Proposed Gov. Health Plan Pays For Elective Surgery; Abortion

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by Eightball, Aug 30, 2009.

  1. Eightball
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    Eightball Senior Member

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    Hello there folks. Whether your for or against abortion, isn't abortion "elective" surgery. Sure it's much more important that an "tummy tuck", but is the government proposing to pay for "elective surgery". After all pregnancy isn't a disease nor a tumor, nor is it life threatening in the greatest majority of cases.

    I can see that if the mother's life is at threat with carrying out a pregnancy, there is a definite ethical decision here, but if the unborn baby is an "inconvenience" i.e........"I'll have ugly stretch marks!", or "I don't want anyone to know I was stupid and got knocked up.", etc, etc.....;aren't these in the realm of "Oh, my tummy is way too flabby, I need a tummy tuck", or "My breast are too small", or "To big", or "My butt is saggy, I need a fuller butt to look sexy."

    Think about it folks. Stopping a normal life function of the human body..i.e carrying a human being to birth and emergence into the world is a indeed normal, and not a disease. To stop that process is "elective", in 99.9999% percent of cases.

    Now as for the "mental stability" defense to end a pregnancy, that is the most lame, self centered, decision.

    One is not under most cases "forced" to open their legs and let this happen. It involved a God given gift that mankind is endowed with; "free will". If one transcends that "free will" element, they don't relinquish "personal responsibility".

    Nowadays, there is an attitude of "Me, Myself, and I". Magazines like "Self" are indictative of the slowly eroding ethics that looked upon unborn human life as special.

    We have slowly devalued unborn human life, but term it a "Fetus" and not an "unborn baby". We go to such lengths to try and scientifically decide when this human life really is "human". Does it have a fully developed nervous system? Can it live on it's own without adult-human intervention? Actually, 2 year olds would have the death sentence upon their lives without adult-human intervention for their care.

    We are one of the very few animal species that need close-guarded care for many years before we can adequately fend on our own.

    YET, we term the unborn unfit and qualified for euthanizing because they can't live without intervention.
    *******
    So is abortion in most cases "elective" and does the government at this time actually support and pay for this "elective" surgery? Yes they do, through their support of Planned Parenthood, that overtly says they encourage pregnancy counseling, but "covertly" encourage the termination of pregnancy, in lieu of adoption.

    Adoption: Do you realize how many married couples that are barren due to physiological problems, and would love to be parents?

    Do you realize that most of these parents must go outside the United States and pay exorbitant amounts of money to find a child to adopt? Adoption is also elective folks.

    Think about it, your pregnant, your unwed, your embarrassed, but you do have a chance to turn this bad judgement and pregnancy into a "victory" and blessing for barren couples. Instead, most opt to abort, and you know that Planned Parenthood encourages that choice/decision over going full term, and then "blessing" a barren couple.

    The Foster Care system is loaded to the gills will adoptable kids, that come from the most horrendous home life, if you can really call it a "home". In most cases barren couples and couples who aren't barren but want to adopt can go the the Foster system, save much money, and have a "closed" adoption worked out. The Foster system often will provide medical insurance for that adopted Foster child until age 18, with some excellent medical coverage!

    Seems that the generations of the yesteryears, thought about others over themselves, and would make life saving sacrifices to enhance or further other lives over their own.

    This is not the case in general nowadays. Just take a drive during work hours on your busy Interstate, turnpike, or freeway, and you'll see what I mean. It's a free-for-all! People don't yeild a bit to let merging cars into the main flow of traffic. Folks tailgate others at life threatening closeness to the other's bumper, when they can in most cased go around.

    Can still remember that Disney cartoon years ago of "Goofy" as an average family man. He kissed his wife and children, got his briefcase, and went out the door to his car, and then the transformation happened. He turned into the rudest, road-maniac alive; honking at anyone that didn't get on it quickly at a green light, cutting in and out of lanes on the freeway in order to gain 3 seconds of arrival time advantage at work.............I.E. I find that when folks get behind the wheel, the true reflection fo that person's inner character is revealed. Red light running is epidemic here in the S.F. bay area. Hollywood stops at stop signs is as common as breathing air. There is a flaunting of an and all authority in our latest generations. Baby boomers as myself are just as bad, and probably helped propagate this in our progeny.

    Last of a it seems that this selfish human syndrome seems to inversely parallel the drop off in church attendance.

    When out for a drive on a Sunday, the vast majority of occupants in other cars were folks going to their local houses of worship; Catholic, Protestant, and non-aligned places to give God a moment in their lives.

    Churches were the bastions of ethics teachings, and as attendance has diminished, ethics overall in our country have slowing been eroded down to nearly nothing.

    One has to be very blind to not see a connection.
    ******
    For those who fear backyard abortions by unsavory people; remember that the choice is not with the beastly person, but with the one who is pregnant.

    American has to learn about "owning up" to personal responsiblity. We are currently in these town meetings calling our representatives on the carpet. We need, also to call ourselves on the carpet too.
    *****
    Abortion is not a Constitutional Right nor Priviledge. It is "elective" and you folks know it that want to fight back. Pregnancy is a nuisance, not a blessing, it puts a "kink" in one's free-floating lifestyle.

    I can't think of anything more important in life, than bringing a human being to birth, and a chance to prove all the naysayers out there that it/this child does have a chance to be a greater contributor to our society.

    Beethoven comes to mind. Under nowadays ethics or lack there-of, he was a prime candidate for being euthanized.

    We must finally realize that we indeed are playing God, when we terminate a human life, not a blob of human tissue.

    Unborn babies must be de-humanized to protect those that take the abortion plunge from realizing the true magnitude of their decisions.
    **********
    Elective it is in my book. One doesn't have to be a Christian, or any other religion member to know that human life is special whether it's still being knitted in the womb or has been officially born to the oxygen-breathing world.
    *******
     
  2. iagainsti
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    iagainsti Member

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    I'm a little bit confused as to what the point of this is. If you're main point was to argue that abortion is an elective procedure...well, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who would argue against that. Of course it's elective (in most cases, anyway). What was your point in proving that?

    [quote="Eightball";1469193]Adoption: Do you realize how many married couples that are barren due to physiological problems, and would love to be parents?[/quote]
    Yes, and a great many of them ignore the huge numbers of children available for adoption and instead opt to undergo procedures like in-vitro fertilization, which oftentimes involves a procedure in which excess embryos are extracted and discarded in order to increase the chances of survival of the remaining embryos and avoid multiple births (sounds a lot like abortion to me).

    [quote="Eightball";1469193]Do you realize that most of these parents must go outside the United States and pay exorbitant amounts of money to find a child to adopt? Adoption is also elective folks.[/quote]
    You directly contradict this statement when you mention the huge numbers of children in the foster care system who aren't being adopted. Obviously there are plenty of opportunities for adoption available in the United States, these children just aren't being adopted. Why? Because people want to adopt babies rather than older children, or children of a certain ethnicity, or they turn to procedures like in-vitro fertilization, which I mentioned above, rather than adopt.

    So, part of your argument against abortion is that adoption is a better option. I would agree, if there weren't, as you mentioned, already plenty of kids in foster homes waiting to be adopted but unable to find homes. You brought up this point yourself. So why bring another child into the world when there are already so many without homes?

    I'm not trying to argue in favor of abortion here, but rather to bring up a point that you seem to have missed in your argument against it...and also, again, to find out the point of your post. Was it meant to be one big argument against abortion, or to prove that abortion is elective, or what?
     
  3. Luissa
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    Luissa Annoying Customer Supporting Member

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    medicare pays for viagra and penis pumps, but god forbid they pay for something the women might need.
     
  4. KittenKoder
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    KittenKoder Senior Member

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    It fucking sucks, the surgeries I need to make myself better are not covered, they'll buy diapers or do minor surgery (which won't help according to the doctors) ... but heaven forbid they actually cover something that fixes the problem and saves them money as well. But yeah, if a damned man can't get laid they bend over backwards for them.
     
  5. Care4all
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    Care4all Warrior Princess Supporting Member

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    Why does your header say PROPOSED gvt Health Plan?

    YOu SAID in your post that our gvt is supporting planned parenthood now....and this is why YOU SAY that our gvt is paying for this elective surgery now...so what is it?

    we do not pay for abortions with tax dollars eightball....IT IS AGAINST THE LAW to do such so this is a bit of a fake outrage that others have convinced you to believe....

    supporting planned parenthood financially for women's health and family planning....IS NOT GIVING MONEY TOWARDS ABORTION with our tax dollars and killing planned parenthood would be tragic and a sin to leave women who have no other means to stay healthly via gyno check ups, pap smears etc...with no place to go.

    Planned parenthood accounts for less than 1/5 of the abortions done in this country today....WHAT about the other 4/5's of them...where is the rest of your hit list Eightball? Where are the other 4/5ths of the women getting their abortions if not in a planned parenthood clinic? ANSWER: Their own doctor's office, their gyno;s office.... so is it the POOR that you want to stop from having abortions only? Or is it the poor that are the only sinners in this crisis? WHY go after their resources for women's health services when it is the ONLY MEANS for the poor?
     
  6. Luissa
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    Luissa Annoying Customer Supporting Member

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    we have state funded abortions in washington.
     
  7. Care4all
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    Care4all Warrior Princess Supporting Member

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    Yes and other States do as well, but NO FEDERAL TAX DOLLARS can ever be appropriated to fund abortion, this IS THE LAW...If your state decides that they want to help it's up to them to use their state tax dollars to do such....just because your citizens of your state agree to this doesn't mean those in another state would or wants their own tax dollars going for it.... if your state citizens do not mind your state from using their money to pay for abortions for the poor then I HAVE NO SAY IN IT, being from another state....

    If your state used my federal tax dollars for abortion which I disagree with, then they would be breaking the Law on the books that says no Federal Funding can be used to pay for abortions.

    So this is ALL FAUX OUTRAGE made up by some nutters to get the Prolifers riled up for political purposes ONLY and eightball, who is a fantastic poster on explaining religious stuff and other things, is being used as a pawn, a political pawn in THIS circumstance, imo.
     
  8. John Lemmon
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    John Lemmon BANNED

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    care :cuckoo:, don't people who have abortions pay taxes too?
     
  9. Care4all
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    Care4all Warrior Princess Supporting Member

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    the people who would even qualify to get one for free, or paid for by the government probably do not pay any federal income taxes. They probably do pay sales taxes and stuff like that which the State gvt collects.

    It is ALREADY against the law for our federal government to pay for abortions and this is how it should stay....if you feel it is important to have gvt pay for abortions for the poorest, then have YOUR STATE gvt do such, where your state citizen has a say democratically and closer to the issue at hand.
     
  10. John Lemmon
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    John Lemmon BANNED

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    So you're admitting that I'm right? WOW!

    You're just against abortion period, and against a woman's right to choose for her own body, that's sad for womanhood that other women would let men choose what they do with their own bodies.
     

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