Recommended book: Lies My Teacher Told Me

[JBeukema]

So, I'm reading Lies My Teacher Told Me by James Loewen. It's great. It talks about everything form the role of the plagues in wiping out native populations, enabling European colonization of the 'New World'to Columbuis' role in the slave trade and his crew's preference for young native girls- citing first hand accounts, personal letters, and contemporary reports for all of it. He also talks about the 'real' Helen Keller and her active role in Americanpolitics, including how she was lauded at first, and then denounced and ridiculed for tupporting the Soviets.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

So, I'm reading Lies My Teacher Told Me by James Loewen. It's great. It talks about everything form the role of the plagues in wiping out native populations, enabling European colonization of the 'New World'to Columbuis' role in the slave trade and his crew's preference for young native girls- citing first hand accounts, personal letters, and contemporary reports for all of it. He also talks about the 'real' Helen Keller and her active role in Americanpolitics, including how she was lauded at first, and then denounced and ridiculed for tupporting the Soviets.

How many threads ya gonna start about this book?

 

[Epsilon Delta]

Ever read A People's History of the United States?

 

[editec]

Ever read A People's History of the United States?

I have, ED.

I took classes with Zinn. He was my GF's academic advisor.

It's a great book, but it's not really a great history book.

The book really isn't a historic study, it's more his political POV applied to the some parts of the history of the US.

The study of history can be the study of nearly anything, be it a grand overview or an indepth study of one small aspect of something in history

It's not just what the governments did, it's also what the people did, for example.

History is really everything that happened.

Now, for most people history is merely the grand overview of what happens to nations, and that's certainly okay.

One can study the history of America by studying what the leaders do, or one can also study American history by studying what the lives of the people were like, how what the government did or did not do effected those people.

Both approaches are equally valid, but they're likely to bring you to very different POVs about American history.

Incidently both POV's can be correct even though they can be very different.

That's exactly why things like woman's history or Black studies, or economic history, or social history are as important as the grand overview approach to history.

 

[Bfgrn]

I like James Loewen's beliefs that history should NOT be taught as straightforward facts and dates to memorize, but an in-depth analysis of the context and root causes of events.

I advocate that approach for all subjects...it's much more important to have knowledge with depth and scope that it is to know dates and facts...too often students are taught to pass a test...it creates a disconnect to WHY events occur...

It is the root cause of WHY our education system is falling behind the rest of the world.

 

[editec]

I like James Loewen's beliefs that history should NOT be taught as straightforward facts and dates to memorize, but an in-depth analysis of the context and root causes of events.

I advocate that approach for all subjects...it's much more important to have knowledge with depth and scope that it is to know dates and facts...too often students are taught to pass a test...it creates a disconnect to WHY events occur...

It is the root cause of WHY our education system is falling behind the rest of the world.

Our failure to support the study of history (and the other social sciences, and humanities too) is the reason that our nation is rapidly becoming a tyrannical shithole, I'll grant that.

We're so fucking hot to turn out science and math majors to turn out bombs and Iphones that we don't really know who to bomb or who to call when things get wierd.

A people who don't have a good sense of their own history are sheep waiting to be being driven to the slaughter.

 

[Valerie]

I like James Loewen's beliefs that history should NOT be taught as straightforward facts and dates to memorize, but an in-depth analysis of the context and root causes of events.

I advocate that approach for all subjects...it's much more important to have knowledge with depth and scope that it is to know dates and facts...too often students are taught to pass a test...it creates a disconnect to WHY events occur...

It is the root cause of WHY our education system is falling behind the rest of the world.

Our failure to support the study of history (and the other social sciences, and humanities too) is the reason that our nation is rapidly becoming a tyrannical shithole, I'll grant that.

We're so fucking hot to turn out science and math majors to turn out bombs and Iphones that we don't really know who to bomb or who to call when things get wierd.

A people who don't have a good sense of their own history are sheep waiting to be being driven to the slaughter.

I have that book JB, Lies My Teacher Told Me. It's a good one.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Et...5KXDBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4

 

[Douger]

The best truth I have found is Armed Madhouse by Greg Palast.
Another is The Secret History of the American Empire By John Perkins

 

[Sunni Man]

I like James Loewen's beliefs that history should NOT be taught as straightforward facts and dates to memorize, but an in-depth analysis of the context and root causes of events.

I advocate that approach for all subjects...it's much more important to have knowledge with depth and scope that it is to know dates and facts...too often students are taught to pass a test...it creates a disconnect to WHY events occur...

It is the root cause of WHY our education system is falling behind the rest of the world.

Our failure to support the study of history (and the other social sciences, and humanities too) is the reason that our nation is rapidly becoming a tyrannical shithole, I'll grant that.

We're so fucking hot to turn out science and math majors to turn out bombs and Iphones that we don't really know who to bomb or who to call when things get wierd.

A people who don't have a good sense of their own history are sheep waiting to be being driven to the slaughter.

So why are you against the Holocaust being examined and historically debated???

 

[Metternich]

It's sort of cheesy; he looks at some "obvious" lies but clearly overshoots some that one can but read as his personal lies he's telling the reader.

He tells throughout the book to not just accept what the book says, yes I agree but I think he missed some massive gloss overs that if they didn't agree with his personal lying - he would totally smack down. For instance, the 3/5th clause; totally ignores it. The Progressive Era 'reforms' that handidly helped establish monopolies for the coming century; totally ignores it. The inability of the American government to continue helping the Chinese Nationalists (or the Republic of China forfather movement); totally ignores it.

He just selectively lies about history in his own way - yeah it's a change of pace but just same shit, different format.

 

[editec]

I like James Loewen's beliefs that history should NOT be taught as straightforward facts and dates to memorize, but an in-depth analysis of the context and root causes of events.

I advocate that approach for all subjects...it's much more important to have knowledge with depth and scope that it is to know dates and facts...too often students are taught to pass a test...it creates a disconnect to WHY events occur...

It is the root cause of WHY our education system is falling behind the rest of the world.

Our failure to support the study of history (and the other social sciences, and humanities too) is the reason that our nation is rapidly becoming a tyrannical shithole, I'll grant that.

We're so fucking hot to turn out science and math majors to turn out bombs and Iphones that we don't really know who to bomb or who to call when things get wierd.

A people who don't have a good sense of their own history are sheep waiting to be being driven to the slaughter.

So why are you against the Holocaust being examined and historically debated???

I'm not.

What I'm against is people like you who apparently know nothing about history pretending that just because you've read some lying nonsense I must forget everything I know about history and pretend to give that nonsense credibility.

Here's a fucking wake-call for you, sport.

My first father-inlaw actually liberated one the camps that your fake historians swear never existed.

If you want to believe lies, be my guest.

But understand that you'll never convince me that everything I know about that history is wrong because I actually know (or knew since they're dying off, now) people who were there.

So let's recap who I am why I belive what I believe, shall we?

I am an historian who not only studied the history of NAZI germany in university, but I also personally knew two survivers (tatoos intact) and one liberator of the death camps that the NAZIs created. These were not caual relationships, I KNEW these people.

You're the world is flat historical nonsese just isn't going to wash with me, sport.

What's more I doubt even you are stupid enough to believe the blather you're attempting to pass off as fact.

 

[Sunni Man]

Our failure to support the study of history (and the other social sciences, and humanities too) is the reason that our nation is rapidly becoming a tyrannical shithole, I'll grant that.

We're so fucking hot to turn out science and math majors to turn out bombs and Iphones that we don't really know who to bomb or who to call when things get wierd.

A people who don't have a good sense of their own history are sheep waiting to be being driven to the slaughter.

So why are you against the Holocaust being examined and historically debated???

I'm not.

What I'm against is people like you who apparently know nothing about history pretending that just because you've read some lying nonsense I must forget everything I know about history and pretend to give that nonsense credibility.

Here's a fucking wake-call for you, sport.

My first father-inlaw actually liberated one the camps that your fake historians swear never existed.

I never ever said that the prison camps didn't exist.

Of course they did.

And many were liberated by the allied soldiers.

 

[RadiomanATL]

So why are you against the Holocaust being examined and historically debated???

I'm not.

What I'm against is people like you who apparently know nothing about history pretending that just because you've read some lying nonsense I must forget everything I know about history and pretend to give that nonsense credibility.

Here's a fucking wake-call for you, sport.

My first father-inlaw actually liberated one the camps that your fake historians swear never existed.

I never ever said that the prison camps didn't exist.

Of course they did.

And many were liberated by the allied soldiers.

So what is it you doubt about the holocaust? That people actually died?

 

[Sunni Man]

I'm not.

What I'm against is people like you who apparently know nothing about history pretending that just because you've read some lying nonsense I must forget everything I know about history and pretend to give that nonsense credibility.

Here's a fucking wake-call for you, sport.

My first father-inlaw actually liberated one the camps that your fake historians swear never existed.

I never ever said that the prison camps didn't exist.

Of course they did.

And many were liberated by the allied soldiers.

So what is it you doubt about the holocaust? That people actually died?

Of course people died at the prison/work camps.

They died of starvation, disease, over work, and some where executed.

I just don't believe the current facts support that 6 million parished at these camps.

Plus the evidence is very weak that the prison/ work camps were giant death factorys complete with gas chambers and furnaces for mass extermanation

 

[editec]

So why are you against the Holocaust being examined and historically debated???

I'm not.

What I'm against is people like you who apparently know nothing about history pretending that just because you've read some lying nonsense I must forget everything I know about history and pretend to give that nonsense credibility.

Here's a fucking wake-call for you, sport.

My first father-inlaw actually liberated one the camps that your fake historians swear never existed.

I never ever said that the prison camps didn't exist.

Of course they did.

And many were liberated by the allied soldiers.

Sorry sport, but your debate by deflection games won't work on me.

Here's the nail in the coffin of your attempts to pervert history, lad.

Where did all the Jews of Europe go?

The demographics of Europe were quite sophisticated and we knew with tremdnous precision how many Jews lived in Germany and most of the nations which Germany took over.

Millions of them existed, then they were carted off to those camps.

Those camps had no facilities to hold millions of people, but they did have gas chambers and crematoriums suited to killing millions.

The railroad schedules of the trains are still in existence.

The records of how many were killed per day are still in existence.

The eyewitnesses of hundred of thousands of NON JEWS testify to the roundup and extermination of those jews (and millions of non-jews, too)

Yes, there were work camps where Jews and (mostly Poles and Russians) were worked to death that is true.

And there were also death camps where people were send and killed within hours of arrival.

If you imagine that this is nonsense do feel free to do the research to see that I am right.

But don't waste my time trying to tell me anything about this subject, because, Pal, I think you are nothing but a lying NAZI TROLL.

Are we clear about that?

I have some respect for the board NAZI's who don't at least pretend to be anything but what they are.

But for you agent provocatuers and the lieing games you play that you apparently think are so clever?

For that foolishness I have nothing but contempt.

I don't believe you're a Moslem, I think you're a liar.

I don't mean to be offensive, but your lies offend me because they imply that you think I'm stupid enough to fall for them.

 

[RadiomanATL]

I never ever said that the prison camps didn't exist.

Of course they did.

And many were liberated by the allied soldiers.

So what is it you doubt about the holocaust? That people actually died?

Of course people died at the prison/work camps.

They died of starvation, disease, over work, and some where executed.

I just don't believe the current facts support that 6 million parished at these camps.

Plus the evidence is very weak that the prison/ work camps were giant death factorys complete with gas chambers and furnaces for mass extermanation

Don't believe pictures, film, eyewitness accounts and the Nazi's own writings, huh? Well, besides all of those things, I guess the evidence is very weak.

 

[Sunni Man]

So what is it you doubt about the holocaust? That people actually died?

Of course people died at the prison/work camps.

They died of starvation, disease, over work, and some where executed.

I just don't believe the current facts support that 6 million parished at these camps.

Plus the evidence is very weak that the prison/ work camps were giant death factorys complete with gas chambers and furnaces for mass extermanation

Don't believe pictures, film, eyewitness accounts and the Nazi's own writings, huh? Well, besides all of those things, I guess the evidence is very weak.

The victors write the history.

Sure there are pictures of naked dead bodies.

How did they die? Starvation? Disease? Over work?

Nothing to prove they were gassed as claimed.

Also, where they Russian prisoners? German civilians? Slavs? Gypsies?

Nothing to prove the people in the pictures were Jews as claimed.

 

[RadiomanATL]

Of course people died at the prison/work camps.

They died of starvation, disease, over work, and some where executed.

I just don't believe the current facts support that 6 million parished at these camps.

Plus the evidence is very weak that the prison/ work camps were giant death factorys complete with gas chambers and furnaces for mass extermanation

Don't believe pictures, film, eyewitness accounts and the Nazi's own writings, huh? Well, besides all of those things, I guess the evidence is very weak.

The victors write the history.

Sure there are pictures of naked dead bodies.

How did they die? Starvation? Disease? Over work?

Nothing to prove they were gassed as claimed.

Also, where they Russian prisoners? German civilians? Slavs? Gypsies?

Nothing to prove the people in the pictures were Jews as claimed.

Sorry, go peddle your bullshit elsewhere. The overwhelming preponderance of historical evidence from varying sources (not just "the victors") shows you are completely wrong. I'm not going to waste any more bandwidth on you.

 

[Sunni Man]

Most of the world doesn't believe in the Holohoax.

Basically, Europe, Canada, Israel, and the U.S. accept this fraudlent story.

And even people in these places are starting to doubt the holocaust myth

 

[RadiomanATL]

Most of the world doesn't believe in the Holohoax.

Basically, Europe, Canada, Israel, and the U.S. accept this fraudlent story.

And even people in these places are starting to doubt the holocaust myth

So what you're saying is that the people that believe it are the ones that were a part of it on one side or the other and had the opportunity to witness it and have had it seared into their national consciousness. Excuse me, but no shit sherlock. I don't think your average Congolese mid-30's adult even knows what years WWII took place, let alone the history of it.

Go peddle your bullshit elsewhere.