sure where you came up with that.
