RW'ers: Should Obama/Feds follow Constitution...and ignore the storm victims/cities??

[bucs90]

I had this discussion many times over the past year. Pure Constitutionalists from the right wing argued that the federal govt, according to the Constitution, has NO AUTHORITY to send money or aid to local or state police, fire depts, schools, roads, etc. They say it doesn't grant them that power. Its the argument they make for being against the Feds sending money, aid, equipment to help struggling PD's and FD's around the country. They even argued that the Feds should NOT have helped with the Colorado wildfires, because it was a state/local issue, and the Feds have no business in those issues. THAT is what they argued. Look it up. In my best Tea Party accent "Tha Faydrul Gummint aint got no right to give my tax dollar to local gummints, it aint Constatooshnal".


WELL.........what now? Should President Obama obey the ideals of the right wing Constitutional purists, and say "Sorry all you folks in the Northeast. The Constitution doesn't allow the Federal government to aid local government. We can't send help."

And WHY isn't Romney/Ryan coming out and advocating he do just that? Aren't they true conservatives?????

 

[TruthSeeker56]

This is a PERFECT example of what the leftist end game is:

1. Identify an insignificant, "fringe" element of the opposition.
2. Concoct a scenario that would pertain ONLY to the fringe element.
3. Challenge the non-fringe elements of the opposition to justify/defend the beliefs of the fringe elements.

Since the leftists cannot defend their own failures, and their failed beliefs from the past, all they can do is sling mud, concoct rumors and lies, and seize the bully pulpit.

 

[bucs90]

Also...the reason locals are able to put cops on 84 hour work weeks during disasters (12 hr shift/7 days a week) until things are stable is because FEMA compensates the city/county/state for that pay. Otherwise, they wouldn't be able to afford it. They can't legally make them work if they dont pay them (remember, they aren't military, they're just regular ole evil gubmint workers). And they can't pay that amount of OT without going into deficit spending (borrowing) or raising a special event tax to pay for it.

Right wingers....explain yourselves. You'd tell the NE to piss off, help aint coming...right?

 

[SniperFire]

Also...the reason locals are able to put cops on 84 hour work weeks during disasters (12 hr shift/7 days a week) until things are stable is because FEMA compensates the city/county/state for that pay. Otherwise, they wouldn't be able to afford it. They can't legally make them work if they dont pay them (remember, they aren't military, they're just regular ole evil gubmint workers). And they can't pay that amount of OT without going into deficit spending (borrowing) or raising a special event tax to pay for it.

Right wingers....explain yourselves. You'd tell the NE to piss off, help aint coming...right?

FEMA doesn't 'compensate' anyone.

The taxpayer does.

 

[bucs90]

This is a PERFECT example of what the leftist end game is:

1. Identify an insignificant, "fringe" element of the opposition.
2. Concoct a scenario that would pertain ONLY to the fringe element.
3. Challenge the non-fringe elements of the opposition to justify/defend the beliefs of the fringe elements.

Since the leftists cannot defend their own failures, and their failed beliefs from the past, all they can do is sling mud, concoct rumors and lies, and seize the bully pulpit.

1- Im not a leftist. See my avatar.
2- I just think the last 4 years has seen an explosion in radical right wing mornonism, where they believe slashing pay/benefits for cops/firemen/teachers is 100% the answer, at any cost.
3- And, that they use the argument that the Feds have no Constitutional power/authority to aid in any way a local government with public safety.

This is a perfect example of that idea put into action.

And Romney/Ryan did advocate slashing FEMA. If they did....what would New Jersey be looking for right now?

OH THATS RIGHT.....they'd ask other states to help. Well, thats kinda the idea...all 50 states pitch in to a collective pot (The Feds) and when 1 state needs help, that pot is already in place. Kinda cool concept really.

 

[bucs90]

Also...the reason locals are able to put cops on 84 hour work weeks during disasters (12 hr shift/7 days a week) until things are stable is because FEMA compensates the city/county/state for that pay. Otherwise, they wouldn't be able to afford it. They can't legally make them work if they dont pay them (remember, they aren't military, they're just regular ole evil gubmint workers). And they can't pay that amount of OT without going into deficit spending (borrowing) or raising a special event tax to pay for it.

Right wingers....explain yourselves. You'd tell the NE to piss off, help aint coming...right?

FEMA doesn't 'compensate' anyone.

The taxpayer does.

Oh damn, good "zinger".

The taxpayer is gonna compensate someone to do it either way. Either through FEMA, or deficit spending/higher taxes at the local level. UNLESS.....unless you argue that the cops/firemen should NOT work overtime, just work their normal hours, and say "If that aint enough, go fuck yourselves."

Which is it?

 

[Charles_Main]

I had this discussion many times over the past year. Pure Constitutionalists from the right wing argued that the federal govt, according to the Constitution, has NO AUTHORITY to send money or aid to local or state police, fire depts, schools, roads, etc. They say it doesn't grant them that power. Its the argument they make for being against the Feds sending money, aid, equipment to help struggling PD's and FD's around the country. They even argued that the Feds should NOT have helped with the Colorado wildfires, because it was a state/local issue, and the Feds have no business in those issues. THAT is what they argued. Look it up. In my best Tea Party accent "Tha Faydrul Gummint aint got no right to give my tax dollar to local gummints, it aint Constatooshnal".


WELL.........what now? Should President Obama obey the ideals of the right wing Constitutional purists, and say "Sorry all you folks in the Northeast. The Constitution doesn't allow the Federal government to aid local government. We can't send help."

And WHY isn't Romney/Ryan coming out and advocating he do just that? Aren't they true conservatives?????

Please explain why you think the Constitution Forbids Federal Disaster Relief?

As a Constitutionalists, I see responding to things like Natural Disasters to be only of the few legitimate roles of the Federal Government.

 

[SniperFire]

Also...the reason locals are able to put cops on 84 hour work weeks during disasters (12 hr shift/7 days a week) until things are stable is because FEMA compensates the city/county/state for that pay. Otherwise, they wouldn't be able to afford it. They can't legally make them work if they dont pay them (remember, they aren't military, they're just regular ole evil gubmint workers). And they can't pay that amount of OT without going into deficit spending (borrowing) or raising a special event tax to pay for it.

Right wingers....explain yourselves. You'd tell the NE to piss off, help aint coming...right?

FEMA doesn't 'compensate' anyone.

The taxpayer does.

Oh damn, good "zinger".

The taxpayer is gonna compensate someone to do it either way. Either through FEMA, or deficit spending/higher taxes at the local level. UNLESS.....unless you argue that the cops/firemen should NOT work overtime, just work their normal hours, and say "If that aint enough, go fuck yourselves."

Which is it?

Right. Which is the point of letting the states keep their own money and not paying a middleman to hand it out.

 

[bucs90]

I had this discussion many times over the past year. Pure Constitutionalists from the right wing argued that the federal govt, according to the Constitution, has NO AUTHORITY to send money or aid to local or state police, fire depts, schools, roads, etc. They say it doesn't grant them that power. Its the argument they make for being against the Feds sending money, aid, equipment to help struggling PD's and FD's around the country. They even argued that the Feds should NOT have helped with the Colorado wildfires, because it was a state/local issue, and the Feds have no business in those issues. THAT is what they argued. Look it up. In my best Tea Party accent "Tha Faydrul Gummint aint got no right to give my tax dollar to local gummints, it aint Constatooshnal".


WELL.........what now? Should President Obama obey the ideals of the right wing Constitutional purists, and say "Sorry all you folks in the Northeast. The Constitution doesn't allow the Federal government to aid local government. We can't send help."

And WHY isn't Romney/Ryan coming out and advocating he do just that? Aren't they true conservatives?????

Please explain why you think the Constitution Forbids Federal Disaster Relief?

As a Constitutionalists, I see responding to things like Natural Disasters to be only of the few legitimate roles of the Federal Government.

I dont believe that. Far right wingers argued that to me earlier this year. They said the Feds had no authority/power to provide federal firefighters to help the Colorado locals. They argued that, if a massive disaster hit San Diego, that the men on the US Navy base would have no authority/power to aid the local govt outside the base walls.

They truly believe in that, that the Constitution doesn't allow the Feds the power to aid local PD's and FD's.

Im now asking THOSE people to comment on this. You obviously have much more common sense than they do.

 

[SniperFire]

I had this discussion many times over the past year. Pure Constitutionalists from the right wing argued that the federal govt, according to the Constitution, has NO AUTHORITY to send money or aid to local or state police, fire depts, schools, roads, etc. They say it doesn't grant them that power. Its the argument they make for being against the Feds sending money, aid, equipment to help struggling PD's and FD's around the country. They even argued that the Feds should NOT have helped with the Colorado wildfires, because it was a state/local issue, and the Feds have no business in those issues. THAT is what they argued. Look it up. In my best Tea Party accent "Tha Faydrul Gummint aint got no right to give my tax dollar to local gummints, it aint Constatooshnal".


WELL.........what now? Should President Obama obey the ideals of the right wing Constitutional purists, and say "Sorry all you folks in the Northeast. The Constitution doesn't allow the Federal government to aid local government. We can't send help."

And WHY isn't Romney/Ryan coming out and advocating he do just that? Aren't they true conservatives?????

Please explain why you think the Constitution Forbids Federal Disaster Relief?

As a Constitutionalists, I see responding to things like Natural Disasters to be only of the few legitimate roles of the Federal Government.

I dont believe that. Far right wingers argued that to me earlier this year. They said the Feds had no authority/power to provide federal firefighters to help the Colorado locals. They argued that, if a massive disaster hit San Diego, that the men on the US Navy base would have no authority/power to aid the local govt outside the base walls.

They truly believe in that, that the Constitution doesn't allow the Feds the power to aid local PD's and FD's.

Im now asking THOSE people to comment on this. You obviously have much more common sense than they do.

Those are the anarchist / narco-Libertarians, not the 'right wingers.'

 

[bucs90]

FEMA doesn't 'compensate' anyone.

The taxpayer does.

Oh damn, good "zinger".

The taxpayer is gonna compensate someone to do it either way. Either through FEMA, or deficit spending/higher taxes at the local level. UNLESS.....unless you argue that the cops/firemen should NOT work overtime, just work their normal hours, and say "If that aint enough, go fuck yourselves."

Which is it?

So who pays for....say....Newark, NJ's disaster relief? That city is almost bankrupt. They can't afford it. Let the people drown, starve and be victims of crime in the aftermath? Or cross our fingers and hope that Trenton, Camden, Seaside and other cities will volunteer to help? Or that NY, Delaware and other neighbors will?

Or....do you think it would be smarter to THINK AHEAD...have all the states/cities pitch in to a collective pool, train people AHEAD OF TIME, get supplies in place AHEAD OF TIME, in case this happens??

Nah, thats nonsense. Forget preparation and planning. Lets just wait til shit happens, then hope everyone volunteers to help out right?

 

[bucs90]

Please explain why you think the Constitution Forbids Federal Disaster Relief?

As a Constitutionalists, I see responding to things like Natural Disasters to be only of the few legitimate roles of the Federal Government.

I dont believe that. Far right wingers argued that to me earlier this year. They said the Feds had no authority/power to provide federal firefighters to help the Colorado locals. They argued that, if a massive disaster hit San Diego, that the men on the US Navy base would have no authority/power to aid the local govt outside the base walls.

They truly believe in that, that the Constitution doesn't allow the Feds the power to aid local PD's and FD's.

Im now asking THOSE people to comment on this. You obviously have much more common sense than they do.

Those are the anarchist / narco-Libertarians, not the 'right wingers.'

True, thats a fair point. Although those nuts tend to keep their habitats on the right side, they aren't representative of the whole group. Romney/Ryan did advocate slashing FEMA though. And they did campaign against aid for local PD's and FD's.

 

[SniperFire]

Oh damn, good "zinger".

The taxpayer is gonna compensate someone to do it either way. Either through FEMA, or deficit spending/higher taxes at the local level. UNLESS.....unless you argue that the cops/firemen should NOT work overtime, just work their normal hours, and say "If that aint enough, go fuck yourselves."

Which is it?

So who pays for....say....Newark, NJ's disaster relief? That city is almost bankrupt. They can't afford it. Let the people drown, starve and be victims of crime in the aftermath? Or cross our fingers and hope that Trenton, Camden, Seaside and other cities will volunteer to help? Or that NY, Delaware and other neighbors will?

Or....do you think it would be smarter to THINK AHEAD...have all the states/cities pitch in to a collective pool, train people AHEAD OF TIME, get supplies in place AHEAD OF TIME, in case this happens??

Nah, thats nonsense. Forget preparation and planning. Lets just wait til shit happens, then hope everyone volunteers to help out right?

New Jersey. But let me ask you this.

How many times should the National taxpayer be expected to rebuild New Orleans before that underwater shithole is abandoned?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

FEMA should be disbanded completely. We survived without it before Jimmy Carter, no reason we can't now. In some cases, like Katrina, they caused more problems than they did help. I also see no reason why individual states can't have a disaster fund on hand and ready for use to deal with situations like this.

That said, I'm not sure what is unconstitutional about the federal government providing disaster aid and I doubt many people have an issue with that. The problem I have is what constitutes a "disaster" and the abuse that comes with that kind of aid.

 

[SniperFire]

I dont believe that. Far right wingers argued that to me earlier this year. They said the Feds had no authority/power to provide federal firefighters to help the Colorado locals. They argued that, if a massive disaster hit San Diego, that the men on the US Navy base would have no authority/power to aid the local govt outside the base walls.

They truly believe in that, that the Constitution doesn't allow the Feds the power to aid local PD's and FD's.

Im now asking THOSE people to comment on this. You obviously have much more common sense than they do.

Those are the anarchist / narco-Libertarians, not the 'right wingers.'

True, thats a fair point. Although those nuts tend to keep their habitats on the right side, they aren't representative of the whole group. Romney/Ryan did advocate slashing FEMA though. And they did campaign against aid for local PD's and FD's.

I am not sure if FEMA is over funded or under funded.

Romney is at core a Federalist, and he wants to return everything to the states where it makes sense.

As stated upstream, I think FEMA is indeed a legit function of the Federal government, but as usual, such a program has a tendency to become bloated and abused.

 

[California Girl]

This is a PERFECT example of what the leftist end game is:

1. Identify an insignificant, "fringe" element of the opposition.
2. Concoct a scenario that would pertain ONLY to the fringe element.
3. Challenge the non-fringe elements of the opposition to justify/defend the beliefs of the fringe elements.

Since the leftists cannot defend their own failures, and their failed beliefs from the past, all they can do is sling mud, concoct rumors and lies, and seize the bully pulpit.

1- Im not a leftist. See my avatar.
2- I just think the last 4 years has seen an explosion in radical right wing mornonism, where they believe slashing pay/benefits for cops/firemen/teachers is 100% the answer, at any cost.
3- And, that they use the argument that the Feds have no Constitutional power/authority to aid in any way a local government with public safety.

This is a perfect example of that idea put into action.

And Romney/Ryan did advocate slashing FEMA. If they did....what would New Jersey be looking for right now?

OH THATS RIGHT.....they'd ask other states to help. Well, thats kinda the idea...all 50 states pitch in to a collective pot (The Feds) and when 1 state needs help, that pot is already in place. Kinda cool concept really.

An avatar doesn't make you not a leftist, you fucking moron. Accept it. You're a lefty. Don't be ashamed of your weakness and need to be taken care of. You're one of life's losers. I pity you.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

1- Im not a leftist

But you sure love their talking points

 

[bucs90]

This is a PERFECT example of what the leftist end game is:

1. Identify an insignificant, "fringe" element of the opposition.
2. Concoct a scenario that would pertain ONLY to the fringe element.
3. Challenge the non-fringe elements of the opposition to justify/defend the beliefs of the fringe elements.

Since the leftists cannot defend their own failures, and their failed beliefs from the past, all they can do is sling mud, concoct rumors and lies, and seize the bully pulpit.

1- Im not a leftist. See my avatar.
2- I just think the last 4 years has seen an explosion in radical right wing mornonism, where they believe slashing pay/benefits for cops/firemen/teachers is 100% the answer, at any cost.
3- And, that they use the argument that the Feds have no Constitutional power/authority to aid in any way a local government with public safety.

This is a perfect example of that idea put into action.

And Romney/Ryan did advocate slashing FEMA. If they did....what would New Jersey be looking for right now?

OH THATS RIGHT.....they'd ask other states to help. Well, thats kinda the idea...all 50 states pitch in to a collective pot (The Feds) and when 1 state needs help, that pot is already in place. Kinda cool concept really.

An avatar doesn't make you not a leftist, you fucking moron. Accept it. You're a lefty. Don't be ashamed of your weakness and need to be taken care of. You're one of life's losers. I pity you.

Yep. You got me pegged

 

[bucs90]

1- Im not a leftist

But you sure love their talking points

Some of them make a lot of sense. Some of the rights make a lot of sense.

Whats your point?