Retirement: Where do you stand?

[iamwhatiseem]

It is a deadly serious question. And one unfortunately few Americans think about until it is too late to really prepare for a successful retirement.
(Successful retirement meaning all monetary needs during retirement are met)

Read anywhere really - things likely to happen to SS:

1) NRA (Normal Retirement Age) that was lifted in 1983 from 65 to 67 will be raised again.
2) Benefit amounts will drop for future retirees..as an example people 35 and under will receive substantially less than comparable benefits today. (virtually certain)
3) SS taxes will rise. (virtually certain)
4) The long term future of SS is that it will be reduced to supplementary purposes only to pair with other savings plans.

-----------------------------------

Other items...
1) People are getting married later, having children later and living longer.
All of these dramatically affect the chances of successful retirement.
a) Getting a home later means prolonging mortgage payments deeper into prime earning years.
b) Children later in life means fewer prime earning years that can be concentrated on retirement savings.
c) Obviously living longer means greater amounts of funds necessary to reduce the chances of having to live in poverty in the last years of life if you didn't or couldn't plan for it.

2) And this is a BIG one...People spending future earnings to satisfy todays desires for material items and luxuries.
Because companies everywhere are getting out of the pension business, and reductions in SS benefits - people who do not plan well (or at all) for retirement will suffer terribly in their golden years. We have all seen them - people over 70 years old working part-time jobs and not out of choice, but necessity. This scenario will dramatically increase due to the fact that retirement now and perhaps forever depends on voluntary savings plans - and perhaps no modern nation on earth is as poor as Americans are at saving money for any reason.

Retirement should be a golden reward to be looked forward to; but unfortunately for many Americans it will be something that is dreaded.

 

[antagon]

i'm a bit off the reserve as it comes to retirement. i'll probably rely on sale of assets or on proceeds or sale of my business and property to retire. or i'll just retire on the property and grow my own food if i really fuck it up. its difficult for me to justify saving up money at the moment. maybe that will change when i'm closer to retirement age... when it's too late like you say.

 

[Epsilon Delta]

Agreed on all points, all of those things will occur and everyone is scrambling as to what to do about it. I certainly have no answers.

I honestly haven't though about retirement at all. Then again, I'm 22, so I guess that's normal, hahaha. Assuming the retirement age is gonna probably be raised to 70 in most places, it'll be the year 2058 when I retire.

Now THAT's weird to think about.

 

[uscitizen]

Anyone who counts on SS for their main income for retirement is in bad shape, even now.

The real question for future retirees will be medical care. Will Medicare still be available?
Unless you are a government employee you can count on your emnployer not providing retirees with medical care. Most of the few employers that still offer retiree medical coverage cut it off when you qualify for Medicare.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Anyone who counts on SS for their main income for retirement is in bad shape, even now.

The real question for future retirees will be medical care. Will Medicare still be available?
Unless you are a government employee you can count on your emnployer not providing retirees with medical care. Most of the few employers that still offer retiree medical coverage cut it off when you qualify for Medicare.

Thank you - excellent point and one I meant to include.
My company is dropping retirement coverage after 2020. (Which means me)

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Retirement: Where do you stand?

At age 42, I retired with enough cash to see me through for at least 40 years, if I stay spartan and frugal. Been five years already, and doing very well. In fact, my meager income off of little side projects almost pays the expenses. Almost.

 

[uscitizen]

Anyone who counts on SS for their main income for retirement is in bad shape, even now.

The real question for future retirees will be medical care. Will Medicare still be available?
Unless you are a government employee you can count on your emnployer not providing retirees with medical care. Most of the few employers that still offer retiree medical coverage cut it off when you qualify for Medicare.

Thank you - excellent point and one I meant to include.
My company is dropping retirement coverage after 2020. (Which means me)

Yep One serious hospitalization with no Medicare/insurance and there goes your home you paid for for 30 years.
And living on SS how can you even afford rent?

 

[iamwhatiseem]

i'm a bit off the reserve as it comes to retirement. i'll probably rely on sale of assets or on proceeds or sale of my business and property to retire. or i'll just retire on the property and grow my own food if i really fuck it up. its difficult for me to justify saving up money at the moment. maybe that will change when i'm closer to retirement age... when it's too late like you say.

Dangerous game friend.
You are assuming your business will still be of value years from now. There is not only of course no guarantee of this (something I am sure is not loss on you) - but depending on the type of business - it will likely be worth little decades from now.

 

[uscitizen]

Retire and grow you own food? Heck I am not even 67 and I am in a wheelchair. How could I grow my own food anymore?
I do miss gardening though.
btw I am finiancially secure.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Agreed on all points, all of those things will occur and everyone is scrambling as to what to do about it. I certainly have no answers.

I honestly haven't though about retirement at all. Then again, I'm 22, so I guess that's normal, hahaha. Assuming the retirement age is gonna probably be raised to 70 in most places, it'll be the year 2058 when I retire.

Now THAT's weird to think about.

At 22, despite what the extremist will tell you, it is not really necessary to think about retirement - other than - knowing that you will before you are 30.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Another unplanned and dramatic occurrence that can and does obliterate retirement plans and funds - divorce.

 

[loosecannon]

i'm a bit off the reserve as it comes to retirement. i'll probably rely on sale of assets or on proceeds or sale of my business and property to retire. or i'll just retire on the property and grow my own food if i really fuck it up. its difficult for me to justify saving up money at the moment. maybe that will change when i'm closer to retirement age... when it's too late like you say.

you will be fine. Investing in successful businesses and property is the best plan of all.

Investing in consumer investments is a dire risk, imo.

 

[antagon]

i'm a bit off the reserve as it comes to retirement. i'll probably rely on sale of assets or on proceeds or sale of my business and property to retire. or i'll just retire on the property and grow my own food if i really fuck it up. its difficult for me to justify saving up money at the moment. maybe that will change when i'm closer to retirement age... when it's too late like you say.

Dangerous game friend.
You are assuming your business will still be of value years from now. There is not only of course no guarantee of this (something I am sure is not loss on you) - but depending on the type of business - it will likely be worth little decades from now.

yeah. it is a dangerous game which isn't for everyone.

i'm not likely to be operating the same business as i am now by the time i retire, although that is possible. my hope would be to expand and diversify my portfolios in each of business equity and real estate such that it is of reasonable worth 20 years from now when i'm in my 50s. partial or silent ownership is a potential retirement option, should i get that right. for the time being most of that effort is invested in earning more. later on, it might be wise to make it more about building equity if that's the basis of my retirement.

i've got a feeling that saving dollars for retirement is a dangerous game, too. it scares me more at least. somehow i think dollars are worth more now than 20-30 years down the line, particularly with the ability to invest in my own enterprises at my disposal in the short term.

 

[loosecannon]

The real question for future retirees will be medical care. Will Medicare still be available?
Unless you are a government employee you can count on your emnployer not providing retirees with medical care. Most of the few employers that still offer retiree medical coverage cut it off when you qualify for Medicare.

Insurance can not be counted on even if it is private insurance. Medicare? Maybe. If need be you can go abroad for care. There are no answers to this. You can barely afford to plan for providing your own end of life care, it will bankrupt almost all of us.

 

[william the wie]

Ever since I had 20+% returns in 2000 and 2001 my wife prefers me staying at home building up our retirement accounts and since paying off our last debt in August of 1992 (it was a 40th birthday payment to me) our annual unavoidable expenses have been less than our annual savings. Two houses down there is a couple of about our same age that keep adding to their debt despite early state retirement.

I think the problem is lifestyle and even more early childhood. My wife Gail grew up on a farm in upstate NY and I was 6 when my father was blinded in his right eye, 8 when my brother Pat caught rheumatic fever. My wife and I learned early that bad things could happen to us. That makes a big and permanent difference in outlook. From what I could tell talking to older relatives growing up only those born after roughly 1911 were able to change their behavior to conform to economic reality when the great depression hit. The few exceptions were all special circumstances. I don't think anything positive public or private will be done about retirement until those born after October 1982 start achieving power.

The kids growing up that have known only lousy labor markets and BS government commitments will have a very different viewpoint than their elders and they will hold it all of their lives. It will also change the type of permanent solutions to the retirement problem that will emerge.

 

[uscitizen]

Another unplanned and dramatic occurrence that can and does obliterate retirement plans and funds - divorce.

Easy to avoid, do not get married.
You will be able to retire lots sooner.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

i'm a bit off the reserve as it comes to retirement. i'll probably rely on sale of assets or on proceeds or sale of my business and property to retire. or i'll just retire on the property and grow my own food if i really fuck it up. its difficult for me to justify saving up money at the moment. maybe that will change when i'm closer to retirement age... when it's too late like you say.

Dangerous game friend.
You are assuming your business will still be of value years from now. There is not only of course no guarantee of this (something I am sure is not loss on you) - but depending on the type of business - it will likely be worth little decades from now.

yeah. it is a dangerous game which isn't for everyone.

i'm not likely to be operating the same business as i am now by the time i retire, although that is possible. my hope would be to expand and diversify my portfolios in each of business equity and real estate such that it is of reasonable worth 20 years from now when i'm in my 50s. partial or silent ownership is a potential retirement option, should i get that right. for the time being most of that effort is invested in earning more. later on, it might be wise to make it more about building equity if that's the basis of my retirement.

i've got a feeling that saving dollars for retirement is a dangerous game, too. it scares me more at least. somehow i think dollars are worth more now than 20-30 years down the line, particularly with the ability to invest in my own enterprises at my disposal in the short term.

I can't argue your points here.
I have been thinking about alot of this lately.
At this moment I have only about $4500 in the market, although I have done exceptionally well since 2007 when this all began by timing the ups and downs with uncanny luck really. I pulled out all funds in March. The $4500 is just what I have put into a 401k account since then.
Right now I have a distinct belief that the markets are absolutely destined for a more serious decline than what occurred two years ago - this 11,400 is ludicrous...downright insanity. And if people thought they lost money in the last few years...if they are still in when this market adjusts...I really feel for them.
However this limbo I am in cannot continue, I am far too liquid with a declining dollar value. I waited too long to by up gold (yeah I know Trajan you tried to tell me) and buying it now would not be wise.
I really don't know what to do at this moment. I only owe about $60k now on our home, I should just go ahead and pay it off...but boy I should be able to take that same $60k and do far better than the interest savings.

pheh.

As for retirement, barring unforseen disasters - I will at the very least be comfortable.

 

[antagon]

Ever since I had 20+% returns in 2000 and 2001 my wife prefers me staying at home building up our retirement accounts and since paying off our last debt in August of 1992 (it was a 40th birthday payment to me) our annual unavoidable expenses have been less than our annual savings. Two houses down there is a couple of about our same age that keep adding to their debt despite early state retirement.

I think the problem is lifestyle and even more early childhood. My wife Gail grew up on a farm in upstate NY and I was 6 when my father was blinded in his right eye, 8 when my brother Pat caught rheumatic fever. My wife and I learned early that bad things could happen to us. That makes a big and permanent difference in outlook. From what I could tell talking to older relatives growing up only those born after roughly 1911 were able to change their behavior to conform to economic reality when the great depression hit. The few exceptions were all special circumstances. I don't think anything positive public or private will be done about retirement until those born after October 1982 start achieving power.

The kids growing up that have known only lousy labor markets and BS government commitments will have a very different viewpoint than their elders and they will hold it all of their lives. It will also change the type of permanent solutions to the retirement problem that will emerge.

a very strong bid for contrarian of the year.

i learned this early this year that bad things can happen, having maimed myself with the liftgate on my stakeside. it inspired some change in perspective, but that's wearing off now that i'm running around again.

the idea of gen-y folk at the helm is scary. what happened in october 82?

 

[loosecannon]

I can't argue your points here.
I have been thinking about alot of this lately.
At this moment I have only about $4500 in the market, although I have done exceptionally well since 2007 when this all began by timing the ups and downs with uncanny luck really. I pulled out all funds in March. The $4500 is just what I have put into a 401k account since then.
Right now I have a distinct belief that the markets are absolutely destined for a more serious decline than what occurred two years ago - this 11,400 is ludicrous...downright insanity. And if people thought they lost money in the last few years...if they are still in when this market adjusts...I really feel for them.
However this limbo I am in cannot continue, I am far too liquid with a declining dollar value. I waited too long to by up gold (yeah I know Trajan you tried to tell me) and buying it now would not be wise.
I really don't know what to do at this moment. I only owe about $60k now on our home, I should just go ahead and pay it off...but boy I should be able to take that same $60k and do far better than the interest savings.

pheh.

As for retirement, barring unforseen disasters - I will at the very least be comfortable.

For the short term there are plenty of options, commodities and playing the currencies rank high. If the dollar is going to depreciate it is easy to profit from that.

But that isn't a retirement plan.

The whole concept of retirement plans is antithetical to reality. It assumes that everybody who lives to be 65 can accumulate enough wealth via investments to tide them over for a period of 20+/- years.

That is completely unrealistic under the best of circumstances. It relies on the premise that investments will exist that will securely provide a means to provide returns to the entire population even while the bulk of the professional investment industry is vying for those same profit centers.

Between the two groups of investors there is no limit to how much income they may demand, and the rest of the productive world can not provide a profit stream large enough to satisfy those demands.

It just isn't possible.

I am certain I did a piss poor job of expressing my point, but as a % of profits gained via productivity labor and owners need the lion's share, while retirements demand at least 15%-20% and investors have an insatiable appetite for shares of a very limited pie.

The whole idea of investment income for the masses is absurd. All that is left is pure savings. But you can't save cash, so what can you save? Businesses and real estate. Or raw commodities like gold and silver.

Bonds are a gamble. They may just fail or reset.

 

[antagon]

Dangerous game friend.
You are assuming your business will still be of value years from now. There is not only of course no guarantee of this (something I am sure is not loss on you) - but depending on the type of business - it will likely be worth little decades from now.

yeah. it is a dangerous game which isn't for everyone.

i'm not likely to be operating the same business as i am now by the time i retire, although that is possible. my hope would be to expand and diversify my portfolios in each of business equity and real estate such that it is of reasonable worth 20 years from now when i'm in my 50s. partial or silent ownership is a potential retirement option, should i get that right. for the time being most of that effort is invested in earning more. later on, it might be wise to make it more about building equity if that's the basis of my retirement.

i've got a feeling that saving dollars for retirement is a dangerous game, too. it scares me more at least. somehow i think dollars are worth more now than 20-30 years down the line, particularly with the ability to invest in my own enterprises at my disposal in the short term.

I can't argue your points here.
I have been thinking about alot of this lately.
At this moment I have only about $4500 in the market, although I have done exceptionally well since 2007 when this all began by timing the ups and downs with uncanny luck really. I pulled out all funds in March. The $4500 is just what I have put into a 401k account since then.
Right now I have a distinct belief that the markets are absolutely destined for a more serious decline than what occurred two years ago - this 11,400 is ludicrous...downright insanity. And if people thought they lost money in the last few years...if they are still in when this market adjusts...I really feel for them.
However this limbo I am in cannot continue, I am far too liquid with a declining dollar value. I waited too long to by up gold (yeah I know Trajan you tried to tell me) and buying it now would not be wise.
I really don't know what to do at this moment. I only owe about $60k now on our home, I should just go ahead and pay it off...but boy I should be able to take that same $60k and do far better than the interest savings.

pheh.

As for retirement, barring unforseen disasters - I will at the very least be comfortable.

i'm kinda allergic to marketized investment, so i affirm your skepticism. the only way i'll get involved in that shit would be a public offering of a business of mine that i didn't really care about or care to own a significant share of.

the best investment is one which you are able to compound with your time. i think 'your money working for you' is overrated for this reason. if you have vast excesses of money, or are trying to retire, then it makes sense, however. i'm just not there yet.

if i were looking to dump $60k on real estate, it would be on another piece of real estate. yummy market at the moment. waiting for that bottom.