Presidnt Obama Abandonin Americn Princples On Libya!

Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by JimofPennsylvan, Mar 17, 2011.

  1. JimofPennsylvan
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    JimofPennsylvan VIP Member

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    It is shocking the way President Obama is leading America on Libya, we are abandoning the Libyan people which is a terrible terrible course of action! The anti-U.S. military involvement voices in America try to characterize this Libyan issue as a complex issue using this complexity to cloud the compelling case for U.S. military involvement but this is wrong! The legitimate reasoning on this issue is simple and compelling calls for U.S. "air power" military action.

    The right analytical framework on Libya is the following. The leader of Libya Moammar Gadhafi has been in power for forty-two years he is a mentally unstable, brutal dictator. He has used murder, torture, corruption and an extensive spy network on his own people to stay in power. He has been a poor leader of the Libyan people not bringing the prosperity, education, medical care and standard of living the Libyan people should have. The country of Libya has a large amount of oil and natural gas wealth, any type of government that could legitimately claim to be good would be giving ordinary Libyans a much better standard of living and quality of life than they currently have. These are extraordinary times where populations in countries throughout the world especially in the greater Middle East are standing up against their existing government authority and saying we want our political rights we want democracy and the better standard of living it offers hope for; America should fully support these times. Ordinary Libyans have revolted this way, the world has seen Libyan cabinet officials and high Libyan military officers defect to the anti-Gadhafi forces. The current unfolding of events are such though that Colonel Gadhafi has decided not to step down from power but rather to fight to regain control of the country, he unfortunately has enormous wealth which he has used to hire mercenaries and maintain the loyalty of certain Libyan tribes and he still controls the strongest and most well equipped military units in the Libyan Army all of which he is using to push back the over matched in weapons and training rebel forces.

    The straightforward virtuous analysis for the America people here is that the Libyan people that have revolted are just looking for their fundamental rights they are just looking to build a democratic peaceful country, the principles that are the essence of America! Many of these Libyan people like former members of the Libyan government have put everything on the line if the revolution fails they will likely be killed or face many years of incarceration and face torture. The only thing these anti-Gadhafi forces need from us is for America to use its military air power for at most two to three years in Libya to stop Gadhafi from using his airplanes, tank and artillery units from taking Libyan rebel held Libyan cities, these Libyan rebels do not need one U.S. soldier to put one foot on Libyan soil - they just need the U.S. to buy them some time so they can build a military with tank and artillery units to hold Gadhafi forces off. Just the no-fly zone and bombing his tank and artillery units when they make their assaults on the rebel held cities, these Gadhafi units will be in open desert it will be like a turkey shoot eliminating them. A similar no-fly zone the U.S. did in northern Iraq and the destroying of tank and artillery units the U.S./NATO did in Kosovo, militarily this is not a big strain on the U.S. armed forces. The Arab League has called for international help to help the Libyan people's revolt, we have this valuable cover. European countries like the U.K. and France support military intervention. Ordinary Libyans want Colonel Gadhafi out of power, in the early days of the revolt on Cable TV the American people saw interviews of ordinary Libyans from all walks of Libyan life even in Tripoli and they want Gadhafi gone, he has no legitimacy as a political leader. This dictator Gadhafi in taking rebel held towns is indiscriminately bombing the towns killing innocent civilians he is disregarding universal standards of conduct that an army should follow, armies aren't supposed to randomly bomb civilian inhabited cities and towns without notice and opportunity to flee for the inhabitants, they are supposed to show due care for innocent civilians. These factors make for a compelling case for U.S. "air power" military intervention!

    This waiting by President Obama and his cabinet for a UN resolution authorizing a no-fly zone be established over Libya is pathetic and disgraceful. Security council members Russia and China have veto power over such a resolution and these countries governments are extremely repressive governments, their hands are dirty here - the Obama administration putting its faith in the UN security council here is like a society putting its faith in a jury for a prosecution of a child molester when members of the jury are proven child abusers, its absurd. Time is running out for the Libyan rebels if their not helped very soon they and their allies amongst the Libyan people will be slaughtered, the American people are a high quality people such a people don't wait for international bodies authorization to stop wrongful deaths of a large number of human beings when they have the power to easily stop it, such a people do the right thing and save these human beings and so should the American people here!

    Critics of U.S. military involvement in Libya seem to be heavily focused on how the revolution in Libya has dramatically increased the price of oil because Libya is a significant exporter of oil and the revolution has essentially shut down Libyan oil exports which has caused a lot of pain on the American consumer. And it would seem these critics rationale is that it isn't a bad thing that Colonel Gadhafi will retake control over the entire country of Libya because then he will turn back on the Libyan oil spigot and help bring down world wide oil prices. This is a flawed analysis America shouldn't be selling out its principles to stand up for civil rights for a source of oil. Moreover, Libyan oil exports amount for a small portion of the total world-wide oil production, the world consumes 86 million barrels of oil per day, Libya had before the revolution produced around 2 million barrels and exported 1.6 million barrels per day. In addition, Saudi Arabia has increased their oil production to make-up for the loss of Libyan oil so their has been no loss on world oil supply. Further, for the future Iraq is investing aggressively in increasing oil production with Iraqi reserve levels they could eventually be another Saudi Arabia in terms of oil production. The bottom line their is no reason for America to sell its soul for Libyan oil, America gains very little as it relates to oil in such a sale.

    Critics say it is in America's best interest in Libya to have Gadhafi win in the Libyan conflict against the rebels thus no U.S. military involvement because Gadhafi winning will deter rebellions in other OPEC countries who have a dissatisfied publics because these publics will think there is no practical benefits from an uprising because it won't succeed it will turn out just like Libya. These critics say this maintaining stability in OPEC countries is critical because political instability in these countries could cause skyrocketing world-wide oil prices and derail the economic recovery and even throw the world into an economic recession. Critics further say allowing Gadhafi to implement a brutal crackdown on his own people will encourage and support other authoritarian OPEC governments to implement brutal suppression of uprisings in their country thus providing stability. These critics are foolish because authoritative crack downs have their limits unless governments address legitimate grievances it is only a matter time before the authoritarian government falls. Plus, these critics rationales here are so contrary to America's idealism America's policy decisions are based on principles not ruthless and amoral acquisition and maintaining of power.

    Another major reason for oppositon to U.S. "air power" military intervention in Libya is the Israel concern because if the U.S. does intervening odds are not only will the anti-Gadhafi forces survive but eventually Gadhafi will fall because he will be significantly cut-off from his oil wealth rebel areas will control a lot of it and without that source of revenue he will not be able to buy his political and military support to stay in power. And as stated earlier any type of good government will use Libya's natural resource wealth to turn Libya into a country which provides at least a good standard of living and good quality of life for ordinary Libyans. This prosperous Libya could become a country like Turkey that is a thorn in Israel's side because they call Israel out on Israel's questionable behavior or worse Libya could become a country like Iran that uses its wealth to sponsor terrorism against Israel. This whole line of thinking is backward thinking. It's the faulty logic of the past it's the logic of keep the Arabs and Muslims weak and disorganized so they can't successfully challenge Israel. This is sort of like the backward logic that has existed in America of keep certain communities uneducated because if they become educated they can challenge the communities in power. This logic is stupid on many fronts because keeping a people impoverished creates the environment for Islamic radicalism, jihad, etc. to flourish which practically turns into terrorism. This logic is stupid because if a society prospers its people become educated and they see that the use of violence doesn't offer the hope for peace it is negotiation and compromise that offers the hope for peace. Also, when a people prosper they have a good life and human nature moves such a people to not want to risk losing that with pursuing courses of war against another people. Furthermore, if Libya turns into a prosperous and good country this offers a model of a society that the Palestinian people can have for themselves if they make peace with Israel and the West Bank and the Gaza Strip need money injections to increase the income of ordinary palestinians to lessen the hardship of their lives which a prosperous Libya could provide because as America has witnessed through the years suffering amongst Palestinians fuels hatred of Israelis by Palestinians. The Israel lobby in America may want America not to militarily intercede in Libya but this want isn't in the best interest of the security of the country of Israel or its people!

    The Obama administration is being really foolish in not coming to the aid of the Libyan rebels by providing U.S. air power because it is destroying America's credibility amongst the Arab, Muslim and disempowered people throughout the world. To these people it looks like Obama is not helping Libyan rebels because he wants Libyan and OPEC oil for America and its allies. It also looks like Obama is sacrificing the Libyan rebels for Israel because the unstable Colonel who thus will end up in power poses little practical threat to Israel. Obama should heed that so goes the Libyan rebels without U.S. military assistance in Libya so goes Obama's hope for converting the Hamas Palastinian community into viable partners for peace with Israel and so goes Obama's hope for aiding a popular rebellion in Iran to overthrow the Hitler like leaders in Khameni and Amadinejad. Events can have an effect that lasts for decades and someone of President Obama's age is of the age to appreciate this example when back in the late 1950's Hungary was a satellite country in the hard-core communist bloc of the old Soviet Union and the Hungarian people threw off the yolk of the Soviet communist regime and so what did the Soviets do they sent in troops into Hungary to take back control of the country for the communist and the Hungarian rebels fought the Soviet tanks with molotov cocktails nevertheless the rebellion was brutally surpressed by the Soviets and the reputation of Soviet government brutal suppression of popular revolts lasted for decades. President Obama is playing with like profound repercussions on this Libya matter!
     
  2. Mr. H.
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    Mr. H. Diamond Member

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    Did you really write all that yourself?
     
  3. California Girl
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    California Girl BANNED

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    America has principles?

    Good to know, because, for the past couple of decades, I haven't seen jack shit in the way of evidence.
     
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  4. BrianH
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    BrianH Senior Member

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    Two words: Monroe Doctrine
     
  5. Douger
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    Douger BANNED

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    American "principles" ???
    He didn't abandon them. Gadhafi is doing it for him ! Using the military against civilians. murkin style !!!
     
  6. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    We didn't abandon the Libyan people, we merely sat by and watched as Gaddaffi crushed their revolt.

    And it wasn't JUST the USA it was the whole civilized world.

    Its disgusting that our masters are allowing this to happen.

    So the question is...

    WHY HAS THE CIVILIZED WORLD ALLOWED THIS TO HAPPEN?
     
  7. B. Kidd
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    B. Kidd Gold Member

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    No doubt the world would be better off without Gaddafi. A month ago Libya was not considered a vital U.S. interest. Why now?
     
  8. FuelRod
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    FuelRod Gold Member

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    Why should the Libya situation be any different than everything else that's come down under his watch?
     
  9. High_Gravity
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    High_Gravity Belligerent Drunk Supporting Member

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    If this was Zimbabwe or Uganda instead of oil rich Libya, no one would give a shit.
     

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