Real Change for Gays/Lesbians

[catzmeow]

You've topped yourself out. Nice job. I sure hope none of your kids turn out to be gay and no harm ever comes to them that is hate motivated, really. Have fun with that right wing spin, and while you're at it read the trial transcripts. In court the defendants attempted to use the "gay panic defense", arguing that they were driven to temporary insanity by alleged sexual advances by Shepard.

Good luck with re-trying the case. Have you been dating Fred Phelps again?

My source for this was clearly linked: 20/20, November 26, 2004.

Is it your suggestion that 20/20 is anti-gay? Perhaps, homophobic? Has a clearcut agenda against gays? Is dating Fred Phelps?

You're the equivalent of a fundamentalist lesbian, Sky. Anything that challenges your paradigms, no matter how factual, must be vehemently rebuked and villified.

It's sad. Funny sad, but still sad.

Try again.

 

[Nik]

Incorrect. The hate speech and/or engaged in association with hate groups is not what one needs to prove to attach the hate crime moniker. Its the mental state of the individual and their motive. Hate speech and association can be used as evidence for mental state, but the association itself isn't t he crime.

The hate speech and/or association is about the only evidence you would have towards mental state, thus making them equivalent to a crime.

No. Things that are used as evidence that a thing happened aren't the same thing as the thing happening. If someone kills someone and the ONLY evidence for the crime is what they wrote in their journal, which is a complete description of the crime that only the killer could know, they can be prosecuted for it. And all they did was use their constitutionally protected right to speak! How terrible!

 

[catzmeow]

No. Things that are used as evidence that a thing happened aren't the same thing as the thing happening. If someone kills someone and the ONLY evidence for the crime is what they wrote in their journal, which is a complete description of the crime that only the killer could know, they can be prosecuted for it. And all they did was use their constitutionally protected right to speak! How terrible!

That's right. They are used in establishing motive and guilt when a suspect is charged with a crime. You are ADDING a new offense: Hate crime. how do you prove it? Through spoken word, written word, and associations. Thus, criminalizing those actions.

Same as with gangs.

That's why the Florida court overturned the gang enhancements here. Because, in essence, defendants were being punished for their speech and associations with lengthier sentences. But, you don't have to believe me, i've provided a link to the analysis of the decision so you can read it for yourself.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Back to real change for gays and lesbians:

"Race-based hate crimes leading up to the civil rights movement prompted federal legislation to help deter and prevent such acts. However, these law enforcement "definitions" of what makes a crime a hate crime have not been expanded since 1968. The need for the inclusion of sexual orientation and gender identity in hate crime legislation has become more apparent given the continual increase in LGBT-biased violence.

Including sexual orientation and gender expression into federal hate crime legislation would allow the Justice Department to assist with the investigation of state and local hate based offenses. Federal assistance alleviates overburdened and underfunded local law enforcement officials, better enabling them to solve crimes based on sexual orientation and gender expression violence.

In 2009, the Federal Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act passed the House. The bill expands existing federal hate crime laws to include sexual orientation, gender expression, gender and disability."
Why We Need Federal Hate Crime Protection For Gays - Federal Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act

 

[catzmeow]

Back to real change for gays and lesbians:

Unmistakable sign of pwnage: Sky posts a link and pretends she had a point, while forgetting the one in which she got owned.