Obama to launder money so seniors don’t lose coverage before Election

[Jroc]

Paul Ryan's New-and-Improved Plan for Medicare and Medicaid Reform

As always, Ryan's "plans" remain hopelessly muddled and detached from reality. But they sure do appeal to the base!

That 14 percent doesn't take into account the positive benefits to the economy and overall medical costs therein because of the preservation of free market forces Medicare Advantage incentivizes. You call it corporate welfare, but by your standard, ANY incentive to use the free market is nothing more than corporate welfare.

What is "the free market" in this context? Is an HMO a free market model of payment? Is subsidizing the additional costs of Medicare Advantage plans (at additional cost to the taxpayer and Medicare beneficiaries who remain in fee-for-service Medicare) the free market approach? I've heard time and again from folks on the right that the existing private insurance industry does not constitute a free market (however they're using the phrase), so you seem to be an anomaly. I'd be interested in hearing what exactly you're talking about.

Beyond that, maybe you can explain those great benefits of the program. It costs more, it's making the entire program less viable in the long run, and it hasn't improved outcomes for seniors. All it does is tack on some additional benefits with extremely limited value-added for the Medicare consumer (Pizer, Frakt, and Feldman pinned the consumer surplus at 14 cents on the dollar for that extra spending). The choice of insurers you get is balanced by the choice of providers you lose in joining an HMO or PPO over FFS Medicare (unless you choose a private FFS plan--but then what's the point of managed care minus the managed care?).

Ohh the same reason they have been getting "bonuses" for some time. Not just Obama.

I think you have a serious problem with facts.

The MA bonus program is part of ObamaCare, it didn't exist before 2010. Unless previous presidents had access to some sort of time machine they could not have used it to pay bonuses to anyone. The thread I started, which I linked to earlier, made that clear, of you had bothered to read it.

Here's a reading tip, genius: "Quotation marks can also be used to indicate a different meaning of a word or phrase than the one typically associated with it and are often used to express irony."

Citizen isn't talking about the specific bonus program, he's obviously talking about the constant "corrections" (quotation marks again!) that have pushed the benchmark bids upward and thus lined the pockets of participating private insurers.

Reality? So Obama care your "Reality” a 2700 page law filled with payoffs, more government and bureaucracy, a law which incentivizes businesses to drop their coverage all together, and a law which Obama and most of congress hasn't actually read, and you assumed out of blind faith that that kind of government intervention into our lives is a good thing? I say you’re pretty much a crack pot along with the rest of the people who have blind faith in government while we have a 16 trillion dollar debt and no end in sight with that demagogue that is Obama

 

[Greenbeard]

Reality?

Really. Ryan's full of shit.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Ohh the same reason they have been getting "bonuses" for some time. Not just Obama.

I think you have a serious problem with facts.

The MA bonus program is part of ObamaCare, it didn't exist before 2010. Unless previous presidents had access to some sort of time machine they could not have used it to pay bonuses to anyone. The thread I started, which I linked to earlier, made that clear, of you had bothered to read it.

Here's a reading tip, genius: "Quotation marks can also be used to indicate a different meaning of a word or phrase than the one typically associated with it and are often used to express irony."

Citizen isn't talking about the specific bonus program, he's obviously talking about the constant "corrections" (quotation marks again!) that have pushed the benchmark bids upward and thus lined the pockets of participating private insurers.

You have no idea what he is talking about, unless you are saying you are his sock. Citizen has been trying to spin these bonuses as the usual way of doing business from the beginning, just like you. They aren't, so you both fail.

 

[uscitizen]

I think you have a serious problem with facts.

The MA bonus program is part of ObamaCare, it didn't exist before 2010. Unless previous presidents had access to some sort of time machine they could not have used it to pay bonuses to anyone. The thread I started, which I linked to earlier, made that clear, of you had bothered to read it.

Here's a reading tip, genius: "Quotation marks can also be used to indicate a different meaning of a word or phrase than the one typically associated with it and are often used to express irony."

Citizen isn't talking about the specific bonus program, he's obviously talking about the constant "corrections" (quotation marks again!) that have pushed the benchmark bids upward and thus lined the pockets of participating private insurers.

You have no idea what he is talking about, unless you are saying you are his sock. Citizen has been trying to spin these bonuses as the usual way of doing business from the beginning, just like you. They aren't, so you both fail.

do a bit of research.

Hmm found this.

•The MA Quality Bonus Payment Demonstration dwarfs all other Medicare demonstrations—both mandatory and discretionary—conducted since 1995 in its estimated budgetary impact and is larger in size and scope than many of them. Our review of CMS and OMB data shows that the estimated budgetary impact of the demonstration, adjusted for inflation, is at least seven times larger than that of any other Medicare demonstration conducted since 1995 and is greater than the combined budgetary impact of all of those demonstrations. While the demonstration is similar in size and scope to some Part D demonstrations, it is unlike many Medicare pay-for-performance demonstrations in that it is implemented nationwide and allows all eligible plans or providers to participate.
http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-12-409R

Anything to say?

 

[Greenbeard]

You have no idea what he is talking about, unless you are saying you are his sock. Citizen has been trying to spin these bonuses as the usual way of doing business from the beginning, just like you. They aren't, so you both fail.

The "usual way of doing business" with Medicare Advantage is to reset the benchmarks against which bids are measured in ways favorable to the private insurers participating in the program. That's why it's gotten up to 114% of the per-beneficiary costs of fee-for-service Medicare. The quality bonuses are the same mechanism, a re-setting of the benchmarks (i.e. the benchmark reductions in the ACA are smaller for higher quality plans) with the difference being that lower quality plans get no benefits. The entire issue here is that plans rated 3 and 3.5 aren't supposed to qualify for that reward, yet CMS has used demonstration authority to extend it to them.

Citizen was obviously talking about MA's long history of setting benchmarks that direct more money to private insurers because that's explicitly what he said in his post.

Ohh the same reason they have been getting "bonuses" for some time. Not just Obama.
Think about it, you can figure it out. Just remove the partisan blinders for a bit.

the health care industry lobbied for and got Medicare part C in 1997 as part of the balanced budget deal and they got 5% less than regular medicare reimbursement. But it got the door open for them to get more of the medicare tax dollars.
And since then they have been spending lots of money lobbying...
Now they get 14% more than for traditional medicare.....

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Here's a reading tip, genius: "Quotation marks can also be used to indicate a different meaning of a word or phrase than the one typically associated with it and are often used to express irony."

Citizen isn't talking about the specific bonus program, he's obviously talking about the constant "corrections" (quotation marks again!) that have pushed the benchmark bids upward and thus lined the pockets of participating private insurers.

You have no idea what he is talking about, unless you are saying you are his sock. Citizen has been trying to spin these bonuses as the usual way of doing business from the beginning, just like you. They aren't, so you both fail.

do a bit of research.

Why do I need to research? Aren't you the one that said that this bonus program existed for years? If you can actually prove what you are saying, provide links, and I will admit I am wrong. Otherwise, you have a problem with facts.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You have no idea what he is talking about, unless you are saying you are his sock. Citizen has been trying to spin these bonuses as the usual way of doing business from the beginning, just like you. They aren't, so you both fail.

The "usual way of doing business" with Medicare Advantage is to reset the benchmarks against which bids are measured in ways favorable to the private insurers participating in the program. That's why it's gotten up to 114% of the per-beneficiary costs of fee-for-service Medicare. The quality bonuses are the same mechanism, a re-setting of the benchmarks (i.e. the benchmark reductions in the ACA are smaller for higher quality plans) with the difference being that lower quality plans get no benefits. The entire issue here is that plans rated 3 and 3.5 aren't supposed to qualify for that reward, yet CMS has used demonstration authority to extend it to them.

Citizen was obviously talking about MA's long history of setting benchmarks that direct more money to private insurers because that's explicitly what he said in his post.

Ohh the same reason they have been getting "bonuses" for some time. Not just Obama.
Think about it, you can figure it out. Just remove the partisan blinders for a bit.

the health care industry lobbied for and got Medicare part C in 1997 as part of the balanced budget deal and they got 5% less than regular medicare reimbursement. But it got the door open for them to get more of the medicare tax dollars.
And since then they have been spending lots of money lobbying...
Now they get 14% more than for traditional medicare.....

The "health care industry" only exists in pundits heads. The insurers lobby for one thing, hospiatals lobby for something else, doctors a thrid thing. The only exception to that in recent history was ObamaCare, which you think is wonderful, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

 

[uscitizen]

You have no idea what he is talking about, unless you are saying you are his sock. Citizen has been trying to spin these bonuses as the usual way of doing business from the beginning, just like you. They aren't, so you both fail.

do a bit of research.

Why do I need to research? Aren't you the one that said that this bonus program existed for years? If you can actually prove what you are saying, provide links, and I will admit I am wrong. Otherwise, you have a problem with facts.

Did you edit this out of my post for a reason? could be a matter of timing but awfully close since I edited this in at 8:36 and your last post to another poster was at 8:36.


Hmm found this.

•The MA Quality Bonus Payment Demonstration dwarfs all other Medicare demonstrations—both mandatory and discretionary—conducted since 1995 in its estimated budgetary impact and is larger in size and scope than many of them. Our review of CMS and OMB data shows that the estimated budgetary impact of the demonstration, adjusted for inflation, is at least seven times larger than that of any other Medicare demonstration conducted since 1995 and is greater than the combined budgetary impact of all of those demonstrations. While the demonstration is similar in size and scope to some Part D demonstrations, it is unlike many Medicare pay-for-performance demonstrations in that it is implemented nationwide and allows all eligible plans or providers to participate.
U.S. GAO - Medicare Advantage: Quality Bonus Payment Demonstration Undermined by High Estimated Costs and Design Shortcomings

Anything to say?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by uscitizen; Today at 08:36 PM.

Still anything to say?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

do a bit of research.

Why do I need to research? Aren't you the one that said that this bonus program existed for years? If you can actually prove what you are saying, provide links, and I will admit I am wrong. Otherwise, you have a problem with facts.

Did you edit this out of my post for a reason? could be a matter of timing but awfully close since I edited this in at 8:36 and your last post to another poster was at 8:36.


Hmm found this.

•The MA Quality Bonus Payment Demonstration dwarfs all other Medicare demonstrations—both mandatory and discretionary—conducted since 1995 in its estimated budgetary impact and is larger in size and scope than many of them. Our review of CMS and OMB data shows that the estimated budgetary impact of the demonstration, adjusted for inflation, is at least seven times larger than that of any other Medicare demonstration conducted since 1995 and is greater than the combined budgetary impact of all of those demonstrations. While the demonstration is similar in size and scope to some Part D demonstrations, it is unlike many Medicare pay-for-performance demonstrations in that it is implemented nationwide and allows all eligible plans or providers to participate.
U.S. GAO - Medicare Advantage: Quality Bonus Payment Demonstration Undermined by High Estimated Costs and Design Shortcomings

Anything to say?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by uscitizen; Today at 08:36 PM.

Still anything to say?

Isn't that the same link I posted?

The demonstration projects are part of ObamaCare. Medicare, in its entirety, needs to be reformed, sooner, rather than later. Perpetuationg the problem, and using an $8 billion dollar slush fund to postpone the negative effects of ObamaCare at the same time, has never been done before. Pointing that out does not make me partisan, arguing that this is business as usual might just make you one.

 

[Jroc]

Why do I need to research? Aren't you the one that said that this bonus program existed for years? If you can actually prove what you are saying, provide links, and I will admit I am wrong. Otherwise, you have a problem with facts.

Did you edit this out of my post for a reason? could be a matter of timing but awfully close since I edited this in at 8:36 and your last post to another poster was at 8:36.


Hmm found this.

•The MA Quality Bonus Payment Demonstration dwarfs all other Medicare demonstrations—both mandatory and discretionary—conducted since 1995 in its estimated budgetary impact and is larger in size and scope than many of them. Our review of CMS and OMB data shows that the estimated budgetary impact of the demonstration, adjusted for inflation, is at least seven times larger than that of any other Medicare demonstration conducted since 1995 and is greater than the combined budgetary impact of all of those demonstrations. While the demonstration is similar in size and scope to some Part D demonstrations, it is unlike many Medicare pay-for-performance demonstrations in that it is implemented nationwide and allows all eligible plans or providers to participate.
U.S. GAO - Medicare Advantage: Quality Bonus Payment Demonstration Undermined by High Estimated Costs and Design Shortcomings

Anything to say?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by uscitizen; Today at 08:36 PM.

Still anything to say?

Isn't that the same link I posted?

The demonstration projects are part of ObamaCare. Medicare, in its entirety, needs to be reformed, sooner, rather than later. Perpetuationg the problem, and using an $8 billion dollar slush fund to postpone the negative effects of ObamaCare at the same time, has never been done before. Pointing that out does not make me partisan, arguing that this is business as usual might just make you one.

Yep...Thats what I've been saying

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Medicare is a huge scam anyways. It needs to be abolished for future generations. The health insurance companies and government are in cahoots; stealing from this generation with no intention of offering any sort of real benefit down the road.