Not sure Republicans understand difference between "capitalism" and "exploitation"

[samjones]

Socialism is a political and economic system. If you go back and read what I wrote carefully you will see that I specified a planned socialistic system, not a market socialistic system.

It doesn't matter which type of socialist system you're talking about. All economic systems are predicated on the notion that plows should go to farmers and axes should go to woodsmen. They are predicated on the notion that the smith will feel that he has received more by giving than he would have if he had kept it.... probably because he received food and firewood.

You're too emotional about your hatred of Socialism to think straight. If things were exchanged without regard to need or benefit then cats would be given stethoscopes.

Just take a deep breath and forget about hating the commies for a minute and you'll see what I mean.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Socialism is a political and economic system. If you go back and read what I wrote carefully you will see that I specified a planned socialistic system, not a market socialistic system.

It doesn't matter which type of socialist system you're talking about. All economic systems are predicated on the notion that plows should go to farmers and axes should go to woodsmen. They are predicated on the notion that the smith will feel that he has received more by giving than he would have if he had kept it.... probably because he received food and firewood.

You're too emotional about your hatred of Socialism to think straight. If things were exchanged without regard to need or benefit then cats would be given stethoscopes.

Just take a deep breath and forget about hating the commies for a minute and you'll see what I mean.

You are assuming that a planned socialistic system is economic, not political.

 

[Toro]

What do you think is exploitation here?

If you're looking for rational discourse here, you're sorely mistaken...

 

[DSGE]

What do you think is exploitation here?

If you're looking for rational discourse here, you're sorely mistaken...

I'm slowly realising that.

 

[samjones]

You are assuming that a planned socialistic system is economic, not political.

You're assuming that "socialism" means something that it does not and that thing that you're assuming socialism is.... well it's a really, really bad thing Brother and how dare I talk about it like it's just another economic system.

Can you imagine how difficult it is to have a simple conversation when the board is infested with people who think this way?

 

[Dot Com]

Not sure Republicans understand difference between "capitalism" and "exploitation".

When I think of capitalism, I think of something being made and that something being sold, hopefully for a profit.

Can what Romney does, indulging in predatory take over, firing people, selling the assets and making millions be called "capitalism"? I understand this Republican Party has a "make money no matter what the cost or who it screws" attitude. But can you still call that capitalism? If it's not capitalism, then what is it?

Do you? Are you aware that a contract is a formalized agreement that allows two parties to exploit each other?

That said, what Romney did at Bain was invest in failing companies and make a profit for the people who were paying him. Quite often that resulted in the companies he bought being dismantled, but that was not the only result. When it was feasible he would bring in new management and restructure the company, not only saving it, but actually creating more jobs for other people. My understanding is that his work at Bain resulted in a net increase in jobs, unlike Obama's work at the job he has now.

link? Never mind.

 

[peach174]

Why Socialism always fails;

Socialist centrally planned economies invariably fail due to their inherent and integral failure to encourage, develop, and nurture the essential potential of its people by lack of incentivization. Socialism is a failure because it suppresses the human spirit. Why else have so many thousands of people lost their lives in attempts to clandestinely escape their socialistic bondage and reach nations which embrace free market economies? In comparison, how many people have willingly left free market economies to move to socialist countries?

Free Market economies work
Marxism doesn't

Exploitation & Capitalism are words that were invented by Carl Marx to demonize the free market system.
Anywhere Marxism has been implemented it has always failed.

 

[expat_panama]

...Free Market economies work Marxism doesn't Exploitation & Capitalism is words that were invented by Carl Marx to demonize the free market system. Anywhere Marxism has been implemented it has always failed.

OK, but other than that what's so bad about Marxism?



</sarcasm>

 

[peach174]

...free market economies work marxism doesn't exploitation & capitalism are words that were invented by carl marx to demonize the free market system. Anywhere marxism has been implemented it has always failed.

ok, but other than that what's so bad about marxism?



</sarcasm>

 

[samjones]

Exploitation & Capitalism are words that were invented by Carl Marx

I don't have to do a Google to know that the word "exploitation" was not coined by Karl Marx.

Get fucking real, Dude.

 

[expat_panama]

... "exploitation" was not coined by Karl Marx...

What we got is the fact that Marx was one of the first to push heavily on the idea that the rich exploited the poor and the those that sold labor were exploited buy those that bought. His key works Das Kapital and The Communist Manifesto focused more on exploitation than Einstein focused on relativity. Marx used the slur "Capitalism" in the sme decade the word first came out in print in Das Kapital --the idea being that those who liked capital didn't like labor.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You are assuming that a planned socialistic system is economic, not political.

You're assuming that "socialism" means something that it does not and that thing that you're assuming socialism is.... well it's a really, really bad thing Brother and how dare I talk about it like it's just another economic system.

Can you imagine how difficult it is to have a simple conversation when the board is infested with people who think this way?

Just an economic system? Do you seriously want to go against the actual definition of socialism you can find simply to score points?

1 :any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or government ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

Socialism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

The simple fact is that even capitalism, in the real world, is not just an economic system. Politics trumps everything, even thought problems where economics is a pure science.

 

[whitehall]

Wasn't it Barry Hussein who referred to the US Chamber of Commerce as a "sinister tool of the GOP". Does Barry understand what commerce means? Does Barry understand the relationship between exploitation and the "green jobs" hype? Did he know his friend and mentor Bill Ayers was a domestic terrorist? Did he know his friend Van Jones was a communist?

 

[expat_panama]

...even capitalism, in the real world, is not just an economic system. Politics trumps everything...

No it doesn't.

Doctor says you die unless you get a pint of blood --you say no if the donor's not in political party? Maybe that's how it's going to be if Obamacare gets fully implemented but for now politics has its place and we as individuals choose just how big a place that is.

Politics controls the government and when the government controls where and what we buy and sell the place for politics is enormous. What's more is that "in the real world" government controlled buying and selling is so miserable that people risk their lives and the lives of their families to flee to places where people --not politics-- do the buying and selling.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

actually under socialism government owns and manages the commanding heights or major industries so that people are not free to own and exchange or manage. Under Obamacare the liberals control the system precisely so individuals will not be free. If BO approved of freedom to exchange he would not want BO care.

Sam, try college before you post.

Try reading slowly and for comprehension, my friend. Under Socialism the government owned corporation is free to exchange something for something else with another party (perhaps an individual) at some benefit to both. This is a basic law of economic theory. "There is no such thing as a losing trade." That in any exchange each party will at least perceive a benefit to surrendering what it has for what it is to receive.... excepting slavery, imprisonment, duress, etc.

The Capitalist metaphor simply allows people to exchange thing of value to them for an ownership stake in the companies that produce them. Power to the people!

Try reading your own words and explaining how, in a planned socialistic system, anyone is free to exchange value. The companies are told what, and how much, to produce, and it is then distributed regardless of need, value, or even benefit to either party.

Since capitalism features voluntary peaceful economic transactions it is hard to imagine it as exploitive.

Since liberalism or socialism is based on government violence it is easy to imagine that it is naturally exploitive of those who are not in control of the government.

 

[samjones]

... "exploitation" was not coined by Karl Marx...

What we got is the fact that Marx was one of the first to push heavily on the idea that the rich exploited the poor and the those that sold labor were exploited buy those that bought. His key works Das Kapital and The Communist Manifesto focused more on exploitation than Einstein focused on relativity. Marx used the slur "Capitalism" in the sme decade the word first came out in print in Das Kapital --the idea being that those who liked capital didn't like labor.

I will accept that Marx popularized the term "capitalism" in the same way that Einstein popularized the term "relativity". To say that Marx invented the term "exploitation" would be like saying Einstein invented the term "light".

Your assessment of Marx's views is not 100% inaccurate, but I would remind you that Marx never had the opportunity to comment on a socialist of communist country. He was a contemporary of Lincoln, not of Wilson or Roosevelt so we don't really know what he would have thought of these authoritarian regimes that are so infamous.

I think it's pretty fair to say that the Soviet Union failed.

Whatever you make of the connotation of the use of the word "capitalism" it is what we use to describe private ownership of the machinations of the economy - the "means of production". In America, anyone can buy any company... almost any company... and they can own it as long as they live. The government sanctions this concept and enforces it vigorously. That's capitalism.

 

[samjones]

Since capitalism features voluntary peaceful economic transactions it is hard to imagine it as exploitive.

All economic systems feature volunatry peaceful economic transactions. Capitalism is not about economic transactions. It's about who owns the companies.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

...even capitalism, in the real world, is not just an economic system. Politics trumps everything...

No it doesn't.

Doctor says you die unless you get a pint of blood --you say no if the donor's not in political party? Maybe that's how it's going to be if Obamacare gets fully implemented but for now politics has its place and we as individuals choose just how big a place that is.

Politics controls the government and when the government controls where and what we buy and sell the place for politics is enormous. What's more is that "in the real world" government controlled buying and selling is so miserable that people risk their lives and the lives of their families to flee to places where people --not politics-- do the buying and selling.

You are right, I misspoke. In my defense, I was trying to get through to a guy that insists that economics and politics are separate issues.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Since capitalism features voluntary peaceful economic transactions it is hard to imagine it as exploitive.

All economic systems feature volunatry peaceful economic transactions. Capitalism is not about economic transactions. It's about who owns the companies.

You really are hung up on your erroneous definition of economic systems, aren't you. FYI, an economic system is an organized way in which a state or nation allocates its resources and apportions goods and services in the national community, or, in simpler terms, the system of production and distribution and consumption. It does not matter if the trades are voluntary or involuntary, it is still an economic system.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

an economic system is an organized way in which a state or nation allocates its resources.

To conservatives and libertarians people allocate resources through voluntary peaceful transactions. The state does not, having been the source of evil throughout human history, the latest complete century being the best example of this complete liberal horror.

Now you know the principle on which Jefferson created America to be free of liberal evil.

Why not check out Cuba? You seemingly would like it there?