On the palestinian armed struggle I

[José]

The following message explains the palestinian armed struggle without making any reference to the targeting of civilians.

This most controversial topic will be the subject of part II.

 

[José]

The entire region of Palestine is the homeland of palestinian arabs. This is an undisputable historical fact.

Any state that denies them their right to move freelly and live anywhere they want in their homeland is a supremacist state.

If palestinian arabs were fighting a democratic state that recognised their rights I would be the first one to dennounce their struggle. But they are instead fighting a state racist to the core that treats them as foreigners in their own homeland.

Armed struggles against supremacist states or racial dictatorships as I prefer to call them are absolutely justified.

No group of human beings in the world has the right to deny another group their right to live in their homeland.

When such event happens, then what I call the rules of mankind concerning land grabs come into effect.

I will describe these laws below:

Humanity ratifies an invasion and conquest when the natives surrender and acceed to the conquest. These crime have to be “accepted” at some point because every line on the map is the limit of some invasion/conquest - if mankind don't ratify invasions at some point, the world is mired in a hellstorm of endless landwars.

This is one of the unwritten rules of humanity, followed by the human race for centuries now.

Here’s the crucial point of these laws based on history:

The existence of a racial dictatorship is only “legitimised” by the natives themselves, when they:

1) Do not fight for their land
2) Accept defeat and give up their claim over the land
3) Are exterminated or reduced to insignificance in demographic terms (therefore, having no means to continue their armed struggle).

Only palestinian arabs can legitimise Israel, either though their action or inaction or even through their extermination (if there are no more palestinians to claim anything, Israel’s existence will be “legitimised” by default).

So one of the rules is, you do not fight for your land, or you surrender, you forfeit your land claim, and the land goes to the conqueror. As long as the native fights, the conqueror claim is up for grabs. (This is the basic rule that humanity seems to have agreed on down through the centuries in order to avoid endless land wars).

I defy all the members of the US Message Board to prove me wrong.

The american continent was the stage of these laws for more than 400 years.

The white invader came to America and told the indigenous people of the region:

We’re gonna take your land away from you.

The invaders told them this same phrase in 4 different languages: English, French, Spanish and Portuguese.

And the native inhabitants of the american continent did exactly the same thing from Canada to Tierra del Fuego in Argentina: they took up their arms and tried to repel the invaders or at least force them to share the land they were stealing.

When the natives conceded defeat and gave up their armed struggle the white invader became the legitimate owner of the land... <B>NOT EVEN ONE SECOND EARLIER</B>.

It doesn&#8217;t matter when the invader arrived nor when the invaded people was displaced.

If native americans were still fighting for their land today the possession of the american continent would still be up for grabs.

You can call the indigenous people of the Americas terrorists.

You can call palestinian arabs terrorists.

It makes no difference.

<B>The moment you reject the creation of a democratic, binational state comprising the entire region of Palestine</B>, the laws of mankind regarding land grabs come immediately into effect:

Share the land you stole from us or be attacked, with deadly force for 50, 500 or 1000 years.

Only the displaced people have the right to decide if and when it&#8217;s time to give up their armed struggle and concede defeat.

International organizations like the UN, racist jews and super patriotic american clowns have no say in the matter.

 

[Annie]

If I'm reading you correctly, what is now referred to as 'Israel' is really Palestine?

 

[José]

Originally posted by <B>Kathianne</B>
If I'm reading you correctly, what is now referred to as 'Israel' is really Palestine?

You bet.

Western Palestine, now known as Israel.

The western half of palestinians historical homeland, recognised as such by all those who believe that fighting historical facts is a hopeless battle.

 

[Annie]

You bet.

Western Palestine, now known as Israel.

The western half of palestinians historical homeland, recognised as such by all those who believe that fighting historical facts is a hopeless battle.

So Israel 'ceasts to exist.'

 

[dmp]

The entire region of Palestine is the homeland of palestinian arabs. This is an undisputable historical fact

That's so stupid.

That's like saying Earth is the Homeland of People.

or

Seattle is the Homeland of anyone who was born here!

 

[Hobbit]

Actually, the Canaanites were there first. The Hebrews came in and conquoted the Canaanites, then the Philistines (from which the word Palestine is derived) came in and started fighting the Hebrews. Israel had the upper hand more often than not, and they both eventually lost to the Babylonians, then the Syrians and Seleucids, then the Romans.

Then there's a few more interesting facts. Nobody wanted 'Palestine' until the Jews moved in and started growing grapes the size of watermelons. Nobody wanted the land and nobody would allow those who also didn't want the land to move away after it was already there. On most western maps, it was shown as part of Jordan, but they didn't want it, either. It wasn't until after the Jews were given back the promised land that it became to most coveted piece of real estate since gold was found in the New World.

Then, if we're going to go for this 'homeland' theory, the Jews should actually own Iraq, since Abraham was from Ur, the original Iraqi city. The Celts should own all of France and Great Britain. Only those of American Indian descent should own anything in the Western Hemisphere. If we go back far enough, I'm sure we can find where you should be kicked out of your house and moved back to your 'homeland.' In fact, if you actually believe all this stuff and you're American, go the hell back home and leave my homeland alone, white man. If your little theory goes down, I can lay claim to any spot along about 1/3 of the east coast and most of Western Europe.

 

[dilloduck]

Actually, the Canaanites were there first. The Hebrews came in and conquoted the Canaanites, then the Philistines (from which the word Palestine is derived) came in and started fighting the Hebrews. Israel had the upper hand more often than not, and they both eventually lost to the Babylonians, then the Syrians and Seleucids, then the Romans.

Then there's a few more interesting facts. Nobody wanted 'Palestine' until the Jews moved in and started growing grapes the size of watermelons. Nobody wanted the land and nobody would allow those who also didn't want the land to move away after it was already there. On most western maps, it was shown as part of Jordan, but they didn't want it, either. It wasn't until after the Jews were given back the promised land that it became to most coveted piece of real estate since gold was found in the New World.

Then, if we're going to go for this 'homeland' theory, the Jews should actually own Iraq, since Abraham was from Ur, the original Iraqi city. The Celts should own all of France and Great Britain. Only those of American Indian descent should own anything in the Western Hemisphere. If we go back far enough, I'm sure we can find where you should be kicked out of your house and moved back to your 'homeland.' In fact, if you actually believe all this stuff and you're American, go the hell back home and leave my homeland alone, white man. If your little theory goes down, I can lay claim to any spot along about 1/3 of the east coast and most of Western Europe.

Then there's a few more interesting facts. Nobody wanted 'Palestine' until the Jews moved in

How has it been determined that nobody wanted it ?

 

[José]

Originally posted by Kathianne
So Israel 'ceasts to exist.'

Yes, Kathianne, Israel ceases to exist... so what???

Will a supernova explode near Earth because of it??

Did this kind of natural phenomena happen when racist SA was dismantled?

If Israel were a law of nature, like gravitation, we couldn&#8217;t do anything about it, except being under the influence of Israel.

If Israel were an extrasolar planet or a star, we couldn&#8217;t do much either, except observing Israel through a telescope.

But Israel is neither a law of nature nor a heavenly body.

Israel is a state, a human construct and as such it can be dismantled, modified, democratised at will if historical circunstances prove it to be a dysfunctional construct...

Israel is not even 60 years old and it is already widely regarded as a completely outdated form of social organization by most of the world.

People in America live inside a bubble, a coccoon, unaware of the fact that Israel&#8217;s popularity has been nose diving throughout the world.

The Soviet Union is just one example among hundreds of other states that came to an end when even its rulers became convinced of its dysfunctionality as a human construct.

Not only you, but most americans think about Israel in the same fatalistic, deterministic way that physicists and astronomers think about natural phenomena.

How pathetic is this?

 

[José]

Originally posted by Hobbit
Then there's a few more interesting facts. Nobody wanted 'Palestine' until the Jews moved in and started growing grapes the size of watermelons. Nobody wanted the land and nobody would allow those who also didn't want the land to move away after it was already there. On most western maps, it was shown as part of Jordan, but they didn't want it, either. It wasn't until after the Jews were given back the promised land that it became to most coveted piece of real estate since gold was found in the New World.

Yeah right...

American indians didn&#8217;t give a damn about their land until the arrival of the white man and after this were doing quite well in the reservations...

Black south africans couldn&#8217;t care less about their land and were interested in it only when the dutch came to SA. As a matter of fact, they enjoyed life in their crammed Bantustans and were actually pleased to live in 5% of their homeland while Afrikaners lived it up in the rest of the country...

Palestinian arabs couldn&#8217;t wait to escape from western Palestine, that hellhole they called home and now are having a great time living like cattle in their refugee camps and, as a bunch of subhuman arabs, they are indeed very happy to have the opportunity to cede their land to &#8220;God&#8217;s chosen people&#8221;.

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...

 

[José]

Sorry Hobbit...

You are a nice young man and deserves a polite answer...

So here&#8217;s my reply:

Palestinian arabs living in refugee camps are not &#8220;a bunch of arabs that only wanted Palestine when the Jews arrived.&#8221;

They are the children and grandchildren of the arab population that inhabited western Palestine for hundreds of years.

Genetics, history, international law and common morality tell us they have the right to live in the western half of their homeland if they want to do so.

Look Hobbit...

You can come up with a thousand excuses to &#8220;justify&#8221; jewish racism in Palestine.

But all your excuses and justifications won&#8217;t change the essence of Israel, what Israel really is.

Israel is a group of human beings denying another group of human beings their right to live in their own homeland.

This is immoral, Hobbit.

 

[Annie]

Yes, Kathianne, Israel ceases to exist... so what???

...

So that isn't going to happen and with that, the rest of the rant was not worth repeating.

 

[Stephanie]

Jose, I wonder, if you ever think it might be Palestine that will cease to exist if they want to continue thinking like you do?? Just wondering?

 

[KarlMarx]

Yes, Kathianne, Israel ceases to exist... so what???

Because then they'd have a place to flee to when people want to annihilate them, like Hitler or Stalin, that's why

.....

Israel is a state, a human construct and as such it can be dismantled, modified, democratised at will if historical circunstances prove it to be a dysfunctional construct...

Up until recently, Israel was one of the only two democracies in the Middle East.

Israel is not even 60 years old and it is already widely regarded as a completely outdated form of social organization by most of the world.

Yes, by anti-semites, which proves my point above. Many of the people you mention would like to make the Jewish race obsolete, too, if you understand my meaning..

People in America live inside a bubble, a coccoon, unaware of the fact that Israel’s popularity has been nose diving throughout the world.

So, if someone at High School is unpopular, we should kill them? By your thinking, America should also cease to exist.

The Soviet Union is just one example among hundreds of other states that came to an end when even its rulers became convinced of its dysfunctionality as a human construct.

The Soviet Union ceased to exist because Communism does not work. After the fall of the Czar, the Soviet Union's standard of living fell, which is quite an accomplishment considering that the country was already inhabited by poor serfs who barely made a living.

Not only you, but most americans think about Israel in the same fatalistic, deterministic way that physicists and astronomers think about natural phenomena.

How pathetic is this?

So, we should stop being pathetic and let Israel die. That's the best argument for genocide that I've seen in my life!

 

[José]

Originally posted by Stephanie
Jose, I wonder, if you ever think it might be Palestine that will cease to exist if they want to continue thinking like you do?? Just wondering?

Correct me if I&#8217;m wrong, Stephanie, but you are referring to Israel&#8217;s overwhelming military superiority, aren&#8217;t you?

This is a good subject for a separate thread....

I will adress this issue later ok?

 

[José]

Originally posted by Karl Marx
Because then they'd have a place to flee to when people want to annihilate them, like Hitler or Stalin, that's why

They have a right to live in Palestine free of ethnic discrimination but they have zero right to discriminate against another people.

It&#8217;s quite ironic that you mentioned the security of the jewish people since american jews are probably safer in the US than the ones living in Israel.

But this is what happens when you build your safety on racial supremacism...

The safety of the jewish people is a good cause to support, Marx, but if you are willing to implement their safety through the discrimination of other human beings then you might just as well join the KKK because from this moment on you&#8217;ll have become every bit as bad as the original evil you were trying to fight.

Originally posted by Karl Marx
Up until recently, Israel was one of the only two democracies in the Middle East.

Don't take it from me, Marx, take it from the Wikipedia:

Liberal democracy is a form of representative democracy where the ability of elected representatives to exercise decision-making power is subject to the rule of law and moderated by a constitution which emphasizes the protection of the rights and freedoms of individuals and minorities (also called constitutional democracy and constitutional liberalism), and which places constraints on the extent to which the will of the majority can be exercised.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_democracy

Liberal democracies are not owned by ethnic groups, they don&#8217;t deny citizenship based on ethnicity, the constitution of liberal democracies &#8220;emphasizes the protection of the rights and freedoms of individuals&#8221; regardless of ethnicity.

Israel is about as democratic as South Africa under Apartheid&#8230; Democracy only for jews is no democracy at all&#8230; Israel&#8217;s jewish majority is an artificial majority created by a combination of ethnic cleansing and racist immigration laws&#8230;

Israeli arabs are token arabs.

As long as the israeli government continues to deny citizenship to millions of palestinians living in refugee camps in Gaza, the West Bank and Lebannon, Israel will still be a jewish racial dictatorship, no matter how many civil rights are granted to israeli arabs.

A country that denies citizenship to millions of individuals, natives of the land, simply because they do not belong to the &#8220;official ethnicity&#8221; of the state is not a democracy, Marx.

Israel grants and denies citizenship according to ethnicity therefore it&#8217;s a state based on ethnic supremacism not democratic values.

The only place where Israel is a democratic state is inside the warped mind of a super patriotic american clown where all US allies are democracies by default.

Inside the mind of serious political thinkers, Israel is nothing but a jewish racial dictatorship.

Originally posted by Karl Marx
The Soviet Union ceased to exist because Communism does not work.

Exactly what I said. The Soviet Union was a completely dysfunctional state (human construct).

As dysfunctional as Israel, a jurassic state that is in an eternal state of war against the native arab population of Palestine in order to keep an artificial jewish majority in western Palestine.

What can one say about a state partially responsible for the deaths of 3000 american workers?

(Mohammed Atta grew up in Egypt seeing the israeli &#8220;democracy&#8221; treating palestinian arabs as foreigners in the own land).

A completely dysfunctional supremacist state that plunges the world into the deepest international crisis since the end of the Cold War must be dismantled just like the Soviet Union, as soon as posible for the sake of all mankind.

Originally posted by Karl Marx
So, we should stop being pathetic and let Israel die. That's the best argument for genocide that I've seen in my life!

Keep the &#8220;genocide/throw the jews into the sea&#8221; propaganda / bullshit to yourself.

The conflict in Palestine is basically a war over land, settlers and natives, just like in the Americas with the red vs the white. European settlers claiming to be ethnic jews started immigrating to Palestine and this large scale immigration eventually resulted in the massive displacement of the indigenous population of western Palestine. Now the displaced native people is fighting for their right to live in the western half of their ancestral homeland. That&#8217;s all it is - it has nothing to do with religion or anti-Semitism or hating Jews. It&#8217;s just a conflict over land pure and simple.

Everybody in Israel knows perfectly well that the only reason behind the palestinian armed struggle is the denial by the jewish racial dictatorship of their civil rights, their rights to live in their own land.

They know perfectly well the conflict is about palestinian arabs&#8217; right to live in western palestine, not this genocide crap.

If you don&#8217;t know this basic fact about this conflict, I strongly recommend you to stop for a while and ask yourself:

&#8220;What am I doing here, discussing a subject I know nothing about?&#8221;

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I support Israel strictly as a strategic foothold in the world of islamofascist f#ckers, all of which need to be wiped off the map.

 

[dilloduck]

I support Israel strictly as a strategic foothold in the world of islamofascist f#ckers, all of which need to be wiped off the map.

Oh most definately---having 2 allies wiping out islamofacist f#ckers would be way too many.

 

[Hobbit]

You know, Israel treats Arabs better than any nation in the entire Middle East. They'd treat them even better than they do now, too, if the Arabs would stop blowing up schoolbusses full of children and executing double suicide bombings designed to take out paramedics. It's not like the terrorists are a minority among Palestinians, either, as was shown in the recent elections. No matter what you think of Israel, the Palestinians have brought this on themselves, and if they want anything from Israel, they're going to have to show that they can behave first.

 

[dilloduck]

You know, Israel treats Arabs better than any nation in the entire Middle East. They'd treat them even better than they do now, too, if the Arabs would stop blowing up schoolbusses full of children and executing double suicide bombings designed to take out paramedics. It's not like the terrorists are a minority among Palestinians, either, as was shown in the recent elections. No matter what you think of Israel, the Palestinians have brought this on themselves, and if they want anything from Israel, they're going to have to show that they can behave first.

I'm still curious--seriously--how was it determined that nobody wanted Palestine?