Politicians and Palestine

Discussion in 'Israel and Palestine' started by besamaalghussei, Mar 24, 2012.

  1. besamaalghussei
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    besamaalghussei Rookie

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    I work for a government official, a Democrat from Hawaii, and I am so confused as to why people can’t just advocate equally for both parties, especially when it doesn’t affect them at all. It hurts to watch a woman that I respect so much have to pledge allegiance to the Jews in order to finance her campaign. I have heard people say and my boss agree, "the Palestinian refugee problem will be solved outside the borders of Israel" meaning that myself and my family wouldn't be able to return to the land where they lived for 1,500 years. Why is it okay for Jews to return to "their homeland" but it's not okay for the Arabs too? My family is from Jerusalem and what they call "Tel Aviv." They don't want us to return, because then that would threaten their "Jewish" state. Why can't they just have an open pluralistic state and let anyone come live there? They condemn other religious states like Iran, but for some reason it's okay for them to be a religious state?

    It's really hard to listen to these words. They say they are democratic but how they can defend a Jewish right to return and not a Palestinian right to return= that sounds like UNEQUAL RIGHTS to me. And why do the Israeli's have the right to have a military but the Arabs next door don't? They always talk about having unfriendly neighbors, what about the Palestinian peasants, who barely have enough food to feed their families, and the sustanence farmers whose land is taken from them to build settlements? Don't they have unfriendly neighbors too? Don't you think that if you're "neighbor" was able to come and bulldoze your house and not pay you a single penny for it, that you might call that an "unfriendly neighbor" too?
     
  2. SAYIT
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    SAYIT Gold Member

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    Your tone and questions are both measured and reasonable so I will attempt to answer in kind. I believe there will be some repatriation for legit complaintants and compensation for others (90% of Palestinians say they prefer the latter). Israel is not a religious state but rather the Jewish Homeland. The fact that people were wrongly displaced in 1948 is a tragedy and your pain seems genuine. Some Arabs managed to remain in Israel and now constitute about 20% of Israel's citizens. The right of return is tricky because not all who claim that right were actually displaced and some who are legit will not return to be peaceful citizens of Israel.
    Like all countries, Israelis have the right to decide who will and who won't be allowed to enter Israel, much as Saudia Arabians and Iranians do in their countries.
    You clearly have a problem with Israel's existence as, as you say, the "Jewish Homeland" but it is indeed the Jewish Homeland and until you & Israel's neighbors can accept that fact there is little chance your Palestinian brethren will escape their current plight.
    I'm not certain that your boss is required to "pledge allegiance to the Jews" as you claim, unless she is begging funding from pro-Israel sources. Perhaps she could seek pro-Palestinian sources instead. Of course, even with that kind of funding, her constituents may not be willing to elect her.
    I am sorry your family was displaced but that was a rather common occurence following WW2. All post WW2 refugees have found new homes and made new lives. All but the Palestinians.
     
  3. MJB12741
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    MJB12741 Gold Member

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    Please spare me your bleading heart drama over the plight of the Palestinians with their wonderful leaders like Arafat & now Hamas. They are but a bunch of squatters on Israel's ancient land. And only Israel ever made peace offerings to Palestinians, built a security fence & conceded land to them so they can remain in Israel. Face it, no surrounding Arab country, who know the Palestinians best, ever treated them like Israel does. And no surrounding Arab country will even grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands. Tell us please, why is that?


     
  4. hipeter924
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    hipeter924 Not a zombie yet

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    A few words of advice, if you work for a government official don't say so, unless you are prepared to state your name, and create a questionnaire. However if you don't want your identity exposed here it is probably a bad idea, if this exposes personal opinions that you don't want to enter the public sphere, aka the Internet is part of the public sphere. Next time you join a forum you would be better off just asking as a member of the forum, rather than as a member of government as you are more likely to get honest answers.

    1) It hurts to watch a woman that I respect so much have to pledge allegiance to the Jews in order to finance her campaign. I have heard people say and my boss agree, "the Palestinian refugee problem will be solved outside the borders of Israel" meaning that myself and my family wouldn't be able to return to the land where they lived for 1,500 years. Why is it okay for Jews to return to "their homeland" but it's not okay for the Arabs too? My family is from Jerusalem and what they call "Tel Aviv." They don't want us to return, because then that would threaten their "Jewish" state. Why can't they just have an open pluralistic state and let anyone come live there? They condemn other religious states like Iran, but for some reason it's okay for them to be a religious state?

    Thats the political landscape, you have to deal with it, in the end though Israel is not a box that just agrees with itself, there are plenty of small parties within Israel that want a more secular and inclusive society, the difficulty with the return of refugees is that unfortunately the Palestinian territories are full of religious extremists, making negotiations almost impossible aka Hamas and Fatah don't want Israel to exist, and there is not the political will within Israel to support people returning that threaten the existence of Israel (and that is how the refugees are perceived aka as a security risk).

    I wouldn't deny there is a struggle within Israel between religious extremist Jews and secular Jews adhering to the founding principles of the Israeli nation. It is the religious extremists in the government coalition that support the construction of more homes in at risk areas and the expulsion of Arabs, and the military incursions. The settlers as they are called are ordinary families trying to make a living, and the Israeli government offers them land, they accept, and then when a few years down the track the government wants to take the land back for 'peace', they are naturally going to refuse to leave.

    2) It's really hard to listen to these words. They say they are democratic but how they can defend a Jewish right to return and not a Palestinian right to return= that sounds like UNEQUAL RIGHTS to me. And why do the Israeli's have the right to have a military but the Arabs next door don't?

    You are confusing human rights issues with democracy, democracy is merely the reflection of the views of the majority of voters, the majority of voters do not want a Palestinian right of return, so there has not been one. That doesn't suggest that Israelis are against Palestinian Arabs being part of Israeli society. Secondly the Palestinians do have their own military, and Israel hasn't stopped them from having one, the reason why the Hamas/Fatah controlled territories are so weak is because the Israeli military has been forced to attack them to defend against rocket attacks, and terrorist activity.

    3) They always talk about having unfriendly neighbors, what about the Palestinian peasants, who barely have enough food to feed their families, and the sustanence farmers whose land is taken from them to build settlements? Don't they have unfriendly neighbors too? Don't you think that if you're "neighbor" was able to come and bulldoze your house and not pay you a single penny for it, that you might call that an "unfriendly neighbor" too?

    There is no starvation in Gaza and the Palestinian territories, the Israeli government provides regular food aid and the like, the rest they get through tunnels from Egypt. As for the 'settlements', I don't think I agree with that policy, it seems unethical and disturbing, but again what is at fault there is the policies of the current government coalition within Israel, it is easy for religious radicals within Israel to use the existence of Hamas and Fatah as an excuse to deny Arabs land rights, as in the eyes of the Israeli government the Palestinian territories are war zones.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2012
  5. Roudy
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    Roudy Platinum Member

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    1-The Palestinians have not been living in that land for 1500 years, that is a lie. Also, They never called themselves Palestinans up until the 1960's. The Palestinian people are a fabrication as is their national identity. It is a very recent invention. The land was never theirs to begin with, and the Jews that came did not kick the Arabs who called themselves Palestinains out, they merely defeated those who controlled the land, the British.

    2- Arabs do have a right to a military. They ganged up on Israel 5 times in the past and got defeated. In the process the Arabs that call themselves Palestinians sided with the Arab genocidal plan, and some were displaced, as a result of tis bad decision and defeat. There are consequences to being the looser in a war of aggression, and trying to "finish what the Nazis couldn't". .

    3- Perhaps the Palestinians can focus more on peace with Israel, instead of terror and trying to kill the Israelis. Maybe all that money they are getting cold be put to good use? Also, it would be a good first step for Hamas to remove the destruction of the state of Israel from its charter. Do you expect an internationally recognized terrorist organization to be given more arms? Heck they're already shooting missiles at Israelis. Last week ,ore than 100 missiles were shot into Israel. What was the reason? You expect the Israelis to do what, Send them bouquets of flowers?

    Let's be serious, these lies and false propoganda aren't working. The Palestinians need to chart a different path for themselves. Their terror sponsors in Syria and Iran arent going to last much longer.
     
  6. Artevelde
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    Artevelde Senior Member

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    A very good answer.
     
  7. JStone
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    JStone BANNED

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    Arab American Journalist Joseph Farah: The Myth Of Palestine And Palestinians
     
  8. Roudy
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    Roudy Platinum Member

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    Everything Joseph Farah says is true. Also considering that he is of middle eastern decent. The Arabs that call themselves Palestinians now, never did so up until the mid 1960's. Prior to that, to call an Arab Palestinian would be an insult because the term was used to label Jews that were living there. Mohammad never stepped foot anywhere close to Jerusalem. That is also a recent early 20 century invention by Arafat's Nazi uncle, the Mufti of Jerusalem, to create a religious movement for the genocidal campaign he was waging against Jews. He actually wrote letters to Hitler and Himmler requesting that instead of letting the Jews escape, they should be killed. He was singlehandedly responsible for approximately 500,000 Jews being sent to the death camps for this reason.
     
  9. JStone
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    JStone BANNED

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    Dr. Jerold Auerbach, PhD and Master's degrees in History, Columbia University, Chairman of the History Department, Wellesley College

    When The Arabs Themselves Denied There Was a Palestine
     
  10. MJB12741
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    MJB12741 Gold Member

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    How can Israel be "stealing Palestinian land" when the first & only indigenous Palestinians were Jews & there were no Muslims at all, let alone Palestinian Muslims until the 7th century AD? Very cleaver those Zionists. Heh Heh.
     
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