National standards in K-12 education

Discussion in 'Education' started by chanel, Dec 9, 2011.

  1. chanel
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    chanel Silver Member

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    PARCC States | PARCC

    Today I attended a workshop on the common core curriculum standards which were adopted by NJ last year (unbeknownst to the teachers) and will be implemented next Sept. The NJ state assessment "High School Proficiency Test" will be replaced by the "PARCC".

    No one could answer my question about HOW MUCH THIS WILL COST THE TAXPAYERS OF NJ. No one could explain why the taxpapers of NJ were now being ask to PAY FOR A NATIONAL TEST. No one wanted to discuss whether or not we are now moving toward a FEDERAL EDUCATION system, as opposed to a state one.

    I realize these are big questions, with big implications for the future, and a big price tag. No one likes to answer big questions, and I wouldn't be surprised if I'm called into the principal's office because I had the AUDACITY to ask. So I will ask the smart people here on USMB what you think.

    Are we heading toward a nationalized educational system, and if so, is that reasonable and/or doable?

    Disgusted right now. :(
     
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  2. Jackson
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    Jackson Gold Member Supporting Member

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    Being in education for 32 years, I say "YES!" to a National Standardized test. I am familiar with some states and the tests they use to determine proficiency in all core areas. The state's tests often offer watered down versions of a National Standardized Test to show better results.

    The standards, I feel, shouild be the same in all school systems and in all states. Only then could you properly evaluate the students progress, but the proficiency of the school system.

    I don't think the federal government should be involved in any other area except National Testing.

    I also feel that classroom teachers should not be proctoring the classes while taking the tests. Tests should not be seen by the teacher before the testing and all materials should be taken with the Testing Practioners.

    Expensive? Yes. But properly evaluating students and schools are our only hope of uniform guidelines. Then, get the unions out of education, do not pass students without mastering core subject matter in each grade, and take ineffective teachers out of the systems. There are too many good teachers waiting to fill the voids.

    Just my opinion.
     
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  3. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    I believe that national achievement testing would be very beneficial.

    However making outcomes from that part of some funding scheme is a very bad idea.
     
  4. chanel
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    chanel Silver Member

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    I agree with both of you that a national test would be beneficial for a number of reasons. Under NCLB, the feds were comparing apples to oranges. I always said I'd like to see how Alabama or Mississippi kids would do on the NJ test. But only half the states have signed on, which will skew the statistics again.

    This is my issue. We are in a recession. People are losing their jobs, homes, etc. School budgets are being slashed and programs are being cut. Is this the right time?

    I just want to know what the price tag is. We have a lot of backlash about the cost of public education in this country, and I think it's only fair that the public be informed of how much these new changes will cost. It may mean new textbooks, new testing materials, new curriculum, new training, etc. And shouldn't the parents be given a "heads up" on what the new test will entail?

    I also think we are headed toward a federal educational system as opposed to a state one. I can see that issue being highly political and ugly.

    BTW- A little "fun fact" that I picked up on. In all the standards for every grade level and subject they used the term ENGLISH literacy. That should save a few bucks I guess.
     
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  5. Trajan
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    Trajan conscientia mille testes

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    well, we both know that the dept. of education has a huge amount of leverage etc etc....


    and no, states rights ala education usually trump the dept of ed. BUT then, as I said above, they have money leverage, you play along, more fed dollars will finds its way to the state system. This has gone on since the 60's after Brown really got going and when it was made a cabinet level position in 1980.

    Its not all nefarious either, the reactions of some admins that demand a ( and in some cases poorly constructed) national standard are I think to some extent, thats SOME extent knee jerk answers to the fact that many districts are failing their students and they feel the need to correct that. when in fact the answer is right before their eyes. Vouchers and Charters.

    here I will give a shout out to Obama, not that he has done a great deal for charters/voucher prgms., ( and in DC stood aside while their vouchers were defunded) who btw just celebrated a milestone, they have gone over the 2 Million student mark, but has played a crafty game, paying homage to the NEA etc. and yet not getting fowled up in and adding any drags on the voucher charter prgm's. Thats saying a lot for a Democrat, he apparently has threaded the needle. Either way, kudos.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2011
  6. chanel
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    chanel Silver Member

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    Interesting that you say that Trajan. 10 of the 12 "PARCC governing states" (those that came up with the standards), were "Race to the Top" recipients. Yet, when I asked if the feds were paying for it, the presenter said "No".

    I do agree that "some districts are failing their students" but there is probably no better example than NJ where we have some of the best schools in the country and some of the worst. All with the same curriculum; same teacher qualifications; and money out the wazoo. I fail to see that "changing the standards" will improve those schools. We all know what the problems are, and they are not "lack of standards".

    I suspect Texas will never sign on. And in five years, when the data shows that nothing has changed, something new will come down the pike. And they wonder why teachers are so cynical. :eusa_whistle:
     
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  7. random3434
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    random3434 Senior Member

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    Yep...teachers can't perform miracles when the PARENTS don't give a $hit about their child's education, or put all the blame on the teachers for their child's behaviors and academic laziness.

    So the state, now the feds, keep trying to change things up with new "Testing" strategies, when what they really need to be doing is teaching/helping parents be more involved in their child's education.
     
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  8. Trajan
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    Trajan conscientia mille testes

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    yup and thats why I would really prefer and was on board and lauded Obamas race to the top, then, the NEA went to work on him and they started flattening out their prerogatives on who gets money or not. Now its half baked, it should be called race half way to the top.

    I usually am not in favor of top down solutions. the states should be block granted and, be FREE to administer it of ANY pressure etc. BUT thats not the way it works sadly.
     
  9. Two Thumbs
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    Two Thumbs Platinum Member

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    Everything the Fed does is over budget and under performed.

    so if this is leading to something run by the Fed, our kids are screwed.

    under the DOE or international rankings went from top Five to Eighteen last year.

    Let states compete, let counties in those states compete and let school districts compete for top honors.

    And end mandatory attendance after age 14. The students that care will have a better chance to suceede.
     
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  10. Jackson
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    Jackson Gold Member Supporting Member

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    When parents and teahers work together, they can do great work in helping the children follow the right path. It's the encouragement and pride instilled that works the miracles!

    YOu know, the startegies of new testing isn't the problems. We could use the standardized test of years ago and be better off. The continued lowering of standards that are the problem. If educators would keep the standards of performance higher for promotion to the next grade, we wouldn't see that 8th graders cannot read above the fourth grade.

    In no schools should the parents have any right in determining the whether their child is promoted. This is where unbiased grading on the proper scales must be performed by the teacher and verified by the standardized tests.

    The early grades , K-3 should be focusing on reading, writing and math skills only. Once students have the stable proficient background subjects can we expect them to understand the content areas of social studies, science, foreign languages, and other critical subjects.

    Teachers and parents expectations of high performance are the answer.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2011

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