New research on Arctic methane

[dilloduck]

Look up methane clathrate on google. Not ussually found in surface ice, but rather in ice pods and layers in the sediment of the ocean floor on continental shelves.

So what ? It also bubbles up in the Gulf of Mexico.

 

[Old Rocks]

that had been proposed, but the enviro wackos protested

Bullshit. Drilling the clathrates could lead to a whole lot of unintended consequences. Such as undersea slides such as occurred at Storegga. Complete with massive releases of methane.

 

[Old Rocks]

So what ? It also bubbles up in the Gulf of Mexico.

Yes, there are huge deposits in the Gulf of Mexico. And there are occasional releases. However, what we are seeing in the Artic, is a release over the whole shelf. One that we can measure on site, and in the rise of CH4 in the whole atmosphere. One that was not happening when the last measuring was done. And the summation of the research will be published Journal of Geophysics. That is a peer reviewed scientific journal.

 

[dilloduck]

Yes, there are huge deposits in the Gulf of Mexico. And there are occasional releases. However, what we are seeing in the Artic, is a release over the whole shelf. One that we can measure on site, and in the rise of CH4 in the whole atmosphere. One that was not happening when the last measuring was done. And the summation of the research will be published Journal of Geophysics. That is a peer reviewed scientific journal.

As I said--so what ? Is it going to explode ?

 

[Old Rocks]

As I said--so what ? Is it going to explode ?

Are you really this ignorant?

 

[dilloduck]

Are you really this ignorant?

no--I wanna know if you're ignorant enough to think we can stop it .

 

[DiveCon]

Bullshit. Drilling the clathrates could lead to a whole lot of unintended consequences. Such as undersea slides such as occurred at Storegga. Complete with massive releases of methane.

thank you for proving my point

btw, who the fuck said anything about "drilling" it
time for you morons to think outside the box for a change

 

[dilloduck]

thank you for proving my point

btw, who the fuck said anything about "drilling" it
time for you morons to think outside the box for a change

Guess what DC---the world is a dangerous and fragile place. It's not even going to support human life forever.

 

[DiveCon]

Guess what DC---the world is a dangerous and fragile place. It's not even going to support human life forever.

the point being, they don't even know what caused the slide he referenced, yet hes saying attempting to harvest it is impossible

 

[Old Rocks]

the point being, they don't even know what caused the slide he referenced, yet hes saying attempting to harvest it is impossible

Well no, Dingbat, I am not saying that it is impossible. But it is fraught with danger. And, when we burn it, we are creating more GHGs.

 

[Old Rocks]

no--I wanna know if you're ignorant enough to think we can stop it .

By all appearances, we started it. Can we stop it? At this point, I really don't know. Even if we were to cease most GHG emmissions in a decade, have we already passed the tipping point? Nobody really knows. And, by all appearances, all too few care. After all, it is only our children and grandchildren that will get to fully enjoy the effects of an adrupt climate change. And they don't really matter do they?

 

[editec]

By all appearances, we started it. Can we stop it? At this point, I really don't know. Even if we were to cease most GHG emmissions in a decade, have we already passed the tipping point? Nobody really knows. And, by all appearances, all too few care. After all, it is only our children and grandchildren that will get to fully enjoy the effects of an adrupt climate change. And they don't really matter do they?

Sins of the fathers...

 

[Caligirl]

Bullshit. Drilling the clathrates could lead to a whole lot of unintended consequences. Such as undersea slides such as occurred at Storegga. Complete with massive releases of methane.

Clathrates and methane seeps are not the same thing. We were (I believe) talking about harnessing methane seepage not mining clathrates.

 

[Caligirl]

no--I wanna know if you're ignorant enough to think we can stop it .

It would be nice to try to do the right thing even if we might not succeed. The question to my way of thinking is whether we will try, not whether it will work, and the discussion should be about what the actual consequences would be and the best and safest (most conservative) way forward.

There are real risks to remaining dependent on fossil fuels (a limited resource) and foreign fossil fuels (bargaining chip for hostile countries). There are risks to switching to sustainables (economic, perhaps, etc)

I am a strong proponent of solar, everyone agrees that warming is due to solar radiation, so it should be obvious that the sun is hitting us with us tons of energy every day. But we don't know the environmental costs of generating the panels, etc, so a balanced portfolio including remaining on fossil fuels while other risks are determined from sustainables, seems reasonable.

But, not doing anything, seems like we are defeatist.

 

[Tech_Esq]

It would be nice to try to do the right thing even if we might not succeed. The question to my way of thinking is whether we will try, not whether it will work, and the discussion should be about what the actual consequences would be and the best and safest (most conservative) way forward.

There are real risks to remaining dependent on fossil fuels (a limited resource) and foreign fossil fuels (bargaining chip for hostile countries). There are risks to switching to sustainables (economic, perhaps, etc)

I am a strong proponent of solar, everyone agrees that warming is due to solar radiation, so it should be obvious that the sun is hitting us with us tons of energy every day. But we don't know the environmental costs of generating the panels, etc, so a balanced portfolio including remaining on fossil fuels while other risks are determined from sustainables, seems reasonable.

But, not doing anything, seems like we are defeatist.

If you want to do something, why not do something that everyone can agree on that will make a significant difference? There are thousands of coal fires burning unrestrained throughout the world. These are polluting the air with every imaginable pollutant including GHGs. Figure out how to extinguish them.

I don't think anyone will be against it. But, until people start tackling these obvious win-wins.....I'm not in favor of anything that actually impacts the way people live or the money they pay for things. If they are ignoring coal fires and trying to do "cap and trade" and other BS, they are not being honest. That says to me that this is more about power, control and money, then any serious attempt to influence the climate.

 

[Caligirl]

If you want to do something, why not do something that everyone can agree on that will make a significant difference? There are thousands of coal fires burning unrestrained throughout the world. These are polluting the air with every imaginable pollutant including GHGs. Figure out how to extinguish them.

I don't think anyone will be against it. But, until people start tackling these obvious win-wins.....I'm not in favor of anything that actually impacts the way people live or the money they pay for things. If they are ignoring coal fires and trying to do "cap and trade" and other BS, they are not being honest. That says to me that this is more about power, control and money, then any serious attempt to influence the climate.

Sure, sounds good.

FTR, a lot of people are doing things to reduce consumption etc in their own lives.

 

[DiveCon]

Well no, Dingbat, I am not saying that it is impossible. But it is fraught with danger. And, when we burn it, we are creating more GHGs.

it seeping out naturally is putting GHG into the air anyway
why not use it and in the process put LESS GHG in the air
and help ease the energy crunch


sounds like its YOU that's the dingbat
fucking moron

 

[DiveCon]

Clathrates and methane seeps are not the same thing. We were (I believe) talking about harnessing methane seepage not mining clathrates.

we could do both
no one even knows what caused that slide he mentioned
hes pulling disconnected facts and trying to tie them together

 

[Caligirl]

Well, we could but that is probably where you and I would have a different opinion.

Methane seepage and generally methane emissions are contributing to GHG in the atmosphere, but clathrates are essentially sunk carbon.

I wouldn't want to un-sink carbon if we don't need to. but if some is already heading for the atmosphere (methane buubbles, etc) then we might as well use it before it outgasses.

basically, I'd put clathrates into the same category as fossil fuels, we should leave it alone where it's not doing any harm. Develop sustainable energy as much as possible as long as THAT isn't doing any harm.

But YMMV.

 

[DiveCon]

Well, we could but that is probably where you and I would have a different opinion.

Methane seepage and generally methane emissions are contributing to GHG in the atmosphere, but clathrates are essentially sunk carbon.

I wouldn't want to un-sink carbon if we don't need to. but if some is already heading for the atmosphere (methane buubbles, etc) then we might as well use it before it outgasses.

basically, I'd put clathrates into the same category as fossil fuels, we should leave it alone where it's not doing any harm. Develop sustainable energy as much as possible as long as THAT isn't doing any harm.

But YMMV.

while i can agree with that, if "sunk" carbon is removed from the ocean, then the ocean can absorb more
this world is a closed ecosystem
whats here is here