Progressives Explain the Economy #1: How High taxes create jobs

[TakeAStepBack]

The solution isn't taxes, it is to prepare for an alien invasion.

Paul Krugman: Prepare For Alien Invasion -- And Spend Our Way To Economic Recovery

Economist Paul Krugman has a simple solution to America's economic woes: Prepare for an alien invasion.

Arguing that the United States successfully ended the Great Depression with government spending, he provided an interesting idea about how to replicate that economic feat on Tuesday at the Take Back the American Dream conference in Washington, D.C.

"If you actually look at what took us out of the Great Depression," the Princeton University professor said in an interview with Chris Hayes of MSNBC. "It was Europe's entry into World War II and the U.S. buildup that began in advance."

"So if we could get something that could cause the government to say, ‘Oh, never mind those budget things; let’s just spend and do a bunch of stuff.' So my fake threat from space aliens is the other route,” Krugman said before a laughing crowd. “I’ve been proposing that.”



The Princeton professor and New York Times columnist is a well-known fan of science fiction, which might explain his imaginative plan to spur an economic recovery.

Krugman has offered up his space alien proposal before. Last year he told CNN about a "Twilight Zone" episode in which "scientists fake an alien threat in order to achieve world peace." He told CNN, "Well, this time ... we need it in order to get some fiscal stimulus."

ROFLMAO!!!

 

[TakeAStepBack]

And this is a LOLberals go-to man for economic advice.

 

[Oddball]

The solution isn't taxes, it is to prepare for an alien invasion.

Paul Krugman: Prepare For Alien Invasion -- And Spend Our Way To Economic Recovery

Economist Paul Krugman has a simple solution to America's economic woes: Prepare for an alien invasion.

Arguing that the United States successfully ended the Great Depression with government spending, he provided an interesting idea about how to replicate that economic feat on Tuesday at the Take Back the American Dream conference in Washington, D.C.

"If you actually look at what took us out of the Great Depression," the Princeton University professor said in an interview with Chris Hayes of MSNBC. "It was Europe's entry into World War II and the U.S. buildup that began in advance."

"So if we could get something that could cause the government to say, ‘Oh, never mind those budget things; let’s just spend and do a bunch of stuff.' So my fake threat from space aliens is the other route,” Krugman said before a laughing crowd. “I’ve been proposing that.”



The Princeton professor and New York Times columnist is a well-known fan of science fiction, which might explain his imaginative plan to spur an economic recovery.

Krugman has offered up his space alien proposal before. Last year he told CNN about a "Twilight Zone" episode in which "scientists fake an alien threat in order to achieve world peace." He told CNN, "Well, this time ... we need it in order to get some fiscal stimulus."

ROFLMAO!!!

Ole Ferret Face became noting more than an overeducated stand-up tragicomic since the moment he tried to put a happy face on 9/11™, as a twisted form economic stimulus.

How the guy has any credibility on anything anymore is beyond me.

 

[Rshermr]

Higher taxes does not bring in much revenue.
France raised their's and look what happened. The wealthy moved away.
They did this the last time they elected a socialist and they did the same thing back then too.
France's proposed tax hikes spark 'exodus' of wealthy - Telegraph

It will happen here too.
Anytime you lower tax rates and red tape, it brings in more wealthy people and your receive more revenue.
Why you should pack your bags and move to Singapore - Business Insider

So, peach, as an economic guru, perhaps you can explain the following:
1. The great republican depression of 1929 saw unemployment rise from 4% to over 25% while the repubs watched. But unemployment went down with new taxes and stimulus spending.
2. Reagan lowered tax rates greatly in 1981, but by 1982 unemployment climed to the highest it has ever been since the great depression.
3. After the unemployment rate climbed to new highs in 1982, Reagan raised taxes 11 times and unemployment decreased substantially.
4. Clinton raised tax rates at the beginning of his presidency and we had the first surplus and the strongest economy in decades.
5. Bush W decreased taxes as soon as he could, in a good economy, and we had the worst crash in years.

Actually in 1929, FDR watched. Hoover asked, begged FDR to help but FDR just sailed on vacation. The transition did not occur until March in those days and ruthless Progressive FDR couldn't be bothered with helping.

Well, crusader, my poor con tool, you have a problem with this statement:

Actually in 1929, FDR watched. Hoover asked, begged FDR to help but FDR just sailed on vacation. The transition did not occur until March in those days and ruthless Progressive FDR couldn't be bothered with helping.

You see, if Hoover was begging FDR for help, that would have been 4 years before he took office. FDR was president from March, as you said, but of 1933. He was not elected until November of 1932. So, you may want to make up some new lies to try. Try looking up the dates, just to get a timeline, so that your lies are harder to debunk. You see, Roosevelt was, in 1929, Governor of New York. Which is a state. And, as is normal, the President, then Hoover, a republican as you may remember (which is why they call it the great republican depression of 1929), would not be asking help from a Governor. Which is why, you see, he did not. And why it is so easy to point out that you are lying. Again.

 

[Rshermr]

Only if you're a fucking retard.

Must be easy for you, eh? Since, as a con tool, you ARE a retard.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

I've told you before, and I'll say it one more time and maybe it will stick to the fly trap that is your brain. I'm not a conservative.

 

[Rshermr]

I've told you before, and I'll say it one more time and maybe it will stick to the fly trap that is your brain. I'm not a conservative.

And you know how much I value your opinion.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Yawn.

 

[eflatminor]

Only if you're a fucking retard.

Must be easy for you, eh? Since, as a con tool, you ARE a retard.

You think he's a Conservative? Somebody needs a dictionary

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So, peach, as an economic guru, perhaps you can explain the following:
1. The great republican depression of 1929 saw unemployment rise from 4% to over 25% while the repubs watched. But unemployment went down with new taxes and stimulus spending.
2. Reagan lowered tax rates greatly in 1981, but by 1982 unemployment climed to the highest it has ever been since the great depression.
3. After the unemployment rate climbed to new highs in 1982, Reagan raised taxes 11 times and unemployment decreased substantially.
4. Clinton raised tax rates at the beginning of his presidency and we had the first surplus and the strongest economy in decades.
5. Bush W decreased taxes as soon as he could, in a good economy, and we had the worst crash in years.

Actually in 1929, FDR watched. Hoover asked, begged FDR to help but FDR just sailed on vacation. The transition did not occur until March in those days and ruthless Progressive FDR couldn't be bothered with helping.

Well, crusader, my poor con tool, you have a problem with this statement:

Actually in 1929, FDR watched. Hoover asked, begged FDR to help but FDR just sailed on vacation. The transition did not occur until March in those days and ruthless Progressive FDR couldn't be bothered with helping.

You see, if Hoover was begging FDR for help, that would have been 4 years before he took office. FDR was president from March, as you said, but of 1933. He was not elected until November of 1932. So, you may want to make up some new lies to try. Try looking up the dates, just to get a timeline, so that your lies are harder to debunk. You see, Roosevelt was, in 1929, Governor of New York. Which is a state. And, as is normal, the President, then Hoover, a republican as you may remember (which is why they call it the great republican depression of 1929), would not be asking help from a Governor. Which is why, you see, he did not. And why it is so easy to point out that you are lying. Again.

Right I meant 1933, FDR watched Hoover asked for help during the transition. I get ahead of myself sometimes.

The idea that "unemployment went down with new taxes and stimulus spending" never happened

 

[Rshermr]

Actually in 1929, FDR watched. Hoover asked, begged FDR to help but FDR just sailed on vacation. The transition did not occur until March in those days and ruthless Progressive FDR couldn't be bothered with helping.

Well, crusader, my poor con tool, you have a problem with this statement:

Actually in 1929, FDR watched. Hoover asked, begged FDR to help but FDR just sailed on vacation. The transition did not occur until March in those days and ruthless Progressive FDR couldn't be bothered with helping.

You see, if Hoover was begging FDR for help, that would have been 4 years before he took office. FDR was president from March, as you said, but of 1933. He was not elected until November of 1932. So, you may want to make up some new lies to try. Try looking up the dates, just to get a timeline, so that your lies are harder to debunk. You see, Roosevelt was, in 1929, Governor of New York. Which is a state. And, as is normal, the President, then Hoover, a republican as you may remember (which is why they call it the great republican depression of 1929), would not be asking help from a Governor. Which is why, you see, he did not. And why it is so easy to point out that you are lying. Again.

Right I meant 1933, FDR watched Hoover asked for help during the transition. I get ahead of myself sometimes.

The idea that "unemployment went down with new taxes and stimulus spending" never happened

which. Taxes and stimulus spending, or the unemployment rate decreasing?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Well, crusader, my poor con tool, you have a problem with this statement:

You see, if Hoover was begging FDR for help, that would have been 4 years before he took office. FDR was president from March, as you said, but of 1933. He was not elected until November of 1932. So, you may want to make up some new lies to try. Try looking up the dates, just to get a timeline, so that your lies are harder to debunk. You see, Roosevelt was, in 1929, Governor of New York. Which is a state. And, as is normal, the President, then Hoover, a republican as you may remember (which is why they call it the great republican depression of 1929), would not be asking help from a Governor. Which is why, you see, he did not. And why it is so easy to point out that you are lying. Again.

Right I meant 1933, FDR watched Hoover asked for help during the transition. I get ahead of myself sometimes.

The idea that "unemployment went down with new taxes and stimulus spending" never happened

which. Taxes and stimulus spending, or the unemployment rate decreasing?

You linked the two together, that taxes and stimulus spending (one thought) lowered unemployment (second thought) and I'm saying that the 20% average unemployment from FDR inauguration in 33 until Hitlers conquest of France says you're wrong

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The idea that "unemployment went down[under FDR] with new taxes and stimulus spending" never happened

Damn straight it didn't, it was a depression!!!


Here's what Henry Morgenthau, FDR's Secretary of the Treasury (the man who desperately needed the New Deal to succeed as much as Roosevelt) said about the New Deal stimulus: "We have tried spending money.We are spending more than we ever have spent before and it does not work... We have never made good on our promises...I say after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started... And an enormous debt to boot!"

"The New Republic"( at the time a FDR greatest supporter") noted. In June 1939, the federal public works programs still supported almost 19 million people, nearly 15% of the population" [page 313]

In fact in 1939, unemployment was at 17%, and there were 11 million additional in stimulus make work welfare jobs. Today when the population is 2.5 times greater we have only 8 million unemployed. Conclusion: legislation to make Democrats illegal
is urgently needed

 

[Rshermr]

So, as I said:
Well, crusader, my poor con tool, you have a problem with this statement:

Actually in 1929, FDR watched. Hoover asked, begged FDR to help but FDR just sailed on vacation. The transition did not occur until March in those days and ruthless Progressive FDR couldn't be bothered with helping.

You see, if Hoover was begging FDR for help, that would have been 4 years before he took office. FDR was president from March, as you said, but of 1933. He was not elected until November of 1932. So, you may want to make up some new lies to try. Try looking up the dates, just to get a timeline, so that your lies are harder to debunk. You see, Roosevelt was, in 1929, Governor of New York. Which is a state. And, as is normal, the President, then Hoover, a republican as you may remember (which is why they call it the great republican depression of 1929), would not be asking help from a Governor. Which is why, you see, he did not. And why it is so easy to point out that you are lying. Again.
And Crusader, trying to avoid being caught in a lie, comes up with more lies:

Right I meant 1933, FDR watched Hoover asked for help during the transition. I get ahead of myself sometimes.

Here, Crusader is twisting all over trying to change what he said in his first lie. To a new lie.
Though, because he is having problems extricating himself from his lie, his sentence makes no real sense. But the fact is, neither hoover nor fdr asked the other for any help. Which is why crusader has no proof of what he said. Because, of course, it did not happen.
Then Crusader tries to change the subject to a new piece of deception. The great con lie.
Crusader said:

The idea that "unemployment went down with new taxes and stimulus spending" never happened

So, I asked the following:
which. Taxes and stimulus spending, or the unemployment rate decreasing?
To which Crusader again states the con lie.

You linked the two together, that taxes and stimulus spending (one thought) lowered unemployment (second thought) and I'm saying that the 20% average unemployment from FDR inauguration in 33 until Hitlers conquest of France says you're wrong

Which he, and a few con economists agree with, but which the great majority of economists do not. You see, the majority of economists believe that the economy would have continued going in the direction it was going when Hoover finally raised tax rates, and FDR became and began deficit spending in earnest. So, here is a timeline from an independent source:

1932
This and the next year are the worst years of the Great Depression. For 1932, GNP falls a record 13.4 percent; unemployment rises to 23.6 percent.
Industrial stocks have lost 80 percent of their value since 1930.
10,000 banks have failed since 1929, or 40 percent of the 1929 total.
About $2 billion in deposits have been lost since 1929.
Money supply has contracted 31 percent since 1929.
GNP has also fallen 31 percent since 1929.
Over 13 million Americans have lost their jobs since 1929.
Capital growth investments have dropped from $16.2 billion to 1/3 of one billion since 1929.
Farm prices have fallen 53 percent since 1929.
International trade has fallen by two-thirds since 1929.
The Fed makes its first major expansion of the money supply since February 1930.
Congress creates the Reconstruction Finance Corporation.
Congress passes the Federal Home Loan Bank Act and the Glass-Steagall Act of 1932.
Top tax rate is raised from 25 to 63 percent.
Franklin Roosevelt easily defeats Hoover in the fall election. Democrats win control of Congress.

So, here was your dream, Crusader. No increases in tax rates, no stimulus spending, just repubs trying to starve the depression to death. Over 3 years of misery for the american public while nothing was done, until finally, in late 1932, even Hoover could see he had to raise taxes to support stimulus spending. So, the unemployment is over 23 percent. From only 3.2% in early 1929. So, the great republican belief in laissez-faire economics is not working real well, one could say.

1933
Roosevelt inaugurated; begins "First 100 Days" of intensive legislative activity.
A third banking panic occurs in March. Roosevelt declares a Bank Holiday; closes financial institutions to stop a run on banks.
Congress authorizes creation of the Agricultural Adjustment Administration, the Civilian Conservation Corps, the Farm Credit Administration, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, the Federal Emergency Relief Administration, the National Recovery Administration, the Public Works Administration and the Tennessee Valley Authority.
Congress passes the Emergency Banking Bill, the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, the Farm Credit Act, the National Industrial Recovery Act and the Truth-in-Securities Act.
U.S. goes off the gold standard.
Roosevelt does much to redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor.
The free fall of the GNP is significantly slowed; it dips only 2.1 percent this year. Unemployment rises slightly, to 24.9 percent.

So, stimulus spending begins. And, the depression slows. Watch for a pattern here, Crusader. After only 9 months on the job(yup, presidential administrations started in late March then, and did not change to January until later).

1934
Congress authorizes creation of the Federal Communications Commission, the National Mediation Board and the Securities and Exchange Commission.
Congress passes the Securities and Exchange Act and the Trade Agreement Act.
The economy turns around: GNP rises 7.7 percent, andunemployment falls to 21.7 percent[.

More spending, and unemployment decreases. Less than 2 years after stimulus spending began, unemployment is down by over 3%.

1935
Congress authorizes creation of the Works Progress Administration, the National Labor Relations Board and the Rural Electrification Administration.
Congress passes the Banking Act of 1935, the Emergency Relief Appropriation Act, the National Labor Relations Act, and the Social Security Act.
Economic recovery continues: the GNP grows another 8.1 percent, and unemployment falls to 20.1 percent.

More stimulus spending, and more decreases in the unemployment rate. Damn, this stimulus thing is starting to take hold.

1936
The Supreme Court declares part of the Agricultural Adjustment Act to be unconstitutional.
In response, Congress passes the Soil Conservation and Domestic Allotment Act.
Top tax rate raised to 79 percent.
Economic recovery continues: GNP grows a record 14.1 percent; unemployment falls to 16.9 percent.

1937
Economists attribute economic growth so far to heavy government spending that is somewhat deficit. Roosevelt, however, fears an unbalanced budget and cuts spending for 1937. That summer, the nation plunges into another recession. Despite this, the yearly GNP rises 5.0 percent, and unemployment falls to 14.3 percent.

So, Roosevelt makes the mistake of slowing stimulus spending, and is about to pay for it.
But, unemployment is now down to 14.3% Yup, stimulus is working. Lets see what happens next year now that the stimulus was slowed.

1938
Congress passes the Agricultural Adjustment Act of 1938 and the Fair Labor Standards Act.
No major New Deal legislation is passed after this date, due to Roosevelt's weakened political power.
The year-long recession makes itself felt: the GNP falls 4.5 percent, and unemployment rises to 19.0 percent.
Britain becomes the third nation to recover as it begins deficit spending in preparation for war.

So, there you go. Roosevelt learned that if you slow stimulus during high unemployment, recovery stops. Bad move.

1939
GNP rises 7.9 percent; unemployment falls to 17.2 percent.
The United States will begin emerging from the Depression as it borrows and spends $1 billion to build its armed forces. From 1939 to 1941, when the Japanese attack Pearl Harbor, U.S. manufacturing will have shot up a phenomenal 50 percent!

So, more stimulus and lower employment again. Then the biggest of all stimulus programs, WWII.

1945
Although the war is the largest tragedy in human history, the
United States emerges as the world's only economic superpower. Deficit spending has resulted in a national debt 123 percent the size of the GDP. By contrast, in 1994, the $4.7 trillion national debt will be only 70 percent of the GDP!
The top tax rate is 91 percent. It will stay at least 88 percent until 1963, when it is lowered to 70 percent. During this time, America will experience the greatest economic boom it has ever known.

So, if you paid attention, increased stimulus meant better economy, less stimulus meant worse economy. And, if you noticed, the top tax rate was really, really high from 1945 until it was lowered by Kennedy during good economic times. As it was prior, during the Eisenhower administration, also during good economic times. And rational people wonder why repubs are so concerned about a 4% increased tax rate on the wealthy, based on this kind of history. Isn't the truth liberating??

 

[Rshermr]

looks like Rshermr is spanking every rw'r in Franks thread

I don't see how you think that.
The rw's are spanking Rshermr with facts

Actually, I have seen no facts. Perhaps you would like to enlighten me. What facts am I missing. And where are your facts, con tool?? If you are wondering, con tool is synonymous with dipshit.

 

[Oddball]

Almost every one of your "facts" are based upon the post-hoc-ergo-propeter-hoc logical fallacy, rather than any sound economic theory.

Prolly best you clean out your own backyard before busting on anyone else for lack of factual basis.

 

[eflatminor]

So, if you paid attention, increased stimulus meant better economy, less stimulus meant worse economy.

Interesting your analysis of the economic situation during the 30s compares unemployment rates between 15 and 25 percent. While you attempt to prove what level of theft/redistribution was needed, you overlook the very real possibility that ALL of those absolutely shitty unemployment numbers were brought about by the very government meddling you champion. Think about it. During other economic downturns in which stimulus was not used as a tool to attempt to fix the situation, we recovered quickly. During the 30s, we spend ungodly amounts of other people's money and remain in depression for over a decade. Your conclusion? We just didn't spend enough. Consider please, just once, that maybe all that "stimulus" actually created the situation for prolonged misery and across the board high unemployment, regardless of how it might have varied over time.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I think it's hilarious that someone highlights "Unemployment falls to 19%" after 5 whole years of FDR economics and thinks thats a success.

It's plain fucking retarded

 

[eflatminor]

I think it's hilarious that someone highlights "Unemployment falls to 19%" after 5 whole years of FDR economics and thinks thats a success.

It's plain fucking retarded

Succinctly put...well said...yes!

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

So, if you paid attention, increased stimulus meant better economy,

1) So the Great Depression was a a better economy?? This is a perfect example of the liberal IQ!!


2) how could a government stimulus possibly help the economy when it sucks money out of the private economy that is 100% responsible for economic growth. Liberal bureaucrats didn't invent the new products that got us from the stone age to here.