On a serious note, anyone know how to fix this?

[Ropey]

Repeal the Bush tax cuts, raise the top rate by 3%, and cut the defense budget.

Bill Clinton did it and balanced the budget.

No, Bill Clinton did not balance the budget on his own. He had help from the Republicans and even so it was not a success in lowering the debt load, simply a reduction in the penalties of interest on re-packaged debt. He attempted to balance the budget on his own, but his legislation was delayed so that his attempts would not have done any balancing until his term was over, so the Republicans led by Gingrich forced his hand in an attempt to starve the beast on his watch, and lower the deficit interest payments by purchasing debt with a few years left standing and repackaging it for longer term debt in order forgo the earlier debt load payments, so there were some surpluses for a few years however all they did was pay off some of the debt of the interest without any real movement towards a national debt reduction and no real balancing of the budget.

A fairly large portion of Slick Willie's cuts were to civilian infrastructure, maintenance and civil work, and it's a far different financial landscape than when Bill was attempting to reduce the debt load. To attempt this today would be not only be disastrous, but impossible since that method of repackaging was a pyramid structure and has been ended. It was supposed to be used for a short term effect but it was so useful a strategy (so they thought) that it was allowed to continue ad nauseam.

Now Europe might well depress when Italy comes due in another year or so, and the US has dealt with its toxic debt load to a great extent. Europe has stuck their head in the sand and pretended it did not exist.

easily.....

take all spending for the year, divide by the number of people over 18... add a bit to pay off some of the debt and send each a bill for the amount to make them face the true cost of government......

within 6 months all spending will be drastically cut........

^

Exactly!

It wasn't the Republicans OR the Democrats who brought you the economies of the 1980's and 1990's. It was The American Government in the 80's and 90's. The one YOU elected.

Why does politics always have to be like a sporting event with a winner and a looser?

Games and stupidity need the triumphant and those the triumphant make to feel like shit..... The American Marketplace simply needs balance.

Yes, however I'm a Canadian. My point of this being that the financial wheeling and dealing that led to the collapse did not come from Wall Street machinations.

But from the Government. So, this Canadian is simply saying that the US really needs to pull up its socks and deal with the issues in some form of bipartisanship.

However, that being said, the goose that laid the golden egg is no longer laying and the farmer better lock up his daughters because the town boys don't pay no never-mind to poor girls reputations.



And the Dems are a spending like crazy ....

 

[AVG-JOE]

No, Bill Clinton did not balance the budget on his own. He had help from the Republicans and even so it was not a success in lowering the debt load, simply a reduction in the penalties of interest on re-packaged debt. He attempted to balance the budget on his own, but his legislation was delayed so that his attempts would not have done any balancing until his term was over, so the Republicans led by Gingrich forced his hand in an attempt to starve the beast on his watch, and lower the deficit interest payments by purchasing debt with a few years left standing and repackaging it for longer term debt in order forgo the earlier debt load payments, so there were some surpluses for a few years however all they did was pay off some of the debt of the interest without any real movement towards a national debt reduction and no real balancing of the budget.

A fairly large portion of Slick Willie's cuts were to civilian infrastructure, maintenance and civil work, and it's a far different financial landscape than when Bill was attempting to reduce the debt load. To attempt this today would be not only be disastrous, but impossible since that method of repackaging was a pyramid structure and has been ended. It was supposed to be used for a short term effect but it was so useful a strategy (so they thought) that it was allowed to continue ad nauseam.

Now Europe might well depress when Italy comes due in another year or so, and the US has dealt with its toxic debt load to a great extent. Europe has stuck their head in the sand and pretended it did not exist.



^

Exactly!

It wasn't the Republicans OR the Democrats who brought you the economies of the 1980's and 1990's. It was The American Government in the 80's and 90's. The one YOU elected.

Why does politics always have to be like a sporting event with a winner and a looser?

Games and stupidity need the triumphant and those the triumphant make to feel like shit..... The American Marketplace simply needs balance.

I'm a Canadian and you completely missed my point of this being that the financial wheeling and dealing that led to the collapse did not come from Wall Street machinations.

But from the Government. So, this Canadian is simply saying that the US really needs to pull up its socks and deal with the issues in some form of bipartisanship.

However, that being said, the goose that laid the golden egg is no longer laying and the farmer better lock up his daughters because the town boys don't pay no never-mind to poor girls reputations.



And the Dems are a spending like crazy ....

We're paying them to overspend. Just like we're paying the republicans. Giving them all big fat election year handouts to scare us into keeping the credit card open just one more year. The only thing more profitable than a war is 2 ten year wars at once.

We really do make the whole world look stupid from space, right now. I'm certain that's why we don't get more visitors.

 

[Ropey]

Exactly!

It wasn't the Republicans OR the Democrats who brought you the economies of the 1980's and 1990's. It was The American Government in the 80's and 90's. The one YOU elected.

Why does politics always have to be like a sporting event with a winner and a looser?

Games and stupidity need the triumphant and those the triumphant make to feel like shit..... The American Marketplace simply needs balance.

I'm a Canadian and you completely missed my point of this being that the financial wheeling and dealing that led to the collapse did not come from Wall Street machinations.

But from the Government. So, this Canadian is simply saying that the US really needs to pull up its socks and deal with the issues in some form of bipartisanship.

However, that being said, the goose that laid the golden egg is no longer laying and the farmer better lock up his daughters because the town boys don't pay no never-mind to poor girls reputations.



And the Dems are a spending like crazy ....

We're paying them to overspend. Just like we're paying the republicans. Giving them all big fat election year handouts to scare us into keeping the credit card open just one more year. The only thing more profitable than a war is 2 ten year wars at once.

We really do make the whole world look stupid from space, right now. I'm certain that's why we don't get more visitors.

We?

And no, Americans are not paying them to overspend. The average American does not know what has happened but what has happened started on Clinton's watch. It continued as something that was too good to let go of and now Obama has begun to delimit the military by attempting a reversing to the starving of the beast.

I believe it will fail.

 

[Jroc]

Paul Ryan has a good plan. We have to reform entitlements, cut spending and reform the tax code, all this will spur economic growth and help to pay down the debt.. Simple… unfortunately Obama and the Dems have offered nothing but more spending, “raising taxes on the rich” slogans really.. No plan. That’s why they must be voted out. I wish Ryan would have ran he's a good man and knows his stuff

A Roadmap for America's Future | The Budget Committee Republicans

 

[Foxfyre]

Repeal the Bush tax cuts, raise the top rate by 3%, and cut the defense budget.

Bill Clinton did it and balanced the budget.

No, Bill Clinton did not balance the budget on his own. He had help from the Republicans and even so it was not a success in lowering the debt load, simply a reduction in the penalties of interest on re-packaged debt. He attempted to balance the budget on his own, but his legislation was delayed so that his attempts would not have done any balancing until his term was over, so the Republicans led by Gingrich forced his hand in an attempt to starve the beast on his watch, and lower the deficit interest payments by purchasing debt with a few years left standing and repackaging it for longer term debt in order forgo the earlier debt load payments, so there were some surpluses for a few years however all they did was pay off some of the debt of the interest without any real movement towards a national debt reduction and no real balancing of the budget.

A fairly large portion of Slick Willie's cuts were to civilian infrastructure, maintenance and civil work, and it's a far different financial landscape than when Bill was attempting to reduce the debt load. To attempt this today would be not only be disastrous, but impossible since that method of repackaging was a pyramid structure and has been ended. It was supposed to be used for a short term effect but it was so useful a strategy (so they thought) that it was allowed to continue ad nauseam.

Now Europe might well depress when Italy comes due in another year or so, and the US has dealt with its toxic debt load to a great extent. Europe has stuck their head in the sand and pretended it did not exist.

easily.....

take all spending for the year, divide by the number of people over 18... add a bit to pay off some of the debt and send each a bill for the amount to make them face the true cost of government......

within 6 months all spending will be drastically cut........

^

Here is a clip from the old Rush Limbaugh TV show that ran for a couple of years in Bill Clinton's first term. It is an interesting montage of Bill Clinton talking about balancing the budget. I wish I could find the one that ran either on CNN or one of the network news channels--I can't remember which--that included even more of his comments stretching the probability of balancing the budget to no less than 10 and probably 15 to 20 years with proper money management:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFKskm0YcZM]Rush Limbaugh TV- Bubba's Budget Balancing B S - YouTube[/ame]

But then Ronald Reagan also ran on a platform to balance the budget. And every President going back to at least Nixon has promised to make us energy dependent and not one has really moved us one whit closer to that.

The fact is, they all make promises they don't have a clue how to keep and we keep voting party lines because one is more social program big government oriented and the other less so, but in the end, none of the problems get solved.

I suggest we start electing people committed to solving the problems instead of feathering their own nests. And ours.

 

[Ropey]

It's not about the economy Jroc.

It's about winning elections. That's the major disconnect Jroc. That's the problem. By the time a President is elected he's already looking towards a second term. Remember what Obama said about a second term.

This is the reason (imo) why the Republicans continued the Clinton money grab. Greed. Republicans need to get back from the dance they did with the spenders. Not back to the center, but hard right of center because they've been drifting since Clinton

Here is a clip from the old Rush Limbaugh TV show that ran for a couple of years in Bill Clinton's first term. It is an interesting montage of Bill Clinton talking about balancing the budget. I wish I could find the one that ran either on CNN or one of the network news channels--I can't remember which--that included even more of his comments stretching the probability of balancing the budget to no less than 10 and probably 15 to 20 years with proper money management:

Rush Limbaugh TV- Bubba's Budget Balancing B S - YouTube

But then Ronald Reagan also ran on a platform to balance the budget. And every President going back to at least Nixon has promised to make us energy dependent and not one has really moved us one whit closer to that.

The fact is, they all make promises they don't have a clue how to keep and we keep voting party lines because one is more social program big government oriented and the other less so, but in the end, none of the problems get solved.

I suggest we start electing people committed to solving the problems instead of feathering their own nests. And ours.

But they never did the financial wizardry Foxfyre. Great clip by the way. Really great clip.

 

[Foxfyre]

Here is a clip from the old Rush Limbaugh TV show that ran for a couple of years in Bill Clinton's first term. It is an interesting montage of Bill Clinton talking about balancing the budget. I wish I could find the one that ran either on CNN or one of the network news channels--I can't remember which--that included even more of his comments stretching the probability of balancing the budget to no less than 10 and probably 15 to 20 years with proper money management:

Rush Limbaugh TV- Bubba's Budget Balancing B S - YouTube

But then Ronald Reagan also ran on a platform to balance the budget. And every President going back to at least Nixon has promised to make us energy dependent and not one has really moved us one whit closer to that.

The fact is, they all make promises they don't have a clue how to keep and we keep voting party lines because one is more social program big government oriented and the other less so, but in the end, none of the problems get solved.

I suggest we start electing people committed to solving the problems instead of feathering their own nests. And ours.

But they never did the financial wizardry Foxfyre.

Well yes, the did do financial wizardry which is why the Democrats still brag that Clinton left GWB with a surplus and the Republicans say the GOP reformers Congress gave GWB a surplus and the truth is there was no surplus because that debt clock kept right on running. They were just able to put a little money into the treasury for a change, but it was committed for other stuff.

But still they all promise great things and they are forgiven by their party when they don't deliver and are blamed by the opposing party when they don't deliver.

Here's a good example of promises to free us from dependence on foreign oil explained as only Jon Stewart can explain it :

An Energy-Independent Future - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 06/16/10 - Video Clip | Comedy Central

 

[Jroc]

It's not about the economy Jroc.

It's about winning elections. That's the major disconnect Jroc. That's the problem. By the time a President is elected he's already looking towards a second term. Remember what Obama said about a second term.

This is the reason (imo) why the Republicans continued the Clinton money grab. Greed. Republicans need to get back from the dance they did with the spenders. Not back to the center, but hard right of center because they've been drifting since Clinton

This is a new time Ropey we can't play these games anymore. I don't advocate center that’s for sure, a question was asked, I answered it. I think Ryan has good ideas and he is a solutions man. His plan would definitely be considered hard right of center

 

[Ropey]

It's not about the economy Jroc.

It's about winning elections. That's the major disconnect Jroc. That's the problem. By the time a President is elected he's already looking towards a second term. Remember what Obama said about a second term.

This is the reason (imo) why the Republicans continued the Clinton money grab. Greed. Republicans need to get back from the dance they did with the spenders. Not back to the center, but hard right of center because they've been drifting since Clinton

This is a new time Ropey we can't play these games anymore. I don't advocate center that’s for sure, a question was asked, I answered it. I think Ryan has good ideas and he is a solutions man. His plan would definitely be considered hard right of center

Not these known games, but another money grab sooner or later. A new time often equates to new games.

I'll research his plan, but is he hard right of center?

 

[Jroc]

It's not about the economy Jroc.

It's about winning elections. That's the major disconnect Jroc. That's the problem. By the time a President is elected he's already looking towards a second term. Remember what Obama said about a second term.

This is the reason (imo) why the Republicans continued the Clinton money grab. Greed. Republicans need to get back from the dance they did with the spenders. Not back to the center, but hard right of center because they've been drifting since Clinton

This is a new time Ropey we can't play these games anymore. I don't advocate center that’s for sure, a question was asked, I answered it. I think Ryan has good ideas and he is a solutions man. His plan would definitely be considered hard right of center

Not these known games, but another money grab sooner or later. A new time often equates to new games.

I'll research his plan, but is he hard right of center?

Yes his economic policies surly are. Don't fall for what you hear Ropey, read the plan and get back to me, let me know what you think. Edit.. This is not the Ryan budget that passed the house this plan has never come up for a vote

 

[likeabird03]

If you look at the debt to gdp per country page on that debt clock you will see that the countries who are actually utilizing their natural resources have low levels of debt, in fact their debt levels are DECREASING. We could do the same, no?

Oh yeah... the EPA.

 

[Ropey]

Here is a clip from the old Rush Limbaugh TV show that ran for a couple of years in Bill Clinton's first term. It is an interesting montage of Bill Clinton talking about balancing the budget. I wish I could find the one that ran either on CNN or one of the network news channels--I can't remember which--that included even more of his comments stretching the probability of balancing the budget to no less than 10 and probably 15 to 20 years with proper money management:

Rush Limbaugh TV- Bubba's Budget Balancing B S - YouTube

But then Ronald Reagan also ran on a platform to balance the budget. And every President going back to at least Nixon has promised to make us energy dependent and not one has really moved us one whit closer to that.

The fact is, they all make promises they don't have a clue how to keep and we keep voting party lines because one is more social program big government oriented and the other less so, but in the end, none of the problems get solved.

I suggest we start electing people committed to solving the problems instead of feathering their own nests. And ours.

But they never did the financial wizardry Foxfyre.

Well yes, they did do financial wizardry which is why the Democrats still brag that Clinton left GWB with a surplus and the Republicans say the GOP reformers Congress gave GWB a surplus and the truth is there was no surplus because that debt clock kept right on running. They were just able to put a little money into the treasury for a change, but it was committed for other stuff.

But still they all promise great things and they are forgiven by their party when they don't deliver and are blamed by the opposing party when they don't deliver.

Here's a good example of promises to free us from dependence on foreign oil explained as only Jon Stewart can explain it :

An Energy-Independent Future - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 06/16/10 - Video Clip | Comedy Central

You mentioned Reagan and Nixon. I said that they did not perform the financial wizardry that Clinton did. You responded with Clinton and Bush doing it.

That's my point. Clinton started this debt repackaging scheme. The Republicans were loathe to let such a fine generator of funds drop and after the first gulf war it was a necessary embedded feature.

Until it wasn't.

Well, at least they've ended the restructuring of old debt paid via repackaging with new debt and resold with approval by Fanny and Freddy as long term debt. That took the US to its' knees though. So did the dot.com, savings and loan manipulations as well. To my eyes, clearly Capitalism needs a watchdog because of the manipulators of it and not in and of itself.

Capitalism is under attack and the owners are fighting each other.

 

[Lakhota]

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

Clinton came close...until...

 

[Jroc]

If you look at the debt to gdp per country page on that debt clock you will see that the countries who are actually utilizing their natural resources have low levels of debt, in fact their debt levels are DECREASING. We could do the same, no?

Oh yeah... the EPA.

Yep...

America's Boomtown: North Dakota housing crunch

In the town of Williston, N.D., America's newest oil boomtown, more than 6,000 job seekers have come from every corner of the country looking for work. Yet, oil companies and other developers haven't been able to build housing units fast enough.

In the past year, only about 2,000 new housing units have been built, leaving many workers out in the cold.

With dozens of job seekers arriving by the day and fewer and fewer spots for them live in, people are taking some desperate measures.

Newer arrivals who can't find vacant hotel rooms or apartments sleep in their cars or in sleeping bags on spare patches of grass along the highway. The luckier ones nab a spot in one of the dozens of dorm-like facilities, known as "man camps," that the oil companies have built to house their workers.

The living conditions are far from ideal, but to some of these workers the lure of doubling or tripling their salaries far outweighs the physical and mental toll it can take.

My street address is the Walmart parking lot

In July, Matt was transferred from a Walmart in Minnesota to Williston's only Walmart -- more than doubling his salary. After arriving in the town he bought an RV to live in and soon realized that the store's parking lot was going to be the closest thing to home he was going to have for some time.

Each day, he buys something from the 24-hour Supercenter so he has an excuse to stay there. At night, Matt (who asked that his last name not be used) and his neighbors break out their lawn chairs, a grill and some beers and tell stories into the wee hours about where they have come from and what they are doing -- or hope to do -- with the money they will make off of this black gold rush.

Double your salary in the middle of nowhere, North Dakota

"Some people look at us like we're homeless," he said. "But anyone who needs to find us can find us -- we have a street address: it's 4001 2nd Ave., Walmart."

LaRae and Scott Miles have been living with their two kids and three dogs in an RV parked in a Williston campground since moving from Washington more than a year ago.

America's Boomtown: North Dakota housing crunch - Yahoo! Finance

 

[paulitician]

Cut spending and pass 'Balanced Budget' Legislation. Our Politcians will have to be forced to get spending under control. They will not do it otherwise.

 

[Foxfyre]

But they never did the financial wizardry Foxfyre.

Well yes, they did do financial wizardry which is why the Democrats still brag that Clinton left GWB with a surplus and the Republicans say the GOP reformers Congress gave GWB a surplus and the truth is there was no surplus because that debt clock kept right on running. They were just able to put a little money into the treasury for a change, but it was committed for other stuff.

But still they all promise great things and they are forgiven by their party when they don't deliver and are blamed by the opposing party when they don't deliver.

Here's a good example of promises to free us from dependence on foreign oil explained as only Jon Stewart can explain it :

An Energy-Independent Future - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 06/16/10 - Video Clip | Comedy Central

You mentioned Reagan and Nixon. I said that they did not perform the financial wizardry that Clinton did. You responded with Clinton and Bush doing it.

That's my point. Clinton started this debt repackaging scheme. The Republicans were loathe to let such a fine generator of funds drop and after the first gulf war it was a necessary embedded feature.

Until it wasn't.

Well, at least they've ended the restructuring of old debt paid via repackaging with new debt and resold with approval by Fanny and Freddy as long term debt. That took the US to its' knees though. So did the dot.com, savings and loan manipulations as well. To my eyes, clearly Capitalism needs a watchdog because of the manipulators of it and not in and of itself.

Capitalism is under attack and the owners are fighting each other.

Okay, I did miss your intent with your post. The dot.com bubble started building in the mid 1980's and the housing bubble has been building since the Carter administration. I honestly am not well read on the dot.com bubble, but I have read a LOT on the housing bubble and the blame for that is squarely with administrations and congresses who essentially forced irresponsible lending and bundling of debt practices on the financial institutions and especially the Congress that failed to heed President Bush's repeated and clear warnings from 2005 through 2008 until the crash.

But if we keep electing people who will only give lip service to real reform but essentially make sure the status quo is maintained, nothing is going to get fixed until we have become 100% Europeanized and lose the great nation that the Founders gave us.

 

[CT9]

I wish you would have started being serious 10 threads ago before you flood the board with bullshit, now you are serious?

Too little too late, kind of like this. We are fucked... I'd like to thank you guys for that....

 

[Ropey]

Well yes, they did do financial wizardry which is why the Democrats still brag that Clinton left GWB with a surplus and the Republicans say the GOP reformers Congress gave GWB a surplus and the truth is there was no surplus because that debt clock kept right on running. They were just able to put a little money into the treasury for a change, but it was committed for other stuff.

But still they all promise great things and they are forgiven by their party when they don't deliver and are blamed by the opposing party when they don't deliver.

Here's a good example of promises to free us from dependence on foreign oil explained as only Jon Stewart can explain it :

An Energy-Independent Future - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 06/16/10 - Video Clip | Comedy Central

You mentioned Reagan and Nixon. I said that they did not perform the financial wizardry that Clinton did. You responded with Clinton and Bush doing it.

That's my point. Clinton started this debt repackaging scheme. The Republicans were loathe to let such a fine generator of funds drop and after the first gulf war it was a necessary embedded feature.

Until it wasn't.

Well, at least they've ended the restructuring of old debt paid via repackaging with new debt and resold with approval by Fanny and Freddy as long term debt. That took the US to its' knees though. So did the dot.com, savings and loan manipulations as well. To my eyes, clearly Capitalism needs a watchdog because of the manipulators of it and not in and of itself.

Capitalism is under attack and the owners are fighting each other.

Okay, I did miss your intent with your post. The dot.com bubble started building in the mid 1980's and the housing bubble has been building since the Carter administration. I honestly am not well read on the dot.com bubble, but I have read a LOT on the housing bubble and the blame for that is squarely with administrations and congresses who essentially forced irresponsible lending and bundling of debt practices on the financial institutions and especially the Congress that failed to heed President Bush's repeated and clear warnings from 2005 through 2008 until the crash.

But if we keep electing people who will only give lip service to real reform but essentially make sure the status quo is maintained, nothing is going to get fixed until we have become 100% Europeanized and lose the great nation that the Founders gave us.

The snowball is rather large but America can rebound from this as well. What it can not rebound from is a society of those who feel entitled.

This coming from a Canadian? Go figure eh?

 

[Ropey]

I wish you would have started being serious 10 threads ago before you flood the board with bullshit, now you are serious?

Too little too late, kind of like this. We are fucked... I'd like to thank you guys for that....

You keep wishing. Let me know how that works out for you, eh?

 

[Foxfyre]

You mentioned Reagan and Nixon. I said that they did not perform the financial wizardry that Clinton did. You responded with Clinton and Bush doing it.

That's my point. Clinton started this debt repackaging scheme. The Republicans were loathe to let such a fine generator of funds drop and after the first gulf war it was a necessary embedded feature.

Until it wasn't.

Well, at least they've ended the restructuring of old debt paid via repackaging with new debt and resold with approval by Fanny and Freddy as long term debt. That took the US to its' knees though. So did the dot.com, savings and loan manipulations as well. To my eyes, clearly Capitalism needs a watchdog because of the manipulators of it and not in and of itself.

Capitalism is under attack and the owners are fighting each other.

Okay, I did miss your intent with your post. The dot.com bubble started building in the mid 1980's and the housing bubble has been building since the Carter administration. I honestly am not well read on the dot.com bubble, but I have read a LOT on the housing bubble and the blame for that is squarely with administrations and congresses who essentially forced irresponsible lending and bundling of debt practices on the financial institutions and especially the Congress that failed to heed President Bush's repeated and clear warnings from 2005 through 2008 until the crash.

But if we keep electing people who will only give lip service to real reform but essentially make sure the status quo is maintained, nothing is going to get fixed until we have become 100% Europeanized and lose the great nation that the Founders gave us.

The snowball is rather large but America can rebound from this as well. What it can not rebound from is a society of those who feel entitled.

This coming from a Canadian? Go figure eh?

I hope so Ropey. I hope so. We need a lot more pressure from the Tea Party and movements/organizations like them in order to get enough real reformers into Congress and the White House though. I just hope they all have the will to keep fighting.