No wonder

Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by theim, Jan 9, 2005.

  1. theim
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    theim Senior Member

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    So it would seem today that the "insurgents" have filmed their roadside bomb hitting a Bradley. And they gave that tape to the someone who gave to the American media and SUPRISE! They are playing it over and over and over on Fox of all places.

    Is this the first time a Bradely got hit? No. Is it the last? No. Was anything particularily remarkable about this one? No. So what is the lesson?

    The lesson is that Mohammed Achmed Hussein al-Kaboom and his little rabble can get some bomb materials, make a most rudimentary devide, and film it blowing something up. Then they instantly get on American TV, and demoralize a good portion of their enemy. And they have known this for a long time. Does this bug the hell out of anyone but me?
     
  2. freeandfun1
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    freeandfun1 VIP Member

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    It doesn't bug me. It pisses me off!
     
  3. Gem
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    Gem BANNED

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    Actually this doesn't bother me as much as a related matter does.

    FoxNews is a business...they make money and are in business to do so...that is clear and obvious. Rupert Murdoch did not start FoxNews to save the world (or the US Military) he started it to make money. Don't blame the snake for being what it is.

    FoxNews and all the others will only show what it knows the people want to see. What pisses me off WAY MORE than the news media showing things that could quite possibly cause more harm to our troops are the idiots and @ssholes in this country who say things like, "Its our right to see these things." Those who demand 24/7 coverage of the Abu Ghraib scandal while scoffing at even one picture of an Iraqi child hugging a soldier who just rebuilt his school or septic system. These are the people who are feeding the machine.
     
  4. Merlin1047
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    Merlin1047 Senior Member

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    Showing the Bradley being hit by a IED is legitimate news from a war zone. I suppose that the commentary which accompanies the images is what makes the difference.

    I have to say that I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand images like this are seized upon by the peace-at-any-price element and exploited for their own purposes. That infuriates me to no end.

    On the other hand, I think that Americans need to see what war is all about. The civilian populace should not be sitting comfortably in front of their televisions thinking that war is some glorious adventure. When we send our military out to fight, the people who support that notion should be intimately aware of the consequences of such a decision. That is the only way to arrive at a valid judgement on whether or not the objective is worth the cost.
     
  5. Gem
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    Gem BANNED

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    Merlin,

    I have to disagree with you on this one. Families did not receive 24 hour a day updates in WWI and WWII. They sent their loved ones to fight knowing that it was the right thing to do and waited for the big news to come back...waited for letters that had been scoured over by the military, any important information removed...how do you think those Americans would have reacted to:

    - live footage of their loved ones with their toes rotting off from living in a waterdrenched trench for weeks on end
    - photographs of their loved ones caught in barbed wire when mustard gas clogged their eyes and lungs
    - video of the paratroops hanging dead from trees because their president had sent them in as "distractions" from the main D-Day invasion...knowing full well that they only had a 1 in 8 chance of surviving?


    Americans, as a whole, understand that sometimes war is neccessary. Bush didn't send us to war with everyone kicking and screaming, he had the authorization of the government and the majority of Americans backing him. However, America is a fortunate nation...possibly the most fortunate nation on earth...it has made us at worst lazy and complacent, at best, comfortable and safe and unwilling to see our children, our families in harms way. When we see the horrors of war up close we can not handle it. And just like we witnessed in Vietnam...and just like we are witnessing now...we start to demand that our troops are brought home before the job is done.

    What you are asking for Merlin...is in essence, asking for all US wars to end much like Vietnam did: the media showing gruesome horrible images again and again and again...and the US people finally saying that they couldn't take it anymore. The only difference will be that it will not matter whether or not the war is just or not...or if failing in the mission set forth will cause the US more pain and sufferring later...
     
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  6. krisy
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    krisy Senior Member

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    I was kind of shocked when I first saw this. It is upsetting,no doubt. I wondered if they should be showing it over and over. I don't know what the right answer is,but my first thought when I saw it was the families of the men on that Bradley.
     
  7. Merlin1047
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    Merlin1047 Senior Member

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    Not at all. I'm simply saying that everyone - especially the civilians who send us off to fight - should be fully aware of what they are asking. If they can't handle it, then perhaps they don't want to fight badly enough. Perhaps videos like this should be shown before the NEXT war. That way a go-no go decision can be made based on reality. Not the video game fantasy that most of the public seems to have regarding war.

    A soldier should go off to war with the full confidence that the people back home support him fully. If you can watch your family member go off to fight, fully aware of what is facing him or her, then you do so because you believe that the cause for which they are fighting is worth the potential pain and suffering. And a few videos on the evening news isn't going to change your mind.

    I believe that a part of the reason a substantial portion of the American public is so fickle is because they have no clue what goes on in a war zone. Then suddenly they see a gruesome video and it's "Oh my God! Bring the troops home!". As far as I'm concerned, the worst thing that can happen to a soldier is to die for nothing and if we allow the vagaries of transient public opinion to stampede us into retreat, then that is exactly what will happen to over one thousand of our troops who did not make it back alive.
     
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  8. Gem
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    Gem BANNED

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    Merlin,

    I think that if you had asked any housewife who's husband was in Germany or Japan during WWII when the outcome of that war was unknown if it was worth it and she had to turn on her television and see:
    - live video of American men lying in pools of their own blood on the beach in Normandy
    - photos of American soldiers stripped naked by looting German troops
    - footage of Japanese soldiers cutting off the heads and hands of US soldiers as "trophies"

    It would have been highly probable that she would have said "HELL NO!"


    How will people respond to this war if, in 50 years we find that it was enormously successful in everything we set out to do?


    I am not implying that the American people should be kept in the dark...but I am saying that the media's obsession, and our obsession, with only the negative aspects of what we are doing is harmful to the troops and harmful to being successful in this war.
     
  9. Merlin1047
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    Merlin1047 Senior Member

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    I understand your point. But I think that if people knew in advance what this was all about, then we would not have such vacillation once we were committed.

    Also I think that more balanced news coverage is key. When was the last time you saw or heard anything about the rebuilding of infrastructure or the interaction of individual Iraqi with our people? Not even Fox carries much of that. Apparently the news media thinks that people are only interested in the blood and guts aspect of the war. And certainly the left uses the negative aspects to advance their own agenda - that's what I really resent most of all.
     
  10. Gem
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    Gem BANNED

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    I can agree with this. However, how do we go to war when we have a large amount of opposition in our own country? Its one thing to ask a citizenry that is almost entirely behind the war (as was much more the case during WWII) to accept the horrors of war than it is to ask a citizenry that is divided between supporting and disagreeing with the war.

    If the President decides that war in necessary, and he is backed by the Government and a small majority of the people...how do we keep the necessary support up if half the people in the nation are looking at these videos and saying "See! See, we TOLD YOU it wouldn't work!"


    Maybe this is the solution to the question. Perhaps if we were allowed to WEIGH the good against the bad we would have an easier time determining what was worth the pain and sufferring war causes? I again, agree with you whole-heartedly that I am furious no news station seems to be interested in showing the good things.
     

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