Nationalism Vs. Rationalism

Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by NATO AIR, Jan 17, 2006.

  1. NATO AIR
    Offline

    NATO AIR Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2004
    Messages:
    4,275
    Thanks Received:
    282
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    USS Abraham Lincoln
    Ratings:
    +282
    Your thoughts on this point by Thomas PM Barnett, noted strategist and author of "The Pentagon's New Map" & "Blueprint For Action".

    I am inclined to begin to agree with him, especially considering the long-term probability that Iran will get nukes, one way or another.

    I wonder if its better to let them have it now, in a responsible and carefully monitored manner, and defuse a leading source of support for the hardliners.

    Make America the nation that opens Iran up to the world again, and see what happens.

    Because, in the long run, it seems we're going to be dealing with a nuclear Iran regardless. Better to have it on positive terms for us and our relationship with their people than a long, drawn out negative failure of our already failed anti-proliferation policy.

    The genie is out of the bottle. Will we try vainly and unsucessfully to stuff it back in or let it out, benefiting as best we can when possible.
     
  2. liberalogic
    Offline

    liberalogic Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    539
    Thanks Received:
    48
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    NJ
    Ratings:
    +49
    I see what you're saying; the only thing that scares me are his aggressive threats to Israel and the US as well. That seems to exceed the line of using them for defense (as Barnett says) and unprovoked offense.

    Regardless of that, though, I ABSOLUTELY LOVE this statement:

    "Make America the nation that opens Iran up to the world again, and see what happens."

    I could not have said that better myself...you are right on the money in my opinion....instead of threatening with war, let's try to rationalize. Great point!
     
  3. manu1959
    Offline

    manu1959 Left Coast Isolationist

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2004
    Messages:
    13,761
    Thanks Received:
    1,625
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    california
    Ratings:
    +1,626
    damn...i thought we were asking iran not to develope nukes and wipe israel off the face of the earth....so what we really want is for them to stop being iran and start being what? the koran belt?
     
  4. theHawk
    Offline

    theHawk Registered Conservative

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    10,911
    Thanks Received:
    2,072
    Trophy Points:
    280
    Location:
    Germany
    Ratings:
    +5,801
    What if they don't want to be opened. Instead of generic feel-good statements how about you tell us how any civilized society is supposed to "rationalize" with a man who says Isreal should be "wiped off the map".
    The situation in Iran should could use alot of rationality, but your implying its the U.S. is being irrational towards a leader who has called for the destruction of Isreal/Jews....something that hasn't happened since Hitler?
     
  5. liberalogic
    Offline

    liberalogic Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    539
    Thanks Received:
    48
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    NJ
    Ratings:
    +49
    That land does belong to the Arabs, needless to say though, they have gone to extremes to get it back. And I think it's not about the US not being uneasonable, it's about just trying to negotiate with them for the sake of humanity.
     
  6. NATO AIR
    Offline

    NATO AIR Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2004
    Messages:
    4,275
    Thanks Received:
    282
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    USS Abraham Lincoln
    Ratings:
    +282
    Their leadership is irrational, not the majority of the people.

    Sanctions do not work.
     
  7. Gunny
    Offline

    Gunny Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2004
    Messages:
    44,689
    Thanks Received:
    6,753
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Location:
    The Republic of Texas
    Ratings:
    +6,770
    I have to disagree. Rational is not allowing an organization/government possess nuclear weapons when they have proven time and again that if they don't get their way, they are more than willing to blow themselves up to blow us up to.

    Comparatively, the Cold War was easy. The Soviet bloc feared being attacked every bit as much as we do so you had a standoff. Not so with Islamic fundamentalists who think there is some reward if they are destroyed striking at us.

    And this "see what happens" as applied to nuclear weapons doesn't make it with me either. That's a Hell of gamble with a LOT of lives in the balance.
     
  8. manu1959
    Offline

    manu1959 Left Coast Isolationist

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2004
    Messages:
    13,761
    Thanks Received:
    1,625
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    california
    Ratings:
    +1,626
    why does the land belong to the arabs? who sold it to them?

    you are welcome to negotiate all you want...when their missle is done, they will launch it at israel....what would you like to wager?
     
  9. NATO AIR
    Offline

    NATO AIR Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2004
    Messages:
    4,275
    Thanks Received:
    282
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    USS Abraham Lincoln
    Ratings:
    +282

    Persians and Arabs... two very different groups of people.


    By and large, most Persians do not have the same anthema feeling about Jews that Arabs do... only their crazed fundamentalist leaders.

    Persians are less linked to religious unity than Arabs are. Percieve the pragmatic foreign policy of Iran, which enjoys strong relations with a Christian country, Armenia, far more than their other former Soviet neighbor, Azeribijadan. (sp?).

    In a future world, an Israeli-Turkish-Iranian alliance is not out of the question, particulary if Egypt and Saudi are ruled by Islamic fundamentalists as is expected in the future.
     
  10. Gunny
    Offline

    Gunny Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2004
    Messages:
    44,689
    Thanks Received:
    6,753
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Location:
    The Republic of Texas
    Ratings:
    +6,770
    Question of the day: How do you separate the people of Iran from it's government?
     

Share This Page