Push-Back Against 'Evolution' in Schools?

PoliticalChic

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James Madison: "...a people who mean to be their own Governors, must arm themselves with the power knowledge gives."

Knowledge for an informed debate.....



1. Demographic studies show that religious families consistently have more children. Parents invest enormous amount of time, money and emotional energy into raising their children, only to lose them to secular worldviews pounded into their minds through public education and the entertainment culture. A study in Britain found that non-religious parents have a near 100% chance of passing their views to their children, whereas religious parents have only about a 50/50 chance of passing on their views.
Breeding for God

The reason?
Government schooling which pushes secularization, and post modern concepts, i.e., those not necessarily based on truth.




2. Perhaps as a consequence of the above, there is a growing number of Europeans who want schools to cover evolution and creation…

a." More than half of British adults think that intelligent design and creationism should be taught alongside evolution in school science lessons – a proportion higher than in the US. .... "Evolutionary theories should be taught in science lessons in schools together with other possible perspectives, such as intelligent design and creationism.".... Advocates of intelligent design argue that some features of the universe and nature are so complex they must have been designed by a higher intelligence." Teach both evolution and creationism say 54% of Britons | Science | The Guardian

b…the most blatant attempt to ban evolution from the classrooms occurred in Italy in 2004. Letizia Moratti, then education minister, caused a public outcry when she removed the theory of evolution from the curricula of Italy’s middle schools2 on the grounds that teaching Darwin’s theory of evolution can instill a materialist view of life in young minds.

c A recent study by Observa Science in Society, a Vicenza-based body that promotes informed debate on scientific issues, shows that only 11% of Italians support the exclusion of Darwinism from curricula. But almost two thirds would prefer lessons to cover both evolutionary theory and the creationist view.

d. According to a 2005 US study, just 40% of Americans accepted the theory of evolution, down from 45% in 1985. (Miller, J. D. et al. Science 313, 765–766 (2006).
http://www.scienceinschool.org/repository/docs/issue9_nature_graebsch2006.pdf

e. “ Microevolution, the adaptation of species to their environment, is an observed scientific fact, which we of course do not deny. But macroevolution, the gradual process of development of new species, is a mere conclusion, there’s no observational evidence for that.” Peter Korevaar is head of the physics and cosmology working group of Germany’s Studiengemeinschaft Wort und Wissen, one of the largest creationist groups in Europe. He holds a PhD in astrophysics and now works at IBM in Mannheim. http://www.scienceinschool.org/repository/docs/issue9_nature_graebsch2006.pdf




Again:
"But macroevolution, the gradual process of development of new species, is a mere conclusion, there’s no observational evidence for that."


The fact that there is no observable evidence for one species 'evolving' into another, and no fossil-trail for same, is, as much as possible, kept assiduously hidden from the public.

This fact alone should give one pause.







3. “The idea that secularization is the irreversible wave of the future is still the conventional wisdom in intellectual circles here. They would be bemused, to say the least, at a Dutch relapse into religiosity. But as the authors of a recently published study called De Toekomst van God (The Future of God) point out, organized prayer in the workplace is just one among several pieces of evidence suggesting that Holland is on the threshold of a new era--one we might call the age of "post-secularization."… God is back in Europe's most notoriously liberal country….The decline of liberal Protestantism has been matched by that of liberal Catholicism….among the under-20s it is rising again, and by a significant margin. A CBS survey noted that between 2003 and 2004, church attendance among under-20s rose seemingly inexplicably, from 9 percent to 14 percent.” Holland's Post-Secular Future | The Weekly Standard


4. The secularization thesis: Societies secularize when the “cosmopolitan confrontations of city living exposed the relativity of the myths and traditions men once thought were unquestionable.”
Harvey Cox, “The Secular City,” p. 1

a. While it might seem that the above reflects the decline of religion....actually, a major factor in the reversal of this thesis can be traced to the fall of totalitarian regimes with their state-enforced atheism.

b. And, it has been shown that during the rapid urbanization of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, both Protestants and Catholics actually predominated in cities more than in rural areas. Perhaps Mr. Clark is missing the point.
See Finke and Stark, “The Churching of America: 1776-1990,”p. 203-207




5. Resurgence on secular college campuses?
“Harvard students are increasingly "churchgoing, Bible-studying, and believing," says Jay Harris, the dean who administers the General Education program. "We have a very strong evangelical community.”
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/02/10/harvard-s-crisis-of-faith.html



Why the fear of debate?

Is it possible that 'evolution' is less a scientific concept than a political one?



Could be?
 
Physicist Victor Stengler writes:
“Astronomical observations continue to demonstrate that the earth is no more significant than a single grain of sand on a vast beach.”

The more science teaches us about the natural world, the less important the role human beings play in the grand scheme of things.

As science writer Tom Bethell notes, “an article of our secular faith that there is nothing exceptional about human life.” Thus, we can add this ‘atheism-article-of-faith’ to the others, materialism, and moral relativism, that form the Cliff-Notes of modern liberalism.
Berlinski, "The Devil's Delusion," chapter one.


a. So, it seems that in our time, much of science is involved in an attack on traditional religious thought, and rational men and women must place their faith, and devotion, in this system of belief.

And, like any militant church, science places a familiar demand before all others: “Thou shalt have no other gods before me.” Ibid.
 
Although it can be fun to poke holes into "Evolution," most of the hole pokers have about as much scientific credentials as a C-average high school grad (which most of them are). But to suppose that there is any other explanation for the existence of the current varieties of species in the world is - I hate to use the word - stupid.

Most compelling for me are the analyses of plants and animals in areas of the world that became geologically isolated at various times (Madagascar, Australia, etc.). The unique species in these areas, and the traceability of those species is ONLY explainable through evolution. For those who (incredibly) believe that all species were created at the time of creation, this is a complete mystery and not explainable.

Religious people who are rational (yes, there are some of us) have had to conclude that large portions of Genesis are allegorical and not factual, and that the scribes and prophets were reporting on the world as they understood it, and not the world as it exists from a scientific standpoint.

"Creation-ism" is not a science, and has no place in any credible academic institution. "Intelligent design" is merely an attempt to shade misunderstandings of Evolution so that they appear to be "the Hand of God." Fine for Church or dinner conversation, but not really appropriate for a high school "science" class.
 
Although it can be fun to poke holes into "Evolution," most of the hole pokers have about as much scientific credentials as a C-average high school grad (which most of them are). But to suppose that there is any other explanation for the existence of the current varieties of species in the world is - I hate to use the word - stupid.

Most compelling for me are the analyses of plants and animals in areas of the world that became geologically isolated at various times (Madagascar, Australia, etc.). The unique species in these areas, and the traceability of those species is ONLY explainable through evolution. For those who (incredibly) believe that all species were created at the time of creation, this is a complete mystery and not explainable.

Religious people who are rational (yes, there are some of us) have had to conclude that large portions of Genesis are allegorical and not factual, and that the scribes and prophets were reporting on the world as they understood it, and not the world as it exists from a scientific standpoint.

"Creation-ism" is not a science, and has no place in any credible academic institution. "Intelligent design" is merely an attempt to shade misunderstandings of Evolution so that they appear to be "the Hand of God." Fine for Church or dinner conversation, but not really appropriate for a high school "science" class.



1. " But to suppose that there is any other explanation for the existence of the current varieties of species in the world is - I hate to use the word - stupid."

Well....simply admit that you accept the theory of evolution on faith.
Then you won't appear stupid.

a. "And let us dispose of a common misconception. The complete transmutation of even one animal species into a different species has never been directly observed either in the laboratory or in the field." Dean H. Kenyon (Professor of Biology, San Francisco State University), affidavit presented to the U.S. Supreme Court, No. 85-1513, Brief of Appellants, prepared under the direction of William J. Guste, Jr., Attorney General of the State of Louisiana, October 1985, p. A-16.




2. This was in the OP....you might want to read it more carefully:

“ Microevolution, the adaptation of species to their environment, is an observed scientific fact, which we of course do not deny. But macroevolution, the gradual process of development of new species, is a mere conclusion, there’s no observational evidence for that.” Peter Korevaar is head of the physics and cosmology working group of Germany’s Studiengemeinschaft Wort und Wissen, one of the largest creationist groups in Europe. He holds a PhD in astrophysics and now works at IBM in Mannheim. http://www.scienceinschool.org/repos...aebsch2006.pdf

Based on the above, you might wish to be more careful with the use of the word 'stupid."
It has a way of boomaranging.....





3. ".... the scribes and prophets were reporting on the world as they understood it, and not the world as it exists from a scientific standpoint."

Interesting that you say that. Darwin's theory is not science either.
It is conjecture, a philosophical discussion. That's the correct way to refer to ideas sans evidence.

Based on that, why object to a full-blown debate such as the OP points out that many have requested?
 
It is easy to poke holes in evolution. We do not know all there is to know about it yet.

What is far far easier to do than that, is to poke holes in Creationism.


If it is 'easy to poke holes in evolution,' why, then, would you accept it as any more than an interesting discussion topic?


I'm going to suggest that you are unaware of the importance of Darwin's theory to secularism, to Leftism.

Do you realize the connection?
 
PC, if you are saying that evolution should be open to scientific investigation, of course you are correct. That should be done in the science classroom.

Creationism and ID are not scientific, thus they cannot be part of the debate in the science classroom. That discussion can be done in the liberal arts classroom.

You also have the opportunity in our country to private school or home school your children.
 
PC, if you are saying that evolution should be open to scientific investigation, of course you are correct. That should be done in the science classroom.

Creationism and ID are not scientific, thus they cannot be part of the debate in the science classroom. That discussion can be done in the liberal arts classroom.

You also have the opportunity in our country to private school or home school your children.



1. "Creationism and ID are not scientific, thus they cannot be part of the debate in the science classroom."

As Darwin's theory of one species changing into another is without evidence for over one hundred years, it is not 'scientific,' either.


Therefore, it should be relegated to where ever you decide any other theory based on faith should be.



2. What's is required is a clear understanding of what is science, and what is conjecture and/or consensus.

Here's what science was:

"Empiricism in the philosophy of science emphasizes evidence, especially as discovered in experiments. It is a fundamental part of the scientific method that all hypotheses and theories must be tested against observations of the natural world rather than resting solely on a priori reasoning, intuition, or revelation.."
Empiricism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You've been taught that, haven't you?



a. Philosopher Michael Devitt explains that “there is only one way of knowing, the empirical way that is the basis of science.”
Discuss. (An interesting quote from Michael Devitt)


b. This echoes David Hume, “An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding” :
“If we take in our hand any volume; ... let us ask, Does it contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number? No. Does it contain any experimental reasoning concerning matter of fact and existence? No. Commit it then to the flames: for it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion.”



Did you get that? "...nothing but sophistry and illusion.”
That's Darwin's theory, isn't it.

3. So....science is either empirical, requiring evidence....or, it can rely on logic and a philosophical basis for truth.

Which is it?


And why is Darwin's theory essential to the Left?
 
Hey, PC.

Instead of taking on your points one by one, I will post here places where one can find more information on the subject because I can see from your posts that you don't fully grasp the theory nor the facts about evolution.

From the Smithsonian Institute regarding human evolution:
Human Evolution Evidence | The Smithsonian Institution's Human Origins Program

From UC Berkely, the evidence for evolution:
What is the evidence for evolution?

A quick guide to some of the evidence for evolution:
Five Proofs of Evolution | Evolution FAQ

29 evidences for macroevolution:
29+ Evidences for Macroevolution: The Scientific Case for Common Descent

Some videos showing the more complex evidences for evolution:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i1fGkFuHIu0&desktop_uri=/watch?v=i1fGkFuHIu0
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-CvX_mD5weM
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K11knFKqW4s
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eblrphIwoJQ

There is SO much more on this subject that can easily be found by simply doing a google search.

For you to learn more about the theory and the science behind it is incumbent upon you to do so. Much of what you think about evolution is actually misconceptions, mischaracterizations, caricatures, and oversimplifications. I personally swear to you that on this subject you are either misinformed or uninformed and that by learning more about it the world will become a far more complex place than you currently think it is. I can tell you are an intelligent person and it isn't hard for me to believe that you would be interested in this subject if you'll only give it a real, authentic, genuine chance with an open mind.

I would love to have a discussion if you still have questions.
 
Hey, PC.

Instead of taking on your points one by one, I will post here places where one can find more information on the subject because I can see from your posts that you don't fully grasp the theory nor the facts about evolution.

From the Smithsonian Institute regarding human evolution:
Human Evolution Evidence | The Smithsonian Institution's Human Origins Program

From UC Berkely, the evidence for evolution:
What is the evidence for evolution?

A quick guide to some of the evidence for evolution:
Five Proofs of Evolution | Evolution FAQ

29 evidences for macroevolution:
29+ Evidences for Macroevolution: The Scientific Case for Common Descent

Some videos showing the more complex evidences for evolution:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i1fGkFuHIu0&desktop_uri=/watch?v=i1fGkFuHIu0
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-CvX_mD5weM
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K11knFKqW4s
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eblrphIwoJQ

There is SO much more on this subject that can easily be found by simply doing a google search.

For you to learn more about the theory and the science behind it is incumbent upon you to do so. Much of what you think about evolution is actually misconceptions, mischaracterizations, caricatures, and oversimplifications. I personally swear to you that on this subject you are either misinformed or uninformed and that by learning more about it the world will become a far more complex place than you currently think it is. I can tell you are an intelligent person and it isn't hard for me to believe that you would be interested in this subject if you'll only give it a real, authentic, genuine chance with an open mind.

I would love to have a discussion if you still have questions.






How about you prove how intimately you understand same by giving a few examples of one species being documented as changing into another.
 
It is easy to poke holes in evolution. We do not know all there is to know about it yet.

What is far far easier to do than that, is to poke holes in Creationism.


If it is 'easy to poke holes in evolution,' why, then, would you accept it as any more than an interesting discussion topic?


I'm going to suggest that you are unaware of the importance of Darwin's theory to secularism, to Leftism.

Do you realize the connection?

I accept evolution because it best explains what I know to be true.

The only reason that it is important to lefties is because it issues if fundamentalists so much. That is the only connection. That doesn't mean it isn't true.
 
Creationists cannot defend creationism, therefor they can only attack evolution. Ironically, all the things that they criticize about evolution goes double for creation.

There isn't one gram of proof of anything that creationism teaches.
 
It is easy to poke holes in evolution. We do not know all there is to know about it yet.

What is far far easier to do than that, is to poke holes in Creationism.


If it is 'easy to poke holes in evolution,' why, then, would you accept it as any more than an interesting discussion topic?


I'm going to suggest that you are unaware of the importance of Darwin's theory to secularism, to Leftism.

Do you realize the connection?

I accept evolution because it best explains what I know to be true.

The only reason that it is important to lefties is because it issues if fundamentalists so much. That is the only connection. That doesn't mean it isn't true.



No prob.

You're free to 'accept' what ever you wish.

Just as long as you realize that proof of same is lacking.





"The only reason that it is important to lefties is because it issues if fundamentalists so much. That is the only connection."

Not so.


There is a reason why Darwin is essential to Leftists...to secularists.
In fact your statement is the very reverse of the truth.

This may help:

The novelist Aldous Huxley, in his treatise, "Ends and Means," says the following...

"For myself, as, no doubt, for most of my contemporaries, the philosophy of meaninglessness was essentially an instrument of liberation. The liberation we desired was simultaneously liberation from a certain political and economic system and liberation from a certain system of morality. We objected to the morality because it interfered with our sexual freedom." Evolutionary theory provided the metaphysical framework for meaninglessness.

The denial of God serves as a psychological crutch for someone who needs to hope that there is no accountability for his failure to believe, or for deficiencies in his self-concocted moral system. For as the Russian author Dostoevsky once claimed, if there is no God, all acts are equivalent. Evolutionary theory attempts to add the patina of credibility to the atheistic position."
Were We Fooled by Stephen J. Gould?



Once you realize, as Darwin did, that the proof of his theory is missing....an intelligent person might ask why so many are wedded to the idea.


"Consequently if this theory be true (evolution) it is indisputable that before the lowest Cambrian stratum was deposited, long periods elapsed, as long as, or probably far longer than, the whole interval from the Cambrian age to the present day; and that during these vast periods the world swarmed with living creatures."

"To the question why we do not find rich fossiliferous deposits belonging to these assumed earliest periods prior to the Cambrian system I can give no satisfactory answer . . . Nevertheless, the difficulty of assigning any good reason for the absence of vast piles of strata rich in fossils beneath the Cambrian system is very great."
Charles Darwin, The Origin of Species, chapter Ten: On the Imperfection of the Geologic Record: On the Sudden Appearance of Groups of Allied Species in the lowest known Fossiliferous Strata.pp. 164


It's 150 years later....
....and still no proof.
 
Creationists cannot defend creationism, therefor they can only attack evolution. Ironically, all the things that they criticize about evolution goes double for creation.

There isn't one gram of proof of anything that creationism teaches.


Yeah....I'll accept that.

The essential question of the OP is why believers in Darwin are so afraid to have the public debate.

From your post....I'd think that they'd be only too happy to have the debate....



But note this:

The science establishment continues to stone-wall the public, "There are no weaknesses in the theory of evolution." This was the testimony of Eugenie Scott to the Texas State Board of Education in January when the Board was debating new state science curriculum standards.

Dr. Scott is Executive Director of the National Center for Science Education (NCSE), ..." Stutz, T. Texas education board debates teaching of evolution.
Dallas Morning News, January 21, 2009....

Dr. Stephen C. Meyer produced a binder of one hundred peer-reviewed scientific articles in which biologists described significant problems with the theory.
Meyer, "Darwin's Doubt."



Strange, huh?
 
Hey, PC.

Instead of taking on your points one by one, I will post here places where one can find more information on the subject because I can see from your posts that you don't fully grasp the theory nor the facts about evolution.

From the Smithsonian Institute regarding human evolution:
Human Evolution Evidence | The Smithsonian Institution's Human Origins Program

From UC Berkely, the evidence for evolution:
What is the evidence for evolution?

A quick guide to some of the evidence for evolution:
Five Proofs of Evolution | Evolution FAQ

29 evidences for macroevolution:
29+ Evidences for Macroevolution: The Scientific Case for Common Descent

Some videos showing the more complex evidences for evolution:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i1fGkFuHIu0&desktop_uri=/watch?v=i1fGkFuHIu0
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-CvX_mD5weM
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K11knFKqW4s
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eblrphIwoJQ

There is SO much more on this subject that can easily be found by simply doing a google search.

For you to learn more about the theory and the science behind it is incumbent upon you to do so. Much of what you think about evolution is actually misconceptions, mischaracterizations, caricatures, and oversimplifications. I personally swear to you that on this subject you are either misinformed or uninformed and that by learning more about it the world will become a far more complex place than you currently think it is. I can tell you are an intelligent person and it isn't hard for me to believe that you would be interested in this subject if you'll only give it a real, authentic, genuine chance with an open mind.

I would love to have a discussion if you still have questions.






How about you prove how intimately you understand same by giving a few examples of one species being documented as changing into another.

There is far more evidence of that than there is of Creationism. Please site a few examples of a species being created from scratch by a deity.

Since a deity is an integral part of creationism or ID, how about providing actual scientific evidence of the existence of a deity.
 
It might be true for Aldous Huxley but for the other 99.999% of the lefties running around today, they only care that it upsets fundamentalist Christians.

I may post a more extensive explanation.

I don't guarantee that you'll get it.....
 
Hey, PC.

Instead of taking on your points one by one, I will post here places where one can find more information on the subject because I can see from your posts that you don't fully grasp the theory nor the facts about evolution.

From the Smithsonian Institute regarding human evolution:
Human Evolution Evidence | The Smithsonian Institution's Human Origins Program

From UC Berkely, the evidence for evolution:
What is the evidence for evolution?

A quick guide to some of the evidence for evolution:
Five Proofs of Evolution | Evolution FAQ

29 evidences for macroevolution:
29+ Evidences for Macroevolution: The Scientific Case for Common Descent

Some videos showing the more complex evidences for evolution:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i1fGkFuHIu0&desktop_uri=/watch?v=i1fGkFuHIu0
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-CvX_mD5weM
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K11knFKqW4s
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eblrphIwoJQ

There is SO much more on this subject that can easily be found by simply doing a google search.

For you to learn more about the theory and the science behind it is incumbent upon you to do so. Much of what you think about evolution is actually misconceptions, mischaracterizations, caricatures, and oversimplifications. I personally swear to you that on this subject you are either misinformed or uninformed and that by learning more about it the world will become a far more complex place than you currently think it is. I can tell you are an intelligent person and it isn't hard for me to believe that you would be interested in this subject if you'll only give it a real, authentic, genuine chance with an open mind.

I would love to have a discussion if you still have questions.






How about you prove how intimately you understand same by giving a few examples of one species being documented as changing into another.

There is far more evidence of that than there is of Creationism. Please site a few examples of a species being created from scratch by a deity.

Since a deity is an integral part of creationism or ID, how about providing actual scientific evidence of the existence of a deity.



Why is that incumbent on creationists?

They don't make the same claims as the pseudo-science evolutionists.


You seem to be clueless as to what is necessary to be a believer in the deity.....faith is all that is necessary for a believer.

Now, if Darwinian evolution is science.....it requires more than faith.
Unfortunately....it has naught but faith supporting same.

There is no evidence of one species changing into another.

Get it?
 
How about you prove how intimately you understand same by giving a few examples of one species being documented as changing into another.

There is far more evidence of that than there is of Creationism. Please site a few examples of a species being created from scratch by a deity.

Since a deity is an integral part of creationism or ID, how about providing actual scientific evidence of the existence of a deity.



Why is that incumbent on creationists?

They don't make the same claims as the pseudo-science evolutionists.


You seem to be clueless as to what is necessary to be a believer in the deity.....faith is all that is necessary for a believer.

Now, if Darwinian evolution is science.....it requires more than faith.
Unfortunately....it has naught but faith supporting same.

There is no evidence of one species changing into another.

Get it?

Both creationism and ID are predicated on the existence of a deity. Without any actual scientific evidence of such a deity, they both fold.

The central idea in evolution is mutation, and that has been well documented.

I understand that faith is all that is necessary for a believer. But we are not talking about being a believer. We are discussing what is taught in a science class in a public school.
 
There is far more evidence of that than there is of Creationism. Please site a few examples of a species being created from scratch by a deity.

Since a deity is an integral part of creationism or ID, how about providing actual scientific evidence of the existence of a deity.



Why is that incumbent on creationists?

They don't make the same claims as the pseudo-science evolutionists.


You seem to be clueless as to what is necessary to be a believer in the deity.....faith is all that is necessary for a believer.

Now, if Darwinian evolution is science.....it requires more than faith.
Unfortunately....it has naught but faith supporting same.

There is no evidence of one species changing into another.

Get it?

Both creationism and ID are predicated on the existence of a deity. Without any actual scientific evidence of such a deity, they both fold.

The central idea in evolution is mutation, and that has been well documented.

I understand that faith is all that is necessary for a believer. But we are not talking about being a believer. We are discussing what is taught in a science class in a public school.



You're trying to change the subject?

So....that means I win?



The discussion is not about whether or not there is a deity....

...unless you posted in the wrong thread.

The issue is whether or not Darwinian evolution is science...and, since most folks- or even many folks- don't believe it is, whether it should be included in discussion of other explanations for the multiplicity of life.


Note....I put it in education, not religion.


So....ya' throwin' in the towel?
 

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