No gas vehicles in Massachusetts

[Toddsterpatriot]

This will be our future. Each car and house/ building will have their own power plant.

Hydrogen? Awesome!!!

Where should we get it?

water

How do you get the hydrogen from the water?
List the steps.

 

[Wyatt earp]

I see that GM is coming out with an electric Corvette. Problem is the newer vettes are ugly as sin. They look like transformer toys. Or like a Chinese body kit on a Fiero.

Ford is also coming out with the Mustang Mach-E.

https://www.ford.com/suvs/mach-e/

Looks ugly

 

[Flash]

Basic economics:

When a replacement for fossil fuels comes along then it will be economical for everybody to switch.

When the government dictates a replacement that isn't economical then that is a burden on the Economy.

You learn stuff like this in Econ 101.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

This will be our future. Each car and house/ building will have their own power plant.

Hydrogen? Awesome!!!

Where should we get it?

Silly political decisions don't beat physics.

 

[Wyatt earp]

How does it make sense to convert 1 million homes to all electric when America is swimming in natural gas reserves? The strain on their power grid will be enormous.

Natural gas will power a turbine right? Produce power..clean power? I see natural gas as a great bridge to green energy...and to weaning America off of FF vehicles.

first step is prying the FF industry's fingers off of our throats.

Natural gas will power a turbine right? Produce power..clean power?

It currently produces clean home heat. Why lose efficiency by creating electricity first?

Good question..the answer is in the versatility of electricity vs gas. It's not a zero sum game..we can have both.....IMO.

When I use natural gas to heat my home, it's pretty versatile.
And more efficient than generating electricity with natural gas.

Well...no--when you heat with it..that is its end use..and is the opposite of versatile..being tasked to one specific function..two if you cook with it as well.
While I hardly need remind you of the manifold uses for electricity, now do I?

Again, we can, and do, have both applications. Nothing wrong with building all- new natural gas generating facilities--along with scrapping older, less-efficient and polluting old ones as well.

When the smoke clears..the issue is not one of efficiency..but one of entrenched economic interests attempting to hold back the inevitable as long as possible while they reap the profits to that last drop...and then trying to dominate the new game--in their own good time.

Your post is nothing but a conspiracy, fossil fuel spent billions on green energy since the 1970s

 

[Natural Citizen]

Bullshit!!!

I am a retired Environmental Engineer that spent 30 years dealing with the economics of pollution. I am not an expert on climate but I am better read than most of you stupid Moon Bats that don't know your ass from a hole in the ground on things like this.

I did quite a bit of research when I taught a few courses in Environmental Science at the college level after retiring. This man made climate change thingy is nothing more than unadulterated Environmental Wacko bullshit. It is political and not science based. there is absolutely no definitive proof that CO2 at man made levels are having a measurable effect on the climate. None. Nada. Only idiotic non scientific correlations and claims using false data and stupid computer models with shit in and shit out.

There is an economic break point where putting more money into pollution control doesn't make any sense at all.

For instance, when the EPA was formed and we initiated the first CAA, CWA RCRA SDWA, NPDES etc we, in a short period of time. cleaned up 80% of the pollution for 20% of the cost. That was very effective. Then we went after the 15% and that was 40% of the cost. Some people say it was worth it and others not. Now the stupid Environmental idiots want us to clean up the incremental amounts of pollution left at great economic cost and it ain't worth it by any reasonable measurement.

The US spends as much as the rest of the world combined in pollution control and environmental restoration. If you want to go after the real polluters in the world go after China Joe's Chicom buddies, not the people of Massachusetts. You know who the Chicom's are don't you? They are the ones that made Hunter (Bag Boy) Biden's cocaine dealer so rich.

As far as a stupid Green economy. That is a good way to destroy an economy. Just look at Spain as an example. They decided to create a Green economy and they came damn close to going bankrupt. It fails in every country.

California is a great example here in the states. It use to be the Golden States when the Conservatives were in charge. However, now with Democrat control and many stupid Green initiatives not only do they have rolling black outs but they lead the country in poverty, worst education, most debt and most regulations. People are leaving by the droves every day.

Green economics dictated by the stupid politically motivated Democrats and supported by you stupid Moon Bats will destroy an economy. Environmental wacko initiatives will always fail because they have to be subsidized by the government instead of relying on market forces.

Of course you Moon Bats don't know any more about Economics than you know about Climate Science, History, Biology, Ethics or the Constitution, do you?

Very good post.

I'd just add that government cannot invest in anything. That's a fallacy. It can only take and redistribute. The government does not produce anything. Therefore it has nothing.

Look at the mess government created with ethanol from corn. It subsidized the corn farmers and that killed other renawables. Then the morons finally figured out that it takes more energy to produce ethanol than you get from burning it. And that's not even considering how much food they took off of tables for the corn ethanol. Less food for feeding livestock and dairy cows as well. That ultimately drove up food prices.

A good start would be stop subsidizing the oil companies and quit going to war over perceived oil interests. Let the oil rise to its natural price and there would be a huge market to find alternative resources.

But, yeah. You're right. Moonbats gonna be moonbats. Most of it just empty regurgitation that they don't even understand.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Bullshit!!!

I am a retired Environmental Engineer that spent 30 years dealing with the economics of pollution. I am not an expert on climate but I am better read than most of you stupid Moon Bats that don't know your ass from a hole in the ground on things like this.

I did quite a bit of research when I taught a few courses in Environmental Science at the college level after retiring. This man made climate change thingy is nothing more than unadulterated Environmental Wacko bullshit. It is political and not science based. there is absolutely no definitive proof that CO2 at man made levels are having a measurable effect on the climate. None. Nada. Only idiotic non scientific correlations and claims using false data and stupid computer models with shit in and shit out.

There is an economic break point where putting more money into pollution control doesn't make any sense at all.

For instance, when the EPA was formed and we initiated the first CAA, CWA RCRA SDWA, NPDES etc we, in a short period of time. cleaned up 80% of the pollution for 20% of the cost. That was very effective. Then we went after the 15% and that was 40% of the cost. Some people say it was worth it and others not. Now the stupid Environmental idiots want us to clean up the incremental amounts of pollution left at great economic cost and it ain't worth it by any reasonable measurement.

The US spends as much as the rest of the world combined in pollution control and environmental restoration. If you want to go after the real polluters in the world go after China Joe's Chicom buddies, not the people of Massachusetts. You know who the Chicom's are don't you? They are the ones that made Hunter (Bag Boy) Biden's cocaine dealer so rich.

As far as a stupid Green economy. That is a good way to destroy an economy. Just look at Spain as an example. They decided to create a Green economy and they came damn close to going bankrupt. It fails in every country.

California is a great example here in the states. It use to be the Golden States when the Conservatives were in charge. However, now with Democrat control and many stupid Green initiatives not only do they have rolling black outs but they lead the country in poverty, worst education, most debt and most regulations. People are leaving by the droves every day.

Green economics dictated by the stupid politically motivated Democrats and supported by you stupid Moon Bats will destroy an economy. Environmental wacko initiatives will always fail because they have to be subsidized by the government instead of relying on market forces.

Of course you Moon Bats don't know any more about Economics than you know about Climate Science, History, Biology, Ethics or the Constitution, do you?

Very good post.

I'd just add that government cannot invest in anything. That's a fallacy. It can only take and redistribute. The government does not produce anything. Therefore it has nothing.

Look at the mess government created with ethanol from corn. It subsidized the corn farmers and that killed other renawables. Then the morons finally figured out that it takes more energy to produce ethanol than you get from burning it. And that's not even considering how much food they took off of tables for the corn ethanol. Less food for feeding livestock and dairy cows as well. That ultimately drove up food prices.

A good start would be stop subsidizing the oil companies and quit going to war over perceived oil interests. Let the oil rise to its natural price and there would be a huge market to find alternative resources.

But, yeah. You're right. Moonbats gonna be moonbats. Most of it just empty regurgitation that they don't even understand.

Look at the mess government created with ethanol from corn. It subsidized the corn farmers and that killed other renawables. Then the morons finally figured out that it takes more energy to produce ethanol than you get from burning it. And that's not even considering how much food they took off of tables for the corn ethanol. Less food for feeding livestock and dairy cows as well. That ultimately drove up food prices.

Stop making sense!

A good start would be stop subsidizing the oil companies

What subsidies?

 

[Natural Citizen]

Silly political decisions don't beat physics.

To be fair, Newtonians are relatively poor representatives for physics. They're actually the ones who keep political decisions relevant. Newtonians are to physics what Keynesians are to free-markets. Not very good representatives in either instance. But yeah. I wouldn't give a bucket of piss for political decisions.

 

[ReinyDays]

What I’m really waiting to see is how they are going to force us all to electric heat/hot water. Especially those of us who live in the areas of Municipal or small private electric companies. National Grid and Eversource may be able to subsidize customers converting. Unitil and the municipal electric companies won’t be able to.

Do you expect your gas-fired appliances to last forever? ... it's rather easy to run 10-guage romex from your service entrance to your water heater ... gas ranges are probably here to stay, many people swear by them AND they don't use all that much gas for a family of four or five ...

Converting to electric heat is a whole 'nother kittle of fish ... this is something to be done during a complete re-wiring of the home ... best is individual heaters in each room, and that's a lot of wires running through the walls ... but if there's already a central forced fan system installed, swapping that out with an electric version would need a big heavy 6-guage cables (?) ...

Is your insulation up to current code? ... windows and doors air tight? ... these items should be first on your list ... once done, it may not matter if you use electricity of natural gas ... use whatever is locally available ... it's a thousand miles to the closest gas well, but the hydro-turbines are just down the road apace for me ...

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

This will be our future. Each car and house/ building will have their own power plant.

Hydrogen? Awesome!!!

Where should we get it?

Why is a hydrogen fuel cell electric vehicle better than a battery electric vehicle?

 

[Flash]

Bullshit!!!

I am a retired Environmental Engineer that spent 30 years dealing with the economics of pollution. I am not an expert on climate but I am better read than most of you stupid Moon Bats that don't know your ass from a hole in the ground on things like this.

I did quite a bit of research when I taught a few courses in Environmental Science at the college level after retiring. This man made climate change thingy is nothing more than unadulterated Environmental Wacko bullshit. It is political and not science based. there is absolutely no definitive proof that CO2 at man made levels are having a measurable effect on the climate. None. Nada. Only idiotic non scientific correlations and claims using false data and stupid computer models with shit in and shit out.

There is an economic break point where putting more money into pollution control doesn't make any sense at all.

For instance, when the EPA was formed and we initiated the first CAA, CWA RCRA SDWA, NPDES etc we, in a short period of time. cleaned up 80% of the pollution for 20% of the cost. That was very effective. Then we went after the 15% and that was 40% of the cost. Some people say it was worth it and others not. Now the stupid Environmental idiots want us to clean up the incremental amounts of pollution left at great economic cost and it ain't worth it by any reasonable measurement.

The US spends as much as the rest of the world combined in pollution control and environmental restoration. If you want to go after the real polluters in the world go after China Joe's Chicom buddies, not the people of Massachusetts. You know who the Chicom's are don't you? They are the ones that made Hunter (Bag Boy) Biden's cocaine dealer so rich.

As far as a stupid Green economy. That is a good way to destroy an economy. Just look at Spain as an example. They decided to create a Green economy and they came damn close to going bankrupt. It fails in every country.

California is a great example here in the states. It use to be the Golden States when the Conservatives were in charge. However, now with Democrat control and many stupid Green initiatives not only do they have rolling black outs but they lead the country in poverty, worst education, most debt and most regulations. People are leaving by the droves every day.

Green economics dictated by the stupid politically motivated Democrats and supported by you stupid Moon Bats will destroy an economy. Environmental wacko initiatives will always fail because they have to be subsidized by the government instead of relying on market forces.

Of course you Moon Bats don't know any more about Economics than you know about Climate Science, History, Biology, Ethics or the Constitution, do you?

Very good post.

I'd just add that government cannot invest in anything. That's a fallacy. It can only take and redistribute. The government does not produce anything. Therefore it has nothing.

Look at the mess government created with ethanol from corn. It subsidized the corn farmers and that killed other renawables. Then the morons finally figured out that it takes more energy to produce ethanol than you get from burning it. And that's not even considering how much food they took off of tables for the corn ethanol. Less food for feeding livestock and dairy cows as well. That ultimately drove up food prices.

A good start would be stop subsidizing the oil companies and quit going to war over perceived oil interests. Let the oil rise to its natural price and there would be a huge market to find alternative resources.

But, yeah. You're right. Moonbats gonna be moonbats. Most of it just empty regurgitation that they don't even understand.

How can any of these Moon Bats think that when the government dictates a technology that cost more than it replaces be good for the economy? We know they are stupid but how stupid is that?

That idiot China Joe says he is going to "create" millions of Green jobs and these stupid uneducated Moon Bats believe him.

These "jobs" are like the jobs created under the Dumbass Negro/China Joe administration when hundreds of millions in subsidies were given to Solyndra. The taxpayers got jackshit for their money.

The taxpayers of Kalifornia are getting rolling blackouts and the nation's hightest cost of fuel (in addition to high taxation) as a reward for electing idiots that ran on a Green platform. That doesn't even include adding $40K to the cost of a new home for those stupid uneconomical solar panels.

.

 

[Flash]

Bullshit!!!

I am a retired Environmental Engineer that spent 30 years dealing with the economics of pollution. I am not an expert on climate but I am better read than most of you stupid Moon Bats that don't know your ass from a hole in the ground on things like this.

I did quite a bit of research when I taught a few courses in Environmental Science at the college level after retiring. This man made climate change thingy is nothing more than unadulterated Environmental Wacko bullshit. It is political and not science based. there is absolutely no definitive proof that CO2 at man made levels are having a measurable effect on the climate. None. Nada. Only idiotic non scientific correlations and claims using false data and stupid computer models with shit in and shit out.

There is an economic break point where putting more money into pollution control doesn't make any sense at all.

For instance, when the EPA was formed and we initiated the first CAA, CWA RCRA SDWA, NPDES etc we, in a short period of time. cleaned up 80% of the pollution for 20% of the cost. That was very effective. Then we went after the 15% and that was 40% of the cost. Some people say it was worth it and others not. Now the stupid Environmental idiots want us to clean up the incremental amounts of pollution left at great economic cost and it ain't worth it by any reasonable measurement.

The US spends as much as the rest of the world combined in pollution control and environmental restoration. If you want to go after the real polluters in the world go after China Joe's Chicom buddies, not the people of Massachusetts. You know who the Chicom's are don't you? They are the ones that made Hunter (Bag Boy) Biden's cocaine dealer so rich.

As far as a stupid Green economy. That is a good way to destroy an economy. Just look at Spain as an example. They decided to create a Green economy and they came damn close to going bankrupt. It fails in every country.

California is a great example here in the states. It use to be the Golden States when the Conservatives were in charge. However, now with Democrat control and many stupid Green initiatives not only do they have rolling black outs but they lead the country in poverty, worst education, most debt and most regulations. People are leaving by the droves every day.

Green economics dictated by the stupid politically motivated Democrats and supported by you stupid Moon Bats will destroy an economy. Environmental wacko initiatives will always fail because they have to be subsidized by the government instead of relying on market forces.

Of course you Moon Bats don't know any more about Economics than you know about Climate Science, History, Biology, Ethics or the Constitution, do you?

Very good post.

I'd just add that government cannot invest in anything. That's a fallacy. It can only take and redistribute. The government does not produce anything. Therefore it has nothing.

Look at the mess government created with ethanol from corn. It subsidized the corn farmers and that killed other renawables. Then the morons finally figured out that it takes more energy to produce ethanol than you get from burning it. And that's not even considering how much food they took off of tables for the corn ethanol. Less food for feeding livestock and dairy cows as well. That ultimately drove up food prices.

A good start would be stop subsidizing the oil companies and quit going to war over perceived oil interests. Let the oil rise to its natural price and there would be a huge market to find alternative resources.

But, yeah. You're right. Moonbats gonna be moonbats. Most of it just empty regurgitation that they don't even understand.

Look at the mess government created with ethanol from corn. It subsidized the corn farmers and that killed other renawables. Then the morons finally figured out that it takes more energy to produce ethanol than you get from burning it. And that's not even considering how much food they took off of tables for the corn ethanol. Less food for feeding livestock and dairy cows as well. That ultimately drove up food prices.

Stop making sense!

A good start would be stop subsidizing the oil companies

What subsidies?

More energy to produce ethanol that it generates. One of the great Environmental Wacko scams.

That doesn't even include how much damage that shit does to small engines.

 

[ReinyDays]

More energy to produce ethanol that it generates. One of the great Environmental Wacko scams.
That doesn't even include how much damage that shit does to small engines.

We would build ethanol-specific engines ... works well where there's plenty of hydro-power and an abundance of sugar cane ... like Brazil ...

Never for use on water though ...

 

[Natural Citizen]

How can any of these Moon Bats think that when the government dictates a technology that cost more than it replaces be good for the economy? We know they are stupid but how stupid is that?

That idiot China Joe says he is going to "create" millions of Green jobs and these stupid uneducated Moon Bats believe him.

These "jobs" are like the jobs created under the Dumbass Negro/China Joe administration when hundreds of millions in subsidies were given to Solyndra. The taxpayers got jackshit for their money.

The taxpayers of Kalifornia are getting rolling blackouts and the nation's hightest cost of fuel (in addition to high taxation) as a reward for electing idiots that ran on a Green platform. That doesn't even include adding $40K to the cost of a new home for those stupid uneconomical solar panels.

.

Well. This is going to be a lazy response. But it's true. I think that people just want to be led. I think it really is that simple. I've met very, very few who could even discuss the propaganda they regurgitate in any way that indicates that they understand what they're regurgitating. Maybe 1 in 100. And they always fall short because the principle itself fails.

 

[Natural Citizen]

That doesn't even include how much damage that shit does to small engines.

Yeah, forgot about that. I went through quite a few leaf blowers and weed whackers. Two mowers.

I've been going to Pa for non ethanol.

 

[flack]

This will be our future. Each car and house/ building will have their own power plant.

Hydrogen? Awesome!!!

Where should we get it?

Why is a hydrogen fuel cell electric vehicle better than a battery electric vehicle?

The mining of the materials is nasty plus they cost a lot to replace.

 

[flack]

This will be our future. Each car and house/ building will have their own power plant.

Hydrogen? Awesome!!!

Where should we get it?

water

How do you get the hydrogen from the water?
List the steps.

 

[Flash]

What I’m really waiting to see is how they are going to force us all to electric heat/hot water. Especially those of us who live in the areas of Municipal or small private electric companies. National Grid and Eversource may be able to subsidize customers converting. Unitil and the municipal electric companies won’t be able to.

Do you expect your gas-fired appliances to last forever? ... it's rather easy to run 10-guage romex from your service entrance to your water heater ... gas ranges are probably here to stay, many people swear by them AND they don't use all that much gas for a family of four or five ...

Converting to electric heat is a whole 'nother kittle of fish ... this is something to be done during a complete re-wiring of the home ... best is individual heaters in each room, and that's a lot of wires running through the walls ... but if there's already a central forced fan system installed, swapping that out with an electric version would need a big heavy 6-guage cables (?) ...

Is your insulation up to current code? ... windows and doors air tight? ... these items should be first on your list ... once done, it may not matter if you use electricity of natural gas ... use whatever is locally available ... it's a thousand miles to the closest gas well, but the hydro-turbines are just down the road apace for me ...

Do you think those stupid Environmental Wackos understand things like that? Do you think they even care?

Natural gas is one of the cleanest fuels on the planet. Whatever they use at the power plant to generate the electricity to run the appliances and to charge the electric cars will be worse.

 

[Flash]

That doesn't even include how much damage that shit does to small engines.

Yeah, forgot about that. I went through quite a few leaf blowers and weed whackers. Two mowers.

I've been going to Pa for non ethanol.

Fortunately I don't live too far from a Wawa station that sells ethanol free gas. Of course it cost 50 cents more a gallon.

I even put it in my truck. Being retired I don't put many miles on my vehicles. My 2013 Trundra only has 28K miles on it. Sometimes my truck will sit for a week or two without being used. I burn non ethanol gas in it because it is better for the engine.

 

[Anathema]

Do you expect your gas-fired appliances to last forever? ... it's rather easy to run 10-guage romex from your service entrance to your water heater ... gas ranges are probably here to stay, many people swear by them AND they don't use all that much gas for a family of four or five ...

Converting to electric heat is a whole 'nother kittle of fish ... this is something to be done during a complete re-wiring of the home ... best is individual heaters in each room, and that's a lot of wires running through the walls ... but if there's already a central forced fan system installed, swapping that out with an electric version would need a big heavy 6-guage cables (?) ...

Is your insulation up to current code? ... windows and doors air tight? ... these items should be first on your list ... once done, it may not matter if you use electricity of natural gas ... use whatever is locally available ... it's a thousand miles to the closest gas well, but the hydro-turbines are just down the road apace for me ...

I live in a duplex built in 193 0. I have a single 100 amp service that feeds both sides of the building. We still have the meters in my basement. We forced the previous owner to remove the VISIBLE knob and tube wiring. Roughly half my outlets have a ground. The entire house needs to be rewired.

my entire neighborhood is the same way. One single phase overhead transformer feeds about 10-12 houses. The entire electric system around here needs to be torn down and rebuilt.,The utility company I work for hasn’t built stuff this way since the 1950s. The company thst serves my house doesn’t have the money to do maintenance, never mind upgrades.,